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Sub perks...what kind of things would make traditionalists happy?


LordArtemis

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Personally I think that they need to come up with something that is an actual reward for being a sub, not a punishment for not subbing. I really like that they gave F2P people the option to unlock set amount of credits from their escrow. Removing such restrictions that in essence are just punishment for non-subs and not really a "perk" for subbing I think is a first step, then replacing them with actual perks (like lower mod removal costs, better vendor sell prices etc.).

 

Perhaps though the real problem is that they're trying to balance a sub model and F2P model but not really succeeding at either (F2P/Preferred is too restrictive, subbing doesn't really offer perks). Thus maybe the best thing to do would be to axe the sub model entirely. Give current subs unlocks that will permanently unlock smaller things like credit wallet, unlimited med probes (and all current forever unlocks like artifact equipment) etc. Sell permanent unlocks that do this stuff on the CM for everyone else. Fold all other minor miscellaneous perks into preferred as default perks that come with that account type. Offer a CM package that unlocks WZ, space, FP, Ops etc. for an entire month at 10 USD (in essence offer a pack that provides all the perks not automatically included in Preferred status for a price slightly less than a current sub). FP, WZ, space, Ops weekly authorizations would still be buy able independently like currently for maximum flexibility.

 

If they did the above they wouldn't have to screw around with the sub/preferred nonsense and would instead be able to focus on just two account types (preferred and pure F2P) and by offering a monthly unlock pack that grants access to everything not included in Preferred status by default or a separate permanent unlock they'd be able continue giving people the full access sub experience. This method would also grant them the ability to offer an expensive permanent unlock package that would in essence be functionally identical to a lifetime subscription.

 

Or maybe they could go all the way the other way, get rid of f2p, preferred, and the market entirely, and put things into the game at a pace that would make it worth 50 cents a day.

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This is not what I was talking about though...I read it in the forums just as F2P was being brought on, that we would have free access to all future content, baring expansions....

There is a reason they said "content and future updates" rather than "future content and future updates."

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I think what I would love the most as perk of being subbed.

 

1. Reduce repairs on like minimum

2. Better selling to vendor (junk stuff)

 

And most of all I would love if Subbed player would get a free lvl 50/55 set of gear.

 

(Like it used to be Recruit) but give now PvE type of gear (or both and we can choose)

 

that would be epic incencitive to sub for me.

 

But I am currently subbed for 2 months remaining then probably break tillDecember.

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honestly i dont need anything, im happy paying £8:99 an just playing

 

I agree...having said that I would not turn down some extra coins once in a while....or I really did used to like the sub rewards in SWG...mentioned in the OP. I had an extensive collection of holo statues and this was nice as you could essentially choose which you wanted from the list each time you hit a subscriber milestone :)

 

Driz

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No disrespect LA... but this thread is one of those "bottomless pits" for special interests to ply their... "special interests". :)

 

Subs already get access that is denied non-subs.

The game is already loaded with perky things inside.

Subs have received a number of little perks here and there over the life of the game so far.

We as subscribing players are only going to get perks that Bioware decides they want to give us. Sub perks are not democratically elected by the player base of any MMO.

 

Why is it that subscribers now need/want/demand "things" above and beyond their subscription content access?

 

F2P/Freemium is a business model. The dominant business model in the genre now. Players are allowed to make choices as to how they want to access content and pay for that access. Some content is free, some is not. Different MMOs do it a bit differently.. but they all run on the same fundamentals.

 

Traditiojnalists (and I agree with your core definition) need to either embrace the business model or admit they cannot embrace it and find something that better meets their needs/wants that they can embrace.

 

Don't get me wrong.. free perks are nice.. but I don't expect them, and I don't feel other players should either. Enjoy them when they drop... but to demand, anticipate, or fixate on them is silly IMO.

Edited by Andryah
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I think the biggest thing they could do to boost subscription attractiveness, and retention, is to honor the originally stated wording of what a subscription would cover... all playable content (expansions, races, classes, etc) should be included.

 

That would make having to pay extra for fluff far easier to swallow, and would probably result in more CM sales.

 

I don't recall they ever said that expansions would be included.. No MMO that I know of includes expansions with a subscription.. They are still paid for separately.. ROHC was extremely cheap when compared to the expansions of other games.. Especially if you were a subscriber as we got discount.. Updates and patches are a different story and those are included here free of charge to everyone.. Subscriber or not..

 

The Cathar were free to subscribers.. We could use our monthly grant of free coins to pay it.. Which I did.. All playable content is included..

 

I see no problem paying for some fluff items.. I would like there to be a more even balance between what you can earn in the game and what you can buy on the CM..

 

I feel that a lot of potential content is lost by putting everything in the CM..

Edited by MajikMyst
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No disrespect LA... but this thread is one of those "bottomless pits" for special interests to ply their... "special interests". :)

 

Subs already get access that is denied non-subs.

The game is already loaded with perky things inside.

Subs have received a number of little perks here and there over the life of the game so far.

We as subscribing players are only going to get perks that Bioware decides they want to give us. Sub perks are not democratically elected by the player base of any MMO.

 

Why is it that subscribers now need/want/demand "things" above and beyond their subscription content access?

 

F2P/Freemium is a business model. The dominant business model in the genre now. Players are allowed to make choices as to how they want to access content and pay for that access. Some content is free, some is not. Different MMOs do it a bit differently.. but they all run on the same fundamentals.

 

Traditiojnalists (and I agree with your core definition) need to either embrace the business model or admit they cannot embrace it and find something that better meets their needs/wants that they can embrace.

 

Don't get me wrong.. free perks are nice.. but I don't expect them, and I don't feel other players should either. Enjoy them when they drop... but to demand, anticipate, or fixate on them is silly IMO.

 

^^^

 

Well stated as usual.. :)

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Traditiojnalists (and I agree with your core definition) need to either embrace the business model or admit they cannot embrace it and find something that better meets their needs/wants that they can embrace.

 

^^^^ The whole post, but especially this. The entire thread is about what you think Bioware ought to give you for free. It's like a bunch of kids in the candy store with nickels in their hands telling the shopkeeper that if he doesn't give you a free tootsie roll pop for being in his store you're going to walk! There is literally no end to this litany of free stuff you want in order to feel "appreciated." It's naïve and laughable, but for kids who don't have to support themselves anyway, understandable. They've ALWAYS gotten everything in their lives for free. Why not this?

 

Don't take this personally if it does not apply to you. If you're 64 years old, I don't mean you. Look at the ESRB rating for this game. THAT is the target demographic. THAT'S the market they are going after. I don't fit it; you don't fit it, but generally speaking, most players DO fit it. And their desire for free candy is insatiable.

 

But the fact is nothing will satisfy you. Some of the suggestions here have ALREADY been done, e.g. "free" cartel coins. Did we not just get 500? And what, pray tell, was the reaction? Criticism. And that's exactly what would happen if Bioware gave you faster speeders, 2xP, an armor set, or whatever else you can dream up on this thread. Most of you would be claiming the freebie was a "slap in the face" and you would remain "unappreciated" and that SWTOR was "going down the tubes!"

 

Whether you actually use your own money to pay or not, if this game is not worth the 50 cents a day to you, what you should consider doing is moving on. You don't really expect to be playing this game at 64 do you? So establish an exit strategy and prepare to leave.

 

For me it's about a year, I think, unless there is a serious expansion, for which I would expect to pay full price. That's just because I've grown weary of the same planetary quests, no matter what class I'm in, and I'm not really interested in all the story lines. But this is not a criticism of Bioware; it's just a recognition that this is not my real life and somewhere, the Holodeck awaits, that is, if I'm not already on it.

 

So what should the shopkeeper say to the miscreants trying to shake him down? What should the parent say to the kid who has everything, but wants more?

 

"I've given you everything you need to be successful and make your own choices. I never promised you a mansion. You don't have a trust fund. This is all you're getting. The answer is: No."

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No disrespect LA... but this thread is one of those "bottomless pits" for special interests to ply their... "special interests". :)

 

Subs already get access that is denied non-subs.

The game is already loaded with perky things inside.

Subs have received a number of little perks here and there over the life of the game so far.

We as subscribing players are only going to get perks that Bioware decides they want to give us. Sub perks are not democratically elected by the player base of any MMO.

 

Why is it that subscribers now need/want/demand "things" above and beyond their subscription content access?

 

F2P/Freemium is a business model. The dominant business model in the genre now. Players are allowed to make choices as to how they want to access content and pay for that access. Some content is free, some is not. Different MMOs do it a bit differently.. but they all run on the same fundamentals.

 

Traditiojnalists (and I agree with your core definition) need to either embrace the business model or admit they cannot embrace it and find something that better meets their needs/wants that they can embrace.

 

Don't get me wrong.. free perks are nice.. but I don't expect them, and I don't feel other players should either. Enjoy them when they drop... but to demand, anticipate, or fixate on them is silly IMO.

 

None taken. You make a good point of course, the discussion really has no end, and to what purpose naturally.

 

I can only give my personal perspective on this...

 

I think I get enough. Though I would like to see more features added to the game (if anyone follows my suggestions they have some idea what I would like to see) I feel the game is a reasonably good value for subscribers at present.

 

I did not feel this way at launch.

 

To others reading this comment (I don't have to explain this to Andryah) this is just for ME, from my perspective. I can't speak for others.

 

I am very happy with the direction the game is going at present, and reasonably satisfied with it's current state.

 

Now, perhaps I am serving the wrong crowd if I look to what could be given as further perks to subs. I would love to see a legacy cargo bank as I have suggested, but felt this should be a feature for ALL players.

 

I do not consider myself one of the folks that looks for more, but decided that perhaps player concerns in this respect should perhaps be addressed.

 

For me, I think a milestone system (as done in other games) would be a healthy subscription encouragement system....and perhaps would also throw some candy at subs.

 

But your statement rings true to me.

 

You know Andryah, we are moving dangerously close to having the same opinions....

 

How do you feel about pie?

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^^^^ The whole post, but especially this. The entire thread is about what you think Bioware ought to give you for free. It's like a bunch of kids in the candy store with nickels in their hands telling the shopkeeper that if he doesn't give you a free tootsie roll pop for being in his store you're going to walk! There is literally no end to this litany of free stuff you want in order to feel "appreciated." It's naïve and laughable, but for kids who don't have to support themselves anyway, understandable. They've ALWAYS gotten everything in their lives for free. Why not this?

 

Don't take this personally if it does not apply to you. If you're 64 years old, I don't mean you. Look at the ESRB rating for this game. THAT is the target demographic. THAT'S the market they are going after. I don't fit it; you don't fit it, but generally speaking, most players DO fit it. And their desire for free candy is insatiable.

 

But the fact is nothing will satisfy you. Some of the suggestions here have ALREADY been done, e.g. "free" cartel coins. Did we not just get 500? And what, pray tell, was the reaction? Criticism. And that's exactly what would happen if Bioware gave you faster speeders, 2xP, an armor set, or whatever else you can dream up on this thread. Most of you would be claiming the freebie was a "slap in the face" and you would remain "unappreciated" and that SWTOR was "going down the tubes!"

 

Whether you actually use your own money to pay or not, if this game is not worth the 50 cents a day to you, what you should consider doing is moving on. You don't really expect to be playing this game at 64 do you? So establish an exit strategy and prepare to leave.

 

For me it's about a year, I think, unless there is a serious expansion, for which I would expect to pay full price. That's just because I've grown weary of the same planetary quests, no matter what class I'm in, and I'm not really interested in all the story lines. But this is not a criticism of Bioware; it's just a recognition that this is not my real life and somewhere, the Holodeck awaits, that is, if I'm not already on it.

 

So what should the shopkeeper say to the miscreants trying to shake him down? What should the parent say to the kid who has everything, but wants more?

 

"I've given you everything you need to be successful and make your own choices. I never promised you a mansion. You don't have a trust fund. This is all you're getting. The answer is: No."

 

To be fair, do you feel that includes the OP?

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The entire thread is about what you think Bioware ought to give you for free.

 

no.

 

this thread is about what bioware ought to give people for $15 a month, that they cannot get while playing for free or paying less for individual unlocks as they go.

 

see the difference?

Edited by Jeweledleah
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I am very happy with the direction the game is going at present, and reasonably satisfied with it's current state.

 

If by that you mean that the cash shop is becoming the most important and prominent feature of the game and that essential parts of the game (ability delay, class balance, ranked warzones) have been neglected for over a year in favor of the Cartel Market, then sure.....

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Subs already get access that is denied non-subs.

The game is already loaded with perky things inside.

Subs have received a number of little perks here and there over the life of the game so far.

We as subscribing players are only going to get perks that Bioware decides they want to give us. Sub perks are not democratically elected by the player base of any MMO.

 

Why is it that subscribers now need/want/demand "things" above and beyond their subscription content access?

 

Traditiojnalists (and I agree with your core definition) need to either embrace the business model or admit they cannot embrace it and find something that better meets their needs/wants that they can embrace.

 

Don't get me wrong.. free perks are nice.. but I don't expect them, and I don't feel other players should either. Enjoy them when they drop... but to demand, anticipate, or fixate on them is silly IMO.

 

I believe that that the title of the thread is a little bit misleading as most people are far from demanding free stuff from Bioware. It's not about asking for X or Y item, more like making sure that the player feels that his time devoted to the game feels worthwhile. (Although, certain small gestures can go a long way towards making the players feel appreciated. Did you know that Guild Wars gave (and gives) birthday presents to every character on its "creation day" every year? The older your character is, the more cool presents you get and Guild Wars is a completely free-to-play game.)

 

I assume when you said "the game is loaded with perky things inside", you meant the Legacy system. The Legacy is equally available to both subs and F2P players as it should be, so it's not a sub perk. Thing is, the Legacy system is completely pointless, irrelevant and invalidated now that you can just buy your way through it. That makes neither subs nor F2P players happy. As for those "little perks that subs received", please elaborate because I have no idea, which perks you're referring to, unless you're counting the F2P restrictions but those aren't perks, those are features that subscribers always had.

 

So how to make subs feel appreciated? Not (just) by giving them free items. Expand the Legacy system and make it relevant again. Make it so that you can't just buy your way through every requirement. Keep the requirements consistent and don't make ridiculously high gates for non-CC purchases (like Treek). THIS will give everyone a goal to work towards. Legacy is the key to making your subscribers feel appreciated. As long as you ignore the Legacy, you're ignoring the players.

 

I know the Legacy system is from before F2P but I see no reason not to overhaul and redesign the Legacy system. It should offer a completely viable alternative to the cash shop for those people who want to actually play the game and earn those rewards with in-game effort instead of out-of-game money. Make requirements consistent for both CC and credit unlocks. Right now, using CCs to unlock a Legacy 40 feature is like going to the marathon run with a car...

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A few notes before I begin.

 

1) Traditionalists, IMO, are players that do not generally care for the F2P/Market system of rewards for RL money. They generally believe that something in the game should be earned by in game means, reward without challenge (or effort, as some have coined) is not healthy for a game. They could also be called hardcore players.

 

What you call "traditional", I call self centered individuals with control issues. I do not make that contention as an insult, but a statement of observation. There is nothing at all preventing them from doing as they may please in this game, but the desire of some is to force everyone to play the game as they want them to play so as to feed some inborn control issue.

 

This cannot be accomplished. Some of us have lives outside of the game, jobs, families, run a business, some do not have time to farm endlessly and mindlessly for items that can be easily bought by other means (Cartel etc.). With that I will suggest that there is nothing that can be done "for" these types, as "their game" is readily available for them already, but will never be acquiesced by the general public as a whole.

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If by that you mean that the cash shop is becoming the most important and prominent feature of the game and that essential parts of the game (ability delay, class balance, ranked warzones) have been neglected for over a year in favor of the Cartel Market, then sure.....

 

This however, is a valid contention. There are many issues in game that are in need of address but seem to be swept aside to allow focus on the next cartel release. In fact, the cartel market has received more updates, in its short life, then has the game.

 

Understandably, the cartel market has saved this game, but still there is the need to focus on bugs and issues affecting the actual game as well.

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This however, is a valid contention. There are many issues in game that are in need of address but seem to be swept aside to allow focus on the next cartel release. In fact, the cartel market has received more updates, in its short life, then has the game.

 

Understandably, the cartel market has saved this game, but still there is the need to focus on bugs and issues affecting the actual game as well.

 

"Saved" is an overstatement. "Bought them some time" is probably more accurate.

 

Based purely on observations, the new car smell of the CM is already wearing off.

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This however, is a valid contention. There are many issues in game that are in need of address but seem to be swept aside to allow focus on the next cartel release. In fact, the cartel market has received more updates, in its short life, then has the game.

 

Understandably, the cartel market has saved this game, but still there is the need to focus on bugs and issues affecting the actual game as well.

Omg ..you are the first person to say what I have been saying in terms of the cartel market has and will get more updates than the game ever will.

I salute you!!!

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Perhaps another approach to this very good discussion is to simply look at what Bioware tangibly does to make the subscription offering more interesting. Look at the content that's offered exclusively for subscribers vs non subs and i guess take a reading of what BIOWARE's intention regarding this is. People can make noise all they want, but its a much more straightforward approach to look at how the offerings have landed and make the best judgement on what's worth it and not. Why is it such a problem to drop to preferred if the sub values don't add up for you personally?

 

I do come from a typically unheard perspective though. I'm a habitually preferred player, with pretty much all the cartel unlocks on my account, and in general.. (with the state of my account and how i play) its actually a pretty bad deal for me to sub vs buying unlocks ad hoc. I actually look at subbing as one extra way to do the cartel coin stuff.. that's how i ended up here.. I added up stipend+my escrow needs+i wanted to stock up on security key fleet passes.. and it was a done deal to sub for a month.

 

I'm very happy to have removed the need for some perceived value every month as i pay bioware when I want to.. and to bioware's credit that's reasonably often.. (genius that collections UI)...

 

So the point is.. the current offering is how it is.. Its up to us to determine what is good value and what is not.. Why whine to change something that bioware has in decided to place the offerings and their development in the way they have and are currently doing? Id suggest an alternate approach would be just to do what feels right given the structure we have now.. It starts off with us paying them LESS real money its not that evil.

 

Lastly, from lurking on these forums for the past 7 or 8 months (with no ability to post) it makes subscribers sound so very very terrible.. they have the gall too call people who want things for free 'entitled', yet if you compare the 2 camps the volume of entitlement whining coming from subs eclipses what anyone who's made a f2p/preferred suggestion..

 

Anyways, just some random thoughts.

 

P.S. My reading from the above is that bioware considers subs legacy revenue from a former model, but have switched to a new model of packs and dlc (hang on, they actually did this!). While they don't want to loose subs (who would want to loose a stable income stream), just from their updates to the game id doubt if bioware think in that 'traditionalist' way themselves anymore.

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Well, keep in mind that my positive comments about the direction of the game and it's current state (not exactly glowing, but satisfactory for now) is just my personal take. There is no need to try and diminish the meaning or impact of my opinion in this respect with pointed sarcasm.

 

My opinion is simply just not that important.

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You just won't be happy until the game is dead and buried, will you?

 

Uh, no. That would be a bad thing.

 

There aren't just two positions you know? The two options aren't "Biodrone" or "hater".

 

Besides that, you are the one who tells everyone with any criticism of the game to quit. So there.

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Uh, no. That would be a bad thing.

 

There aren't just two positions you know? The two options aren't "Biodrone" or "hater".

 

Besides that, you are the one who tells everyone with any criticism of the game to quit. So there.

You should give me all your stuff and quit. It's for the baby seals.

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