branmakmuffin Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Think they are pointing out that the word is queue. Que dices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockaday Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Huh? A non trinity is when everyone can do whatever they want as far I know. Not in the slightest. Before WoW promoted selfishness (please someone correct me if other games before WoW used the trinity system, I really don't know Before EQ1), MMOs had Four Arch-Types, the Tank as we know it, the DPS as we know it, and the Healer as we know it. WoW eliminated the fourth type, Support! Think Bards. A bard (or enchanter, but i'm better with bards) Suplied lower DPS to the group than a dps (from themselves anyway) But supplied vital things. They managed YOUR resources, with out a bard, your mana would / could run out -fast- so they gave you more, increased your regen etc. They also helped with small heals, and GREAT buffs to stats, including armour, base stats, and resists. But this made players play like a group...which todays WoW kiddies cannot do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectreclees Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) The system you are thinking of is now called a Quadrinity where you have Tank, Dps, Healer, Support. Trinity is now known as: Tank, Dps, Healer Non Trinity is: No limits. I get what you are saying but it's changed over the years and has become socially accepted among mmo developers that this is the new system that mostly all mmos choose from. I don't want to speak for everyone on this. Majority of links and info I can find on the subject derive that the system I just mentioned is what most mmos are using today. Older MMOS like EQ use a Quadrinity. Which is what it was renamed to because it involves 4 roles and not 3. SWTOR is a soft trinity. WoW is a hard trinity. GW2 is a non trinity. WoW was the first to enforce a Trinity on players afaik. Edited July 5, 2013 by spectreclees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Not in the slightest. Before WoW promoted selfishness (please someone correct me if other games before WoW used the trinity system, I really don't know Before EQ1), MMOs had Four Arch-Types, the Tank as we know it, the DPS as we know it, and the Healer as we know it. WoW eliminated the fourth type, Support! Think Bards. A bard (or enchanter, but i'm better with bards) Suplied lower DPS to the group than a dps (from themselves anyway) But supplied vital things. They managed YOUR resources, with out a bard, your mana would / could run out -fast- so they gave you more, increased your regen etc. They also helped with small heals, and GREAT buffs to stats, including armour, base stats, and resists. But this made players play like a group...which todays WoW kiddies cannot do. LotRO and DDO have classes which do this "support role." So maybe it's just TOR that does not have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockaday Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) SWTOR is a soft trinity. Disagree. If you're a hybrid you don't belong in any serious content, at all. Let a lone bring more than one tank or heal, that is just bad news. But yeah, the quad, better system imho. But this is ok, just kinda boring lol. Edit: Not counting raid content, ofcourse you bring two tanks and 2 heals. Edited July 5, 2013 by Hockaday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectreclees Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Disagree. If you're a hybrid you don't belong in any serious content, at all. Let a lone bring more than one tank or heal, that is just bad news. But yeah, the quad, better system imho. But this is ok, just kinda boring lol. Edit: Not counting raid content, ofcourse you bring two tanks and 2 heals. For a while, you could get away with hybrids in this game. It eventually was turned to a hard trinity though, you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterBabylon Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) They got rid of it for many reasons, difficulty of class balance being one of them. And then that there were only so many bards before a raid fills up with them, like healers and tanks. DPS needed more ways to differentiate themselves which was why the Bard got chopped up and fed to the other classes. Later on came the push for raids bringing X of one class and Y of another and turning down the rest once over the quota because of the utility being exceeded. Or some raids falling apart because of a certain buff missing. Or a class totally not being brought along because another class did all of its jobs better. That led to the other game going for all classes having some kind of non-unique buff. SWTOR has this in the form of the 4 class buffs when there are 8 ACs, and later being able to apply a different buff because of your legacy. Yay redundancy. There is an MMO in the market that still has support classes, but its pretty hardcore in terms of in game effort on top of requiring a lot of p2w, even more than the rest of the game. Playing that "Bard" class is pretty fun in a group but really stressful when solo; you have non-existent mitigation, have limited self-heal, and on top of that the dps of a wet noodle. And if you have a bad group, you pretty much brought nothing because everyone AOEs and breaks all your CC. Support classes are great on paper and ridiculously OP in pvp in the right hands, but if the implementation is bad you end up with no one playing the class, those who do complain that its non-functional, and no one else having queue pops because once the tank, heal, dps is filled (which is no mean feat as 10% players tank, 10% heal, and 80-100% dps) the CC class holds the GF back. Or rather, dps have INSANE queues (all fighting for 1 spot instead of the 2 we have now; other games have 3 dps slots per group). Btw, now that I mentioned all this, a "support class" in SWTOR really sounds like a Shadowsin. Spiky tank, purple speghetti dps, limited self heals, great CC... ...except it doesn't have enough CC to function as a CC monster. Edited July 5, 2013 by MeisterBabylon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachenko_Yuri Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 There is a severe lack of 'something-to-do' if you are not on your healer or tank toon, do not feel like grinding daily's...again, and are not in a raid. This is mostly just PVE (personally, I stopped PVP'n awhile back...i go in spurts). What can we do about this, folks? (BW) Hitting a literacy class to realize that it isn't writtien " daily's " but " dailies " , might take some time off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Disagree. If you're a hybrid you don't belong in any serious content, at all. Let a lone bring more than one tank or heal, that is just bad news. But yeah, the quad, better system imho. But this is ok, just kinda boring lol. Edit: Not counting raid content, ofcourse you bring two tanks and 2 heals. according to the thread in flashpoint and operations forums, certain hybrids actually perform better than pure specs. so its not entirely cut and dry. also - the problem with old school MMO's is directly related to what you'd consider to be their advantage. they require grouping to accomplish anything. and contrary to popular belief, this system was moved away from NOT because of "kiddies" but rather because of adults with tight schedules, who don't have the luxury of spending first hour or 2 of their game time just getting the group together. that said... I personally wouldn't mind having more variety to roles, provided soloing effectively would still be possible like it is right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans-Olof Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Yeah i have realized how this problem really ruins the game. Ever since i got to lvl 55 i have havent done anything besides doing dailys when im so bored i cant play any other game. all i have in my mission log are some heroic 4 that i will probably never find a group for, and flashpoint that i never find a group for in the so called group finder. On the other hand i dont regret that i paid for this game because leveling my first char was great fun most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosmos Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 Hitting a literacy class to realize that it isn't writtien " daily's " but " dailies " , might take some time off Hey man, i'm an educated individual - but lucky for me this is the internet and an mmo forum. I really have no need to properly check my spelling - especially when I post something at like 7am my time with 2 sips of coffee in me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atramar Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 space missions and practicing DPS rotations on my ship. that's what I do. or run some daily quests for money browse web thinking of ways to troll my fiancee.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachenko_Yuri Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Hey man, i'm an educated individual - but lucky for me this is the internet and an mmo forum. I really have no need to properly check my spelling - especially when I post something at like 7am my time with 2 sips of coffee in me. Yeah and that was just for a laugh, no hostility intended I guess that's just dps life. Although if would be cool to have a queue monitor to know exactly how many people are ahead of us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burtlebe Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I have a guild so finding a group isn't really a issue. But I am also a altoholic so I have all 16 ACs. What I did was start grouping up with 3 others who were altoholics also. We take turns filling the various roles so we are able to gear out all our toons. I also have legacy gear that I use to send my alts gear. I currently have a guardian heading to 55 and at 52 she has full hazmat and a good bit of 162 gear in her bank due to using legacy gear. We run ops 3 days a week on Republic side and 2 days on imp side. Whenever possible we try to do 16 mans to get as many dps as we can into it but People in my guild have learned to level up multiple roles to ensure that all their characters get a chance to run and get gear. My suggestion would be to work within your guild to make yourself 3 good friends and then help each other get geared up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpactHound Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 GW2 isn't lacking a trinity, it just makes content possible without a dedicated tank/healer. You still need to heal or mitigate the incoming damage so it's worth your while to have a mace/shield guardian with ta proper talent spec, but you have a reasonabl echance of clearing dungeons without if you have warriors specced into healing shouts and the elementalist is willing to tap water spells once in while in between damage. Most aren't. Most people hate on GW2 dungeons because they don't like the pits or traps that instantly kill you, and assume it's bad design. I actually like them because they're similar to the design you'd see in traditional D&D, but the general population sucks at them because they actually require you to play halfway decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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