Shadow_Ordo Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 (This is pvp and pve related) Hi, i have been trying to understand how the "crit nerf" (as everyone is calling it) affected BH and specifically BH merc arsenals. I have a few friends who have been playing TOR for the last year i have missed, but i am still somewhat confused on what it exactly did in terms of gear setups and effectiveness. I know diminishing returns was mentioned but the exact amount was unclear. The gear i am using is a bit of a mix atm so i am not stacking pure crit and Surge (though i have more surge than crit, 70% surge) atm... Due to bolster i am forced to use my pve gear and not my pvp from when i originally played. However i can see getting over 30% crit chance is quite a challenge for i am stuck at around 20% crit chance, if i remember right before leveling from 50 to 55 i had around 30% crit chance. I believe my friend also said hitting 55 had something to do with that as well. Can anyone possibly give me the break down of this "crit nerf" and how it affected BH? Or even some threads or notes toward the affect of this change? on a semi related side note (this is more pvp related) but is the pve set bonus a better one to run with now over the pvp? I cannot remember what originally they were but i do feel they were changed over time. As it stands, i love running with the pve set bonus due to a 15% crit bonus to tracer missile, it is just delicious. I remember the pvp one was awesome for it's jet boost cooldown reduction but the 4 peiece seems "meh" to me as a arsenal merc. I cant help but feel like that has been changed or if it is just me. In any case is there any opinions or consensus on this issue as well? I know have been asking quite a few questions on these boards as of late but these two issues are one of the remaining ones i have in order to "Catch up with the times" as it were. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) Crit is most definitely worse than before 2.0 but up to 4 mods instead of power is fairly irrelevant. The general theme however is, stack power. Pre-2.0 values of crit and surge are no longer relevant and should not be aimed for. Regarding set bonuses for PVP a trivial bonus to damage is pointless. Pure DPS is for PVE where someone else is holding aggro, in PVP you need to semi tank almost every time you DPS. What I do instead is gather up the defensive/offensive bonuses of -5s CD on Jet Boost and HO from Eliminator and Combat Medic for: 10s HO with 25s CD (aka 15s left on CD when HO ends for 40% uptime) 20s Jet Boost Excellent set bonus combo for all maps. Edited June 7, 2013 by Gyronamics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternalnight Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I know diminishing returns was mentioned but the exact amount was unclear. Diminishing returns is not the problem with critical rating now. If you look at the DR curve for critical rating now: http://i.imgur.com/yDA34pg.jpg The curvature is so shallow, it is almost difficult to distinguish it from a straight line. Within the amounts of critical rating it is realistically possible to have, its gains diminish only by an insignificantly small amount. Rather the problem is that the gains from critical rating are too low to begin with, even before diminishing returns diminishes it. So critical rating by any amount is worse than same amount of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow_Ordo Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 Crit is most definitely worse than before 2.0 but up to 4 mods instead of power is fairly irrelevant. The general theme however is, stack power. Pre-2.0 values of crit and surge are no longer relevant and should not be aimed for. Regarding set bonuses for PVP a trivial bonus to damage is pointless. Pure DPS is for PVE where someone else is holding aggro, in PVP you need to semi tank almost every time you DPS. What I do instead is gather up the defensive/offensive bonuses of -5s CD on Jet Boost and HO from Eliminator and Combat Medic for: 10s HO with 25s CD (aka 15s left on CD when HO ends for 40% uptime) 20s Jet Boost Excellent set bonus combo for all maps. Thank you for your reply. I am afraid i do not entirely understand, i am not sure what the surge and crit focus was pre-2.0 because i have been gone a long time. So do i want to stack as much crit and surge or do i want to keep it at around 25% crit chance and 70% surge (where i have it now without actively focusing on it and blend the majority of my mods with power and i assume accuracy or more surge? I am just not sure what you mean by "Stack power" but say "up to 4 mods instead of power is fairly irrelevant". As for the set bonuses i see your point, that is a practical way of looking at this and i thought of something similar but not with combat medic armor. Though i had in mind combining the 15% crit tracer missile increase with the pvp -5s to jet boost. I am a arsenal merc so the faster i drop someone the better, i also dont use HO that much yet because i dont think i have become accustomed to it and it's application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow_Ordo Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 Diminishing returns is not the problem with critical rating now. If you look at the DR curve for critical rating now: http://i.imgur.com/yDA34pg.jpg The curvature is so shallow, it is almost difficult to distinguish it from a straight line. Within the amounts of critical rating it is realistically possible to have, its gains diminish only by an insignificantly small amount. Rather the problem is that the gains from critical rating are too low to begin with, even before diminishing returns diminishes it. So critical rating by any amount is worse than same amount of power. That is interesting, but maybe fits in with power being a good steady stat to go with while crit is a gamble? i dont know of course but just from a ignorant observation that is what it seems... it seems in the long hall with heavy stacking of aim augments and such that stacking crit and power is hard to differentiate between on which is the clear better stat. Would it b best to attempt 30% - 35% crt rating to focus more on power? Of course i dont think surge or accuracy should be left out of this consideration. Thank you also for your reply and that chart was interesting to look at, i am prob gonna keep going back to it when need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Accuracy and Surge compete with each other. Accuracy : get to 100 ranged 110 tech Surge : whatever is left once you have accuracy, the exact number of mods left for surge will vary depending on the level of gear you have Crit and Power compete with each other. Power = all HOWEVER up to 4 mods of crit is a trivial DPS difference if it happens that you cannot get hold of all power. Still a trivial difference for a while over 4 mods of crit but the ideal is minimal crit. And of course always go for high aim armours and mods with low aim and high power/crit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternalnight Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Mods: Mods have in addditon to main stat and endurance have either critical rating or power. It is just a choice between critical rating or power. Enhancements: Have in addition to endurance one of the following stat combinations Critical rating + Surge rating Critical rating + Accuracy rating Critical rating + Alacrity rating Power + Surge rating Power + Accuracy rating Power + Alacrity rating (not listing the ones with tank stats) Basically what I try to get is as many of the ones with Power&Accuracy as are needed to get "hit capped" and then put the ones with Power&Surge to the rest of the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sekon Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 As bodyguard, where is my crit % I'am looking for? 30% with the 5% crit buff or 30% without it ( so only my own critrating)???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternalnight Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 As bodyguard, where is my crit % I'am looking for? 30% with the 5% crit buff or 30% without it ( so only my own critrating)???? Neither. Just forget that 30% already. There is nothing special about 30% crit. You don't want it, especially not after 2.0 Highly outdated idea that was inaccurate to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow_Ordo Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 Mods: Mods have in addditon to main stat and endurance have either critical rating or power. It is just a choice between critical rating or power. Enhancements: Have in addition to endurance one of the following stat combinations Critical rating + Surge rating Critical rating + Accuracy rating Critical rating + Alacrity rating Power + Surge rating Power + Accuracy rating Power + Alacrity rating (not listing the ones with tank stats) Basically what I try to get is as many of the ones with Power&Accuracy as are needed to get "hit capped" and then put the ones with Power&Surge to the rest of the gear. what exactly is considered the "cap" on power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 what exactly is considered the "cap" on power? There is no cap on power. There IS a cap on accuracy which is 100/110 ranged/tech and thats when you stop using accuracy/power enh and find yourself some surge/power enhancements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phrase Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 As bodyguard, where is my crit % I'am looking for? 30% with the 5% crit buff or 30% without it ( so only my own critrating)???? You'll have all the crit you need from your talents and the op buff. Prioritize the same as the Arsenal guys here, except replace accuracy with alacrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow_Ordo Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 There is no cap on power. There IS a cap on accuracy which is 100/110 ranged/tech and thats when you stop using accuracy/power enh and find yourself some surge/power enhancements. ah that makes sense now. Does the Aim stat increase accuracy? It does not appear it does when i look into the stats... which to me just seems odd now that i think about it lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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