DarthDano Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 This may well be true. Let's agree that it is. So what? The whole notion of paid subscribers = success/failure is moot now. With F2P, Preferred, and Cartel Market the financial security of this game is only partially based on subscriptions. They've already noted how well the game is doing since the switch. So, we've gotten a bit sidetracked. The point, as it relates to server transfers, is that subscriptions have nothing to do with it. It also doesn't matter if a few people unsubscribe because most people will not unsubscribe over this. OF those that do, a portion will keep playing, just as preferred. They will buy CM stuff either directly or indirectly. The game will be fine. They may very well be fine. Hopefully the Bioware/EA Execs aren't as nonchalantly dismissive as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzel Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Cut the attitude, dude. While you're at it, learn how to read an earnings report. Learn about what companies do report on and what's important to investors. No mention of subscriber numbers. No mention of "original subscribers" (whatever that means). Try again, jack. While I'm here... I don't know you. I don't know what you know about business, though I can make an educated guess. You don't know me. You don't know what I know about business and why I know that you don't know what you're talking about. You can be an educated donkey in your response, but it only shows that you don't know how to defend your position. Ummmm yes they did. You obviously didn't read (or failed to read ((or failed at reading)) the documents that you demanded so furiously. See all the comments from the other people who figured it out? Go ahead. Take a minute to read them. I'll wait... Ooohhhh! Anzel coming through with the documentation. Stuff that in your pipe and smoke it. LOL! Oh yeah! <high five /> 1,700,000 (at launch) - 400,000 (est. trough) = 1,300,000 (lost) 1,300,000 (lost) / 1,700,000 (at launch) = 0.7647 = 76% (lost) I thought that was easy reading... and easy math. I guess stuff like this is just hard for some folks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 You're absolutely right. However; the legacy system had no significance regarding characters on different servers until 1.2, nor was the potential impact of the legacy system divulged. But you cannot claim that the legacy system was not in place at launch, or that you were not aware that your two servers were working toward different legacies. By continuing to build a second legacy on your second server, you chose to have any effort you put into those characters on that server have no impact on your original server's legacy. I can only speak for me, but if I truly wanted to have every character I leveled working toward a single legacy, I would have abandoned the lower characters as soon as I realized that the legacies were different, which would have been at level 1 as the legacy XP bar would have shown a different XP. I can only wonder why you did not do this, but instead chose to continue working on building a second and separate legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I wonder if all the people who are pissed about the transfer charge are aware that a year ago we had free transfers when the servers were merged? It's pretty amazing how when it was in EA's interest to merge servers that I had around 10 characters transferred for free, easily, quickly, and with no glitches. Now that it's a consumer's choice to move, that free service now suddenly is a complex undertaking that costs nearly $20 per character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimG Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I've been hearing a lot of people claiming they're unsubscribing again. Again = every day since launch. People constantly "threaten" to unsub....some people just like or need attention. The game steadily lost players after launch and bounced back with F2P. It's a MMO....eventually people will get burnt out and quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDano Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 But you cannot claim that the legacy system was not in place at launch, or that you were not aware that your two servers were working toward different legacies. By continuing to build a second legacy on your second server, you chose to have any effort you put into those characters on that server have no impact on your original server's legacy. I can only speak for me, but if I truly wanted to have every character I leveled working toward a single legacy, I would have abandoned the lower characters as soon as I realized that the legacies were different, which would have been at level 1 as the legacy XP bar would have shown a different XP. I can only wonder why you did not do this, but instead chose to continue working on building a second and separate legacy. I was well past level one by the time 1.2 and the "entire" legacy system rolled around. I had two republic characters on a separate server because our guild had decided to have our republic guild on one server and our imperial guild on another. So when the "entire" legacy system which eventually impacted characters you may have on separate servers was revealed they had already been unknowingly separated. I knew they would eventually provide server transfers. Didn't think they would make us wait over a year for them, but I knew. I guess I'm just not as quick to abandon a fallen comrade. No but seriously I grew pretty attached to those republic toons I rolled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtkram Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 But you cannot claim that the legacy system was not in place at launch, or that you were not aware that your two servers were working toward different legacies. By continuing to build a second legacy on your second server, you chose to have any effort you put into those characters on that server have no impact on your original server's legacy. I can only speak for me, but if I truly wanted to have every character I leveled working toward a single legacy, I would have abandoned the lower characters as soon as I realized that the legacies were different, which would have been at level 1 as the legacy XP bar would have shown a different XP. I can only wonder why you did not do this, but instead chose to continue working on building a second and separate legacy. honestly, i knew nothing of legacy until they released it. legacy was useless at launch and the game was new, so learning how to play my class was a bigger priority than reading whatever vague speculation there was regarding a legacy bar, which honestly i don't remember at all. i vaguely remember putting in my legacy name, then learning after that how it would appear (the choice between "X the Y Legacy or X Y"). i vaguely remember entering my legacy name a second time too, which i kept on the third server i rolled on. at the time, i was young an naive and believed bioware would not push their customers to quitting. it didn't make sense to me why bioware would want people to quit. it still doesn't make sense to me. i know, there were signs there, like a million people quitting, but i wanted to believe. i also knew that bioware was aware there was a problem. they knew i had to reroll, along with a majority of the people i was playing with. there shouldn't be a question as to whether transferring was a better option, it was just technically infeasible at the time. i thought bioware would try to help if they could, instead of pushing me and numerous others to quit. it's not technically infeasible anymore. they can help now if they choose. about a year and a half too late, but i would still appreciate their help. that would be the right thing to do. how is it that you think it's good for players to be expected to abandon the characters they've started? you know what the problem was. you were there. you know what the problem still is. i understand you want to pay bioware more money. that's fine. i don't. surely you can understand my perspective, and those in this thread that are saying they would like to have their legacies put back together. you can understand that, right? if you tried? is it really just that you want to pay bioware more money, beyond your subscription at a rate that scales higher with the number of characters you have? or is it that you're trying to get rid of the riff raff like me that think there's more to the game than the cartel market? are you worried they could start releasing content and treating their customers with respect if i'm not pushed out? still doesn't make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDano Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 But you cannot claim that the legacy system was not in place at launch, or that you were not aware that your two servers were working toward different legacies. By continuing to build a second legacy on your second server, you chose to have any effort you put into those characters on that server have no impact on your original server's legacy. I can only speak for me, but if I truly wanted to have every character I leveled working toward a single legacy, I would have abandoned the lower characters as soon as I realized that the legacies were different, which would have been at level 1 as the legacy XP bar would have shown a different XP. I can only wonder why you did not do this, but instead chose to continue working on building a second and separate legacy. Oh and in response to the beginning of your post. I can claim that the "entire" legacy system was not in place because it wasn't. And at that time the system was insignificant regarding characters on a different server. All that changed after 1.2 and legacy perks were revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Ummmm yes they did. You obviously didn't read (or failed to read ((or failed at reading)) the documents that you demanded so furiously. See all the comments from the other people who figured it out? Go ahead. Take a minute to read them. I'll wait... Oh yeah! <high five /> I thought that was easy reading... and easy math. I guess stuff like this is just hard for some folks... To be fair, the numbers other people are referring to were not in the documents that you linked. Those were mentioned in some SWTOR-specific setting. You still failed at that. To make another fair point, though. Just because some of those subs stopped subbing, that does not mean that they left the game. To call them "lost" might just be a mistake. I am nonchalant because I'm guessing that the number of people ticked about transfers is in the 10s or 100s, not thousands or 10s of thousands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Another popular point of view for someone with more time than money. Yeah that's also one of the degrees of hurt I was talking about. Hurts to leave a toon behind man. If you had the time to make 20 characters in the first place, you have time to relevel them if you really want them. Especially with double XP a while back and coming up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDano Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 I wonder if all the people who are pissed about the transfer charge are aware that a year ago we had free transfers when the servers were merged? It's pretty amazing how when it was in EA's interest to merge servers that I had around 10 characters transferred for free, easily, quickly, and with no glitches. Now that it's a consumer's choice to move, that free service now suddenly is a complex undertaking that costs nearly $20 per character. Dude........you were one of the lucky ones. There were unlucky ones....(like me) who didn't get our characters merged back then. You didn't get to CHOOSE where you went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDano Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 If you had the time to make 20 characters in the first place, you have time to relevel them if you really want them. Especially with double XP a while back and coming up again. Can't argue with that. I don't have 20. I was talking about people like Ratajack with 20 toons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alandross Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I don't get why people are threatening to leave over this lol. They added the legacy system a while back, I remember when they added it. In no way shape or form do I remember them swearing a blood oath that they will get entire legacy transfers in by any time (or even at all). Sure I would want it, since I wouldn't mind moving my entire legacy over to another server (chose an East Coast server despite being in West Coast for players who no longer play); however, that just goes on a wish list, not a "OMG they didn't add this feature they never really promised in any specific time frame but I realize now I REALLY want it NOW so I'm unsubbing". People are to fickle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) I wonder if all the people who are pissed about the transfer charge are aware that a year ago we had free transfers when the servers were merged? It's pretty amazing how when it was in EA's interest to merge servers that I had around 10 characters transferred for free, easily, quickly, and with no glitches. Now that it's a consumer's choice to move, that free service now suddenly is a complex undertaking that costs nearly $20 per character. No glitches, lol.... there certainly were. The big problem now is new legacy and achievement systems that didn't exist then are buggy. It only makes sense, as with the APAC servers, that when they are forcing an inconvenience on to the players to have to move, they would not charge anything. Having come from other games that all charge more for transfers, this is one complaint that I just don't get. I would think the majority of people that have been on this forum asking "when are paid transfers coming?" would have the same expectations for cost as the other games. There is no going to be a mass exodus over paid transfers. There's far worse issues that I can understand people wanting to leave for, but this is not one of them. Edited June 14, 2013 by chuixupu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtkram Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 If you had the time to make 20 characters in the first place, you have time to relevel them if you really want them. Especially with double XP a while back and coming up again. are you saying it's best for the game if bioware released a system that encourages people to abandon the characters they created and start over? or are you saying bioware should not bother making the game better? when i abandoned my characters after my servers died, i did not enjoy that. i believe that is a typical experience. best case scenario, i get my characters back together again. there is no reason to prevent the best case scenario in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I was well past level one by the time 1.2 and the "entire" legacy system rolled around. I had two republic characters on a separate server because our guild had decided to have our republic guild on one server and our imperial guild on another. So when the "entire" legacy system which eventually impacted characters you may have on separate servers was revealed they had already been unknowingly separated. I knew they would eventually provide server transfers. Didn't think they would make us wait over a year for them, but I knew. I guess I'm just not as quick to abandon a fallen comrade. No but seriously I grew pretty attached to those republic toons I rolled. I grew equally attached to the characters I rolled on different servers. My point was that I knew by level one that I was building separate legacies and that it might come back to bite me, once the full extent of the legacy system was unveiled. I could have chosen at level 1 to not continue on a separate server and have all my characters in a single legacy, but I chose to build two separate legacies. I did not know there would be an opportunity to consolidate them, but I did know if I was given that opportunity I was going to charged for it and likely charged per character. I did not know anything that should not have been apparent to any other player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 honestly, i knew nothing of legacy until they released it. legacy was useless at launch and the game was new, so learning how to play my class was a bigger priority than reading whatever vague speculation there was regarding a legacy bar, which honestly i don't remember at all. i vaguely remember putting in my legacy name, then learning after that how it would appear (the choice between "X the Y Legacy or X Y"). i vaguely remember entering my legacy name a second time too, which i kept on the third server i rolled on. at the time, i was young an naive and believed bioware would not push their customers to quitting. it didn't make sense to me why bioware would want people to quit. it still doesn't make sense to me. i know, there were signs there, like a million people quitting, but i wanted to believe. i also knew that bioware was aware there was a problem. they knew i had to reroll, along with a majority of the people i was playing with. there shouldn't be a question as to whether transferring was a better option, it was just technically infeasible at the time. i thought bioware would try to help if they could, instead of pushing me and numerous others to quit. it's not technically infeasible anymore. they can help now if they choose. about a year and a half too late, but i would still appreciate their help. that would be the right thing to do. how is it that you think it's good for players to be expected to abandon the characters they've started? you know what the problem was. you were there. you know what the problem still is. i understand you want to pay bioware more money. that's fine. i don't. surely you can understand my perspective, and those in this thread that are saying they would like to have their legacies put back together. you can understand that, right? if you tried? is it really just that you want to pay bioware more money, beyond your subscription at a rate that scales higher with the number of characters you have? or is it that you're trying to get rid of the riff raff like me that think there's more to the game than the cartel market? are you worried they could start releasing content and treating their customers with respect if i'm not pushed out? still doesn't make sense to me. I don't WANT to pay BW extra money. I would make use of a legacy transfer option if it were available. The difference between you and me is that I do not feel ENTITLED to a legacy transfer. You made the same decision I did-- to continue to build two separate legacies, but you want BW to foot the bill for your actions, instead of assuming responsibility for them yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Oh and in response to the beginning of your post. I can claim that the "entire" legacy system was not in place because it wasn't. And at that time the system was insignificant regarding characters on a different server. All that changed after 1.2 and legacy perks were revealed. But your claim was not that the "entire legacy system was not in place". It was that the legacy system was not in place. I quote: Well as previously stated. The legacy system was not in game at launch. Not even announced. So myself and I'm sure countless others rolled characters on different servers. PVP; RP, PVE whatever. Had there been no legacy introduced it wouldn't make one bit of difference for me either way. Now once the legacy system was introduced it was abundantly clear that we were collectively working towards separate goals. Ergo wasting our time playing on separate servers. So it's not really fair to lay the blame at anyone's feet. Not EA nor the gamers. It was just an unfortunate result of game development. No mention of the word "entire" and my contention is that you cannot claim that the legacy system was not in place at launch, because it was. It was not complete yet, but it WAS in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDano Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 No glitches, lol.... there certainly were. The big problem now is new legacy and achievement systems that didn't exist then are buggy. It only makes sense, as with the APAC servers, that when they are forcing an inconvenience on to the players to have to move, they would not charge anything. Having come from other games that all charge more for transfers, this is one complaint that I just don't get. I would think the majority of people that have been on this forum asking "when are paid transfers coming?" would have the same expectations for cost as the other games. There is no going to be a mass exodus over paid transfers. There's far worse issues that I can understand people wanting to leave for, but this is not one of them. You're being a little too general man. The issues that would make you want to leave may be entirely different from someone else's. other people's motives is something I can generalize. And saying "Nobody's gonna quit because of server transfer prices!" Is a generalization. And an incorrect one at that. I believe it's already happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDano Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 But your claim was not that the "entire legacy system was not in place". It was that the legacy system was not in place. I quote: No mention of the word "entire" and my contention is that you cannot claim that the legacy system was not in place at launch, because it was. It was not complete yet, but it WAS in place. LOL!!! Ratajack you're kind of splitting hairs now aren't you. If I didn't know any better I'd say that you were sitting in a cubicle at Bioware Austin right now. Is it or is it not true that the legacy system that significantly effected characters on other servers wasn't implemented until 1.2? Don't mince words to try to debunk a statement that's true. It gives off a certain smell of the desperation of a Bioware employee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 LOL!!! Ratajack you're kind of splitting hairs now aren't you. If I didn't know any better I'd say that you were sitting in a cubicle at Bioware Austin right now. Is it or is it not true that the legacy system that significantly effected characters on other servers wasn't implemented until 1.2? Don't mince words to try to debunk a statement that's true. It gives off a certain smell of the desperation of a Bioware employee. I will freely admit that the full extent of the legacy system was not known until 1.2. Will you admit that you knew the effort you were putting into your different characters was going toward building two SEPARATE legacies and that you could have chosen to put all your effort into a single legacy AT ANY TIME, but chose not to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uziforyou Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I don't WANT to pay BW extra money. I would make use of a legacy transfer option if it were available. The difference between you and me is that I do not feel ENTITLED to a legacy transfer. You made the same decision I did-- to continue to build two separate legacies, but you want BW to foot the bill for your actions, instead of assuming responsibility for them yourself. Exactly. Ratajack is right on the money and used the right word to characterize the OP and everyone complaining about paid transfers..............entitled. Sadly, this same word describes a significant chunk of the playerbase in plenty of areas other than paid transfers as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alandross Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 But your claim was not that the "entire legacy system was not in place". It was that the legacy system was not in place. I quote: No mention of the word "entire" and my contention is that you cannot claim that the legacy system was not in place at launch, because it was. It was not complete yet, but it WAS in place. Agreed. Just because they promise to add a server transfer does not imply they are also promising a legacy transfer. It's like buying a phone because a promised improved screen quality and complaining they didn't also improve the sound. The things people expect without any actual promises of them are amazing. Sure it would be great and maybe they will do it, but why would anyone expect it to be done with the first pass of server transfers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtkram Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I don't WANT to pay BW extra money. I would make use of a legacy transfer option if it were available. The difference between you and me is that I do not feel ENTITLED to a legacy transfer. You made the same decision I did-- to continue to build two separate legacies, but you want BW to foot the bill for your actions, instead of assuming responsibility for them yourself. calling people entitled is just a crutch for someone who doesn't have anything useful to add. i'm not asking bioware to foot the bill for anything. i'm paying them for a service. i'm paying them now, i was paying them when their servers were dieing. you know that already. you know that pretending i'm trying to get something for free is BS. i'm pretty sure every single comment you've made on this topic reinforces your goal of paying bioware more. you've repeated many times that you think you should have to pay bioware more than your subscription to transfer characters. you've repeated many times that you think people with more characters should pay more. apparently you think you would be somehow less of a person, an "entitled" person, if you were to receive this service in a manner that did not cost more based on how many characters you have. i never played WoW. i have never, in my life, paid to transfer a character in any video game. there is no way i would have assumed that's normal, considering my influence of SWTOR came from SWTOR and not WoW. the following is what the community team said in december of 2011, which indicates there were plans on making server transfers available, and they did not, at that time, indication they would be paid. while you were pretending you were in WoW with lightsabers, i was reading the swtor forums. http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=570994&postcount=1 i want bioware to give everyone a reasonable option to keep their legacies together, whether they transfer or not, and whether transfers cost money or not. a sliding scale of fees that makes people pay more makes that goal less achievable. also, i think bioware should treat their players with some respect. saying it's my fault for the servers dieing and i should take responsibility for that doesn't help. saying i should be responsible for this game ending up different than WoW doesn't help. the difference between you and me is that i want equal access to the game services for all subscribers, including "legacy" and achievements as part of the game service, and you want to exclude people on a sliding scale dependent on the wealth they're able to give bioware. you're trying to essentially add another tier above subscriber, for patron access or whatever, so you can get access to basic game features other subscribers are denied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roalmo Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) I will freely admit that the full extent of the legacy system was not known until 1.2. Will you admit that you knew the effort you were putting into your different characters was going toward building two SEPARATE legacies and that you could have chosen to put all your effort into a single legacy AT ANY TIME, but chose not to do so? I sorry.. my clairvoyance was not as clear as yours. In every game I played the opposing factions activities NEVER effects the other side. So MY clairvoyance quickly decided that 2 legacies were the way to go. One for Repubs and one for the slimeballs(aka sithy wonders). So I continued with my dual legacies until... I realized a tad late the the Slimeballs' legacy stuff would help the Repubs. SHOCK, AWE, what human thought of this?????? and then the forced mergers came and it went all to hell.... So now whose fault is the mess of toons on different servers? Guess I "guessed" wrong and should be punished for it. But, you are ENTITLED to your opinion, as a special SNOWFLAKE of the white knight variety, to make FIRST WORLD fun of my predicament. Edited June 14, 2013 by Roalmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts