Vexas Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 It's important, ultimately, that they include this but they were smart not to do it at launch. Get as many people playing as possible AND THEN cater to the min/max people at the very top... because once you start catering to those people (and it's important that you do, don't get me wrong, I'm one of them) you've opened up an entire other bag of worms from a balance/game development standpoint. While that's all well and good, it just is something that I'm GUESSING they didn't want to tackle while spinning all the other game launch plates. Once a few more Operations are in and they get more data across the spectrum, they'll bite the bullet and implement the necessary features for the real raider... I mean... "operators"? Anyway, this is EXACTLY the kind of continued long term support this game will need to truly succeed, and I hope they do it. For now, there are probably other more immediate concerns and I think they're smart to focus on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 This is hilarious. Remember folks: Removing someone from your group because you don't feel like carrying him is elitism. Depends what you aim for. End game is so lousy and not very complex in this game atm but when they fic UI and gameplay pugs that allows them o create more complex boss fights that takes almost flawless fight from everyone there aint room anymore for carrying people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMarvel Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 You are fighting a boss for 2 hours, and someone keeps killing the wrong thing, but you aren't sure who's doing it because it's a 16 person op group and it's chaos. What do you do? In your world, you quit trying because you don't know who's failing. In my world, I check the log and see who killed the wrong thing, and tell them to stop or remove them from the group. Are you worried that you'll be that guy or what? It's not fair to the other 15 people who have no idea who's doing the totally wrong thing.understandable but its annoying for elitist jerks which seems like you to tell us we cant run an op because we dont know how the fight works.. everyones gotta learn sometime so by them putting these in the games they are taking the fun out and making it competitive.. good job bioware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swirly Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 The only catering that will be done, sir, is the catering of "nerf this buff me" crowd and cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BegaTasty Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Cute.... You know half the games you listed no one plays, the other half were so broken no one played past their trial accounts. Look I'm glad you know your job. I'm glad your so awesome that you don't require a little bit of help. I'll admit it, I'm not. I like the help, I like the training wheels. I like the warm fuzzy I get when I look at the meter and say "oh thank god, we've been throwing ourselves at this boss for 2 hours and keep failing. I know I'm pulling my part... what can I do to improve it?" So yeah... cute... very cute... Passive aggressive little insults, really??.... are we not past gradeschool yet?. None plays? Daoc is rated as the #1 all time RVR game ever made for MMO's... was not remotely broken, its claled diversity, something you lads have not really been introduced to. Vanguard, amazing game, fell over because the devs making it were out of their depth.First MMO since daoc to go back to how MMO's were an what made them great. AC, HUGE game, EQ's rival an it did really well an in fact is still going 11 years later. AOC, eh fun little game....for a while. FFXI HUGE pve game, I am surprised as a raid type you dont worship it as the nirvana of raiding, concierge how difficult it was. To be honest I am not gonna keep going, you either get it or you dont. I am not a raider personally, I detest an have nothing but contempt for the entire system an what it breeds. I prefer to kill them, so I don't need your scripts these days to know my job as you call it. If you feel you need them to play a silly computer game, that is quite frankly so easy even a chimp can excel at it, then more power to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeybusiness Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 a CB log is what i was missing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_Nox Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 If you don't want to carry people, as it's ignorantly worded, go play CoD or BF3. RPGs are about cooperation, understanding, and friendly fun. People who ruin that honestly shouldn't be above ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DThoran Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Gearscore and the elitism that followed with it (disguised as a genuine concern to "be the best we can be") completely ruined wow. It made it so some people who may not have had the time to play or perhaps just simply were not super skilled at their class, simply never, ever got a chance to even experience certain content (that they pay for too) at ALL in any respect. Now I realize you want a group to be good and make the fight easier, and more likely to succeed, I get it, but when the game takes on a "job" or "work" aspect and becomes so deadly serious that it ceases to be a game, or becomes completely inaccessible to some players because of some added bias, then why play? It's not a fun time or a game anymore, it's a chore. For instance, say you require a 5000 gearscore for a certain raid, and a player comes up with 4500, he would be completely snubbed, he would not get to experience the content, even tho in reality everyone knows he would be perfectly fine, even if only a moderately skilled player in 4000 gear. It created a level of elitism, snobbery, and discrimination that I hope never makes it into another "game". Before the rise of such snobbery, players used to go out of their way to help out or help gear an underdeveloped player. You know, to be social, and play the game, and actually help other people and have fun. Isn't that why it's a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BegaTasty Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Gearscore and the elitism that followed with it (disguised as a genuine concern to "be the best we can be") completely ruined wow. It made it so some people who may not have had the time to play or perhaps just simply were not super skilled at their class, simply never, ever got a chance to even experience certain content (that they pay for too) at ALL in any respect. Now I realize you want a group to be good and make the fight easier, and more likely to succeed, I get it, but when the game takes on a "job" or "work" aspect and becomes so deadly serious that it ceases to be a game, or becomes completely inaccessible to some players because of some added bias, then why play? It's not a fun time or a game anymore, it's a chore. For instance, say you require a 5000 gearscore for a certain raid, and a player comes up with 4500, he would be completely snubbed, he would not get to experience the content, even tho in reality everyone knows he would be perfectly fine, even if only a moderately skilled player in 4000 gear. It created a level of elitism, snobbery, and discrimination that I hope never makes it into another "game". Before the rise of such snobbery, players used to go out of their way to help out or help gear an underdeveloped player. You know, to be social, and play the game, and actually help other people and have fun. Isn't that why it's a game? wow playerbase doesn't understand social gaming mate, they never have, I find it best to ignore them most of time, it jsut saves having to listen to how great they are, an how they alone managed to excel in arena etc etc etc.... They certainly don't understand helping people in the world, or just doing things for sake of doing them. Take for instance the joke that is world pvp in tor, BG account traders an botters say its all the "pvp" you need, yet dare mention the removal of BG shinys to bring it in line with world pvp, an they turn feral....thats the gaming community your dealing with today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_Nox Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Many first gen wow'ers, myself included, are not of the same type of person that has been playing that game the last 5 years after it became raid or die, and BGs or stupid arenas as the only PvP you could find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcova Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 understandable but its annoying for elitist jerks which seems like you to tell us we cant run an op because we dont know how the fight works.. everyones gotta learn sometime so by them putting these in the games they are taking the fun out and making it competitive.. good job bioware I don't think anybody has said you can't run an op.... just that you can't run the op with them if you refuse to try hard and take criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcova Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 If you don't want to carry people, as it's ignorantly worded, go play CoD or BF3. RPGs are about cooperation, understanding, and friendly fun. People who ruin that honestly shouldn't be above ground. And part of working together is doing your part of the working not doing as little as you possibly can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raximillian Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Not too fond of them, but not a game breaker either. Fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riotus Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I don't think I've ever, ever heard of a guild that requires any mod. Raid teams, yes, guilds? No. so youve only heard of fail guilds then. Any guild worth half their spit will have requirements for voicechat, raid alerts, dps meters. These are all basic things in engame raids and no serious raid guild would hinder themselves by not using it. Theres only 2 reasons not to use the best tools available to you: 1. being a baddie. If your a baddie and you know it, you want to hide your numbers. I think this is the main reason most of you haters dont want combat logs so you can let others do the work for you. 2 lazyness. it pretty much falls into number 1 but i have met a few good players who were just to lazy to install addons, however their game would have been much improved with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuno Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I personally would like to know how good/bad my dps is compared to otherclasses, if it stinks i would ask those who were doing better for advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyranox Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Where is the FP finder over damage meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maolmuaidh Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 i've been playing everquest 2 for 7 years,and voice chat,dps meters and timers are vital for successful top end raiding,custom ui like profit are also pretty useful.SWTOR is way off that kinda level yet but hopefully it will get there sometime,have my doubts though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralaii Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 hey guys be advised someone who doesnt want meters is going through and reporting every single post in this thread of people who are voicing their opinions who want the meters. Apparently, saying the word "dumb" in your post is enough to warrant a warning from these mods (***?) that I posted a week or two ago. Thats pretty pathetic whoever you are, and the mods should stop sending warnings just to make reporters happy, this forum needs a remake and some real mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nylirr Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Great, looking forward to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Itharius Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 hey guys be advised someone who doesnt want meters is going through and reporting every single post in this thread of people who are voicing their opinions who want the meters. Apparently, saying the word "dumb" in your post is enough to warrant a warning from these mods (***?) that I posted a week or two ago. Thats pretty pathetic whoever you are, and the mods should stop sending warnings just to make reporters happy, this forum needs a remake and some real mods. I tend to go through topics flagging posts too when I'm angry. They seem to just moderate any post that's flagged for any reason. It's actually pretty funny, you just have to not give anyone any possible reason for flagging your post in order for it to survive nerd rage onslaughts. Someone can flag this post for off-topic discussion or for insulting other players by saying "nerd rage." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcova Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 hey guys be advised someone who doesnt want meters is going through and reporting every single post in this thread of people who are voicing their opinions who want the meters. Apparently, saying the word "dumb" in your post is enough to warrant a warning from these mods (***?) that I posted a week or two ago. Thats pretty pathetic whoever you are, and the mods should stop sending warnings just to make reporters happy, this forum needs a remake and some real mods. I'm not really surprised, children can be that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabrixmgp Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Guess people dont understand these are necessary for class balancing. Kinda hard for community to give feedback on their class if they dont even know how much damage they are doing or taking or how much healing they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHierophant Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Think of this like Luke in New Hope making the trench run. Obi-wan tells him to trust the force, and he (AMG!!) switches off his targeting computer. He immediately hears a worried cry come through his headset asking if something is wrong. He trusts the Force instead. By the standards of the meter authoritarians, Luke is either a newb, afraid of having his performance criticized, or wants to freeload off his fellow starfighter pilots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kotorspartan Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Exactly. The damage meter always goes to the "I can instantly decide if I'll even try a group with X person only if he is using the Y build with the Z rotation. Any sort of deviation is heresy. If I am a charitable elitist, then I will attempt to reform the heathens and if they prove resistant to my benevolence, mock them and degrade them in public. The ONLY metric that matters is: Did the group succeed? Define succeed- Did our flashpoint/operation drag on for hours because somebody refuses to use damage meters/addons or did we replace them with a competent player who took a few simple steps to prove they can add something to the group and we had a smooth run? Edited January 3, 2012 by kotorspartan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcapowne Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Think of this like Luke in New Hope making the trench run. Obi-wan tells him to trust the force, and he (AMG!!) switches off his targeting computer. He immediately hears a worried cry come through his headset asking if something is wrong. He trusts the Force instead. By the standards of the meter authoritarians, Luke is either a newb, afraid of having his performance criticized, or wants to freeload off his fellow starfighter pilots. Hate to break it to you RP **** but the force isn't real... Any team (work/sport/games) serious about achieving performance metrics needs a way to report on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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