So what did BW get RIGHT? Hard to tell.

[LizardSF]

Because you're overly excited and a bit star-struck (READ: blinded)

 

So.... let me get this straight...

 

Someone says: "This am single player game!!!!1@1@!!12"

I say:"But I'm doing a lot more grouping than I have in many other MMOs."

You say:"Huur hurr fanboy hurr hurr."

 

I am not entirely following your logic. If there's no group content or no need to group, how does my apparent enjoyment of the game create such content, and, in turn, create other players to group with? Are we all involved in some massive shared delusion, that only your keen insight can liberate us from? Do tell!

 

I eagerly await your clear, coherent, and well-reasoned reply.

 

(Lest you respond with something like "Oh, it's new, people always group when it's new!", I was in Rift just post-release, and was unable to find any kind of viable group during my time there, which took me to about level 20. Likewise, by the time I'd made it to level 32 in LOTRO, I'd been in two groups. I think if you added both games together, total playtime spent in a group would be less than that I've spent in just making it to level 12 in SWTOR. I fail to see how any degree of blind fanboyism on my part could magically create both the group content I've experienced and, somehow, infect other players and compel them to join with me in this non-existent content.)

[Aloro]

Once again well said, however this kind of objective well thought out posting will just not be accepted on this forum. If this were to continue we might end up with an actual community.

 

Please take your logic and valid objective opinions elsewhere.

 

Sorry. I don't know what I was thinking. I'll try to be less logical and more randomly biased in the future.

[Serephi]

Eh. You'd have to be pretty blind or naive not to realize that SWToR was released as a completely unfinished product. To deny it, I'd actually call you down right stupid.

 

Regardless, at the end of the day among the plethora of dumb bugs, a horrible UI among a large list of complaints I could come up with... I'm having a lot of fun. I can ignore the annoyances for now in light of everything that is actually very well done. Hopefully we'll see a patch to fix a lot of the little stuff they missed/forgot about/ignored.

[LizardSF]

Those are reasons to group?

 

So it would seem. I don't understand it either, but this must be due to my blind mad delusional raving fanboyism, which is so extreme I am not actually playing SWTOR, but am, in fact, sitting in front of my computer in a catatonic stupor, imagining group-based content and other players to group with. Hopefully, we will both be enlightened soon, and then we can thank our savior for his generosity in sharing his wisdom with us.

[paspinall]

First of all this game isn't a MMO, it's a SP game with some MP aspects and heavy instancing, on par with Guild Wars if not worse.

 

- Terrible controls: Clunky, unresponsive and heavy.

 

Really not a clue what you mean here as I find them as easy to use as any other MMO

 

- Everything is instanced to an extreme.

 

- Terrible graphics: Lack of options too.

 

I actually like the graphics, they look good on my machine, sure they arent ubr realistic but they remind me of KOTOR while looking a lot better so I am happy.

 

 

- No mod support: Recount etc is a must for end game content. However seeing PvE in this game is faceroll I guess it's not needed.

 

I get really irritated by this "must" for end game content as there are plenty of MMO's that dont, or at some point didnt, use it and the end game content works fine.

 

 

- Companions are silly, why not make the character more powerful instead.

 

Because thats now how they decided to do that, its very Bioware in that respect isnt it.

 

 

- NO DR in PvP: ROFL!

 

- No PvP brackets: 50's just dominate all.

 

I havent encountered this at all, even on the occasion i have seen really high level players they havent been particular above other people and on a number of occasions middle of the pack, after all our stats all get boosted anyway

 

 

- No combat tab: Big ***?

 

 

- Broken loot system: Anyone can need on anything, even if they can't use it.

 

Here and most MMO's

 

 

- Can't pick another advanced tree without leveling.

 

Well yeah quite clearly i mean they play really quite differently so why should you be able to ? not to mention the gear is quite different between them too

 

 

- No LFG system - Spamming chat while also being in an instanced area.

 

- Terrible UI: Can't hide not used icon slots.

 

- No target of target

ooh something I agree on, i do miss this

 

 

 

 

- Targeting is **** and placement of targets icon is even worse.

 

- Terrible in game map: Cant zoom or do anything

 

- No UI scaling, actually pretty much no UI options at all.

 

- Terrible AH UI: Need I say more?

 

- 50's already with faceroll endgame raids.

 

actually haven't seen any level 50's on mine yet.

 

 

 

Most if not all of these things are TOTALLY unacceptable, especially for a 2012 release.

 

Makes me wonder *** the beta was for? So many elementary things are broken, it's mind blowing.

[MadJerry]

You do realize that with upgradable gear, you can be unique in your own way, right?

 

Indeed I understand that, but the options they give at the get go are terribly limited. This would have been fine 5 years ago but this game is brand new. They could have worked a little more on this and a little less on the cinematics. It is apparent to me that cinematics is where a good deal of their budget went.

 

 

 

Wait, are you implying that SWTOR's graphics are almost exactly like WoW's? Seriously?

 

I am not. I said the feel is the same. The graphics are clearly upgraded and have more detail, but the environments still feel contrived and lack an organic element. I get no sense that anyone is doing anything other than existing to provide a quest hub or a subplot. Compared to WoW layouts are functionally the same, the geography is incredibly small, buildings seem to have no purpose to their use, the environment is static. I have this strange feeling that when I come back to Tython 2 years from now the Twi'lek will still be battling the flesh beasts for control of the area... Things don't progress and days are never ending.

Edited December 21, 2011 by MadJerry

[Malvorno]

know what's crazy, in France they call it a Royale with cheese?

[MadJerry]

So in other MMO's you aren't the only special snowflake that can save the world? I suppose there was only one team that slayed the Lich King? I suppose you were the only one to get the Dragon soul?

 

That's exactly my point. That was the case in WoW and it felt stupid to me then too. Its so nice of the Litch King to die thousands of times for individual groups of 25 people. That does not seem kind of dumb to you?

[GalacticKegger]

That's exactly my point. That was the case in WoW and it felt stupid to me then too. Its so nice of the Litch King to die thousands of times for individual groups of 25 people. That does not seem kind of dumb to you?

Imagine if real life was a video game. Ouch babe!

[Jederix]

The two main complaint threads I keep seeing can be summed up like the following.

 

This game is too much like Wow. Game is fail.

This game is not enough like Wow. Game is fail.

 

Guess which type this one is.

 

Uh...D, not enough information. (Really, it's B)

[Feskitt]

First of all this game isn't a MMO, it's a SP game with some MP aspects and heavy instancing, on par with Guild Wars if not worse.

 

 

 

- Everything is instanced to an extreme.

 

While I agree with some of the things you listed, not this one.

 

This game is not "too instanced" at all.

 

If anything, there should be more instances!

 

 

Why the hell should I have to fight with other players to hurry up and kill a spawning enemy, ninja loot, etc.

 

That crap is for kiddies with emotional problems.

 

Instances are good. They let me play separate from you.

 

 

Cities, spaceports, cantinas.... this is where there should be crowds. Not fighting your way through some stronghold of enemies.

 

 

[Scar]

So.... let me get this straight...

 

Someone says: "This am single player game!!!!1@1@!!12"

I say:"But I'm doing a lot more grouping than I have in many other MMOs."

You say:"Huur hurr fanboy hurr hurr."

 

 

Yeah, there seems to be a severe gap in, dare I say, "logic" in that train of thought.

 

People only group when there is content there for them to group. Not because "me love dis game so much me have to group with someone!!!11ONE!!!".

 

That's beyond ridiculous.

 

One would have to be blind themselves to try and draw that conclusion.

 

Ironic, no?

 

So, I sort of need the Grand Canyon gap in *cough* reasoning filled in on that one.

[Neeseek]

The two main complaint threads I keep seeing can be summed up like the following.

 

This game is too much like Wow. Game is fail.

This game is not enough like Wow. Game is fail.

 

Guess which type this one is.

 

^^

 

 

No idea what the WoW tards want.

[FerrusPA]

Well, I haven't seen anyone post that. Rather, I've seen the opposite: "WoW has this therefore all other games must". That's however a purely subjective argument, since it's assuming - and not proving - that the feature is good in and of itself, and not good because it came from WoW.

 

So for the mods issue, for instance, the OP stated an opinion ("recount is necessary") as if it were a fact. It's not a fact though, and there are people who have good arguments for and against mods like recount. I won't accept that something's good because it's in WoW, but then I won't assume that something's bad because it's in WoW either. Game features should be judged in the context of the game they're found in.

 

I am not the OP. I hope you realize this. The OP wasn't very eloquent in what he said but he does have points that can't be easily refuted by us or ignored by the developers. The entire Recount debate has been raging since Beta (I'm in the Pro-Recount camp) and people not once reached an agreement. This isn't really the place to discuss it but from what I have seen most arguments revolve around "It ruined the community" and "I'm so elite I don't need it". Obviously those aren't very good arguments.

 

But there you go again with the random attacks against people who disagree with your views about the game: you think it's "Undeserving of an MMORPG circa 2011" and "some people try their best to keep it that way", you claim. But I don't see this at all.

 

And why shouldn't I? Some people do seem to shoot down any idea that might be related to WoW in any way. In this very thread we certainly have small-minded plebians chanting "Go back to wow lol" and such. Those are the people I attack. Those are the ones that hold the game back.

 

When someone points out something objective - like the FACT that the UI isn't very customizable right now - then there's room for people who enjoy the game, as well as people who don't enjoy the game, to discuss this. I agree that this is a problem, and I'm not very happy with the UI so far.

 

But, simply put, the vast majority of what the OP wrote isn't objective fact, but mere opinion. And so there isn't a lot people can say in response, except a) that's only your opinion, and b) here's my opinion.

 

I don't disagree here. The Opinion -> Counter-Opinion thing is the way the Internet works, sadly. In some cases there is hard proof however that something about the game is lacking. We see a lot of complaints about the graphics of TOR and while much of them are subjective, the bad performance on Laptops can be easily traced back to the Hero Engine being single-threaded. That's it. There is no room for discussing opinions there. Yet people insist on "IT DOESNT RUN BAD FOR ME SO UR WRONG!" and so forth.

 

That doesn't mean we're actively campaigning to ruin this game, nor does it mean that we're just lazy slackers who accept anything and don't worry about quality, and so by extension we're empowering the industry to put out lousy products. I feel that in most regards this is the best-produced MMO I've yet played, and it's much better at launch than I expected. I want a lot of changes, to be sure, and I'll ask for them and complain about bugs and imbalances, but overall I have a positive opinion of the game.

 

Again, no disagreement here. We just seem to go about changing the game differently.

Edited December 21, 2011 by FerrusPA

[RenegadeXan]

The op bash the game really hard and but many points are right, the map and targeting suck

 

and for the "LOL go back to wow" i am still sticking to the game , and i hope over time it gets more polished. I am just giving it time,

[LizardSF]

That's exactly my point. That was the case in WoW and it felt stupid to me then too. Its so nice of the Litch King to die thousands of times for individual groups of 25 people. That does not seem kind of dumb to you?

 

It's extremely dumb. It is also the nature of the beast, and it has been since the days of DIKU, which was ripped off by EQ, which was ripped off by WoW, which was ripped off by TOR.

 

 

You might as well be asking "How come no matter how many orcs we kill, there's still more of them?" or "How come resource nodes keep respawning?" or "How come the stims vendor is willing to buy my gang badges, animal body parts, and used backpacks?"

 

If you think you've got a better model for an MMO, all you need to do is convince people to give you 150 million dollars of their money and you can try it out.

 

And this is why I supplement my MMO'ing with REAL RPGing. At a tabletop. With dice. And people. I don't demand MMOs provide me with the kind of immersion and story I can get at the tabletop, because that's not what they're made for and they will likely not be able to accomplish anything close to it without HAL-level AI.

[FerrusPA]

My question here is this; If he's your friend, why in the world do you need a server-wide LFG channel? Are you two not on the same server? I don't think I understand what you're trying to say here.

 

Please elaborate for clarity.

 

Excuse I was in a hurry while writing that post. What I meant so say was that we, as a two-man group (Tank and DD) have a lot of trouble finding groups to do Flashpoints with. This is mainly because of two things: You have to sit on the Fleet to properly search for other people since no global LFG exists. Sure, you can try finding other players on the various planets but chances are, if they're there they don't want to do FPs in the first place.

 

Furthermore a tool like in WoW would allow as to continue questing together while waiting for a group to form instead of either one or both of us spamming /1 on the Fleet. That's my main gripe currently because I believe I remember it was the goal of the devs to have people do what they want. Well, I want to do FPs but I can't, so I won't. Which makes me angry.

Edited December 21, 2011 by FerrusPA

[FooBard]

Can I have your stuff?

That that you can't use... can I have it? I'll take leftovers.

[Jederix]

Much point to these threads, really.

There's the people who simply don't like the game and might bring up valid points on a good day, and then there's the zealous defenders who will do their last to defend every single design decision made by Bioware. It's cool guys, you're all winners.

 

 

That being said, much of the opening post holds truth to at least some extent. Open your eyes. PvP needs to see some major improvements if they want to keep a somewhat competitive player base.

 

I've not had a good laugh like that in a while. Competitive player base? Yeah, this isn't a PvP game, and we saw what happened when the other big MMO tried to get "competitive". It was the beginning of the decline of its population (decline as in community decline, not subscription decline).

[MrIrrelevant]

What did they get right? They got over a million people playing the game, and still a million if you leave....

 

I'm loving the game, and the only reason I'm not playing is because I'm at work... to each his own. I'll still have hundreds of thousands of people to play with as soon as all the whining babies leave the game.

[KerythFOS]

First of all this game isn't a MMO, it's a SP game with some MP aspects and heavy instancing, on par with Guild Wars if not worse.

 

- Terrible controls: Clunky, unresponsive and heavy.

 

- Everything is instanced to an extreme.

 

- Terrible graphics: Lack of options too.

 

- No mod support: Recount etc is a must for end game content. However seeing PvE in this game is faceroll I guess it's not needed.

 

- Companions are silly, why not make the character more powerful instead.

 

- NO DR in PvP: ROFL!

 

- No PvP brackets: 50's just dominate all.

 

- No combat tab: Big ***?

 

- Broken loot system: Anyone can need on anything, even if they can't use it.

 

- Can't pick another advanced tree without leveling.

 

- No LFG system - Spamming chat while also being in an instanced area.

 

- Terrible UI: Can't hide not used icon slots.

 

- No target of target

 

- Targeting is **** and placement of targets icon is even worse.

 

- Terrible in game map: Cant zoom or do anything

 

- No UI scaling, actually pretty much no UI options at all.

 

- Terrible AH UI: Need I say more?

 

- 50's already with faceroll endgame raids.

 

 

Most if not all of these things are TOTALLY unacceptable, especially for a 2012 release.

 

Makes me wonder *** the beta was for? So many elementary things are broken, it's mind blowing.

 

- Controls have been nothing but smooth to me. Perhaps it is something wrong on your end

 

- Instanced? You mean the shards that keep everything at a manageable size so people can actually do their quests? No problems here. After all, IF I am on a different shard form my friends I can switch to that one. And the sharding decreases as the game goes on.

 

- What is so terrible about the graphics? Seriously?

 

- Recount is NOT a necessity. Unless you are one of thos epeople that need to post it after every run. Mods are not a necessity either. Most MMO's don;t allow them, so, if you cannot live without your Recount and Gearscore, go back to WoW.

 

- Your opinion on companions is just that, an opinion. I and many others enjoy the companions and the additions they bring to a storyline

 

- Your PVP stuff is a non-issue.

 

- You mean a combat log? Again, not a necessity. Deal without it or move on

 

- You mean the same loot system from every other MMO out there. WoW's class specific thing only came with Cata and actually dstill doesn;t work all the time. Also, with moddable gear, the WoW class specific thing won;t work because My Trooper can easily take a piece of moddable JC gear, remove the +str mods and put in +aim mods

 

- Imagine that. You pick an Advanced Class and you have to play that AC. Dual Spec was a horrible idea in WoW and the travesty that is Rifts system is even worse. Learn to play your class

 

- No LFG. We could use a global LFG Channel, yes. Randomd dungeon finder, no thanks. Get in a guild or actually TALK to people. Between friends and General chat, I don;t know anyone who has had trouble forming groups. In fact, I see msgs for the heroics in General even.

 

- UI Issues have never been a issue for me, sorry, so, can;t comment. I used the default WoW UI form Vanilla through Cata and raided up till I quit after Firelands. So, can;t comment

 

- No Target of Target. Would be nice but still a MINOR issue. As for your opinion on the placement of the targetting icon, again, your OPINION

 

- I have found the map highly useful and have no problems with it. Again, your Opinion

 

- I'll grant you the AH issue. It could use some reworing, but hey, the game is only 2 DAYS old.

 

- I've seen 1 50 on my server. Then again, I could care less as I am too busy having a blast in this game

 

Unlike you, I don;t find any of these issues to be issues of any significance. PErhaps you should just leave and got o another game? You are not going to convince us to join you no matter how many times you post this

[Aidean]

First of all this game isn't a MMO, it's a SP game with some MP aspects and heavy instancing, on par with Guild Wars if not worse.

 

- Terrible controls: Clunky, unresponsive and heavy.

 

- Everything is instanced to an extreme.

 

- Terrible graphics: Lack of options too.

 

- No mod support: Recount etc is a must for end game content. However seeing PvE in this game is faceroll I guess it's not needed.

 

- Companions are silly, why not make the character more powerful instead.

 

- NO DR in PvP: ROFL!

 

- No PvP brackets: 50's just dominate all.

 

- No combat tab: Big ***?

 

- Broken loot system: Anyone can need on anything, even if they can't use it.

 

- Can't pick another advanced tree without leveling.

 

- No LFG system - Spamming chat while also being in an instanced area.

 

- Terrible UI: Can't hide not used icon slots.

 

- No target of target

 

- Targeting is **** and placement of targets icon is even worse.

 

- Terrible in game map: Cant zoom or do anything

 

- No UI scaling, actually pretty much no UI options at all.

 

- Terrible AH UI: Need I say more?

 

- 50's already with faceroll endgame raids.

 

 

Most if not all of these things are TOTALLY unacceptable, especially for a 2012 release.

 

Makes me wonder *** the beta was for? So many elementary things are broken, it's mind blowing.

 

 

So how many different threads are you going to start hating on the game, go play a different game and begone with ya?

[Kakaroaches]

They got the immersive storyline right.

That and a bunch of other things, point is I like the game and not many other mmo's got that right.

[MajikMyst]

The op bash the game really hard and but many points are right, the map and targeting suck

 

and for the "LOL go back to wow" i am still sticking to the game , and i hope over time it gets more polished. I am just giving it time,

 

The problem is.. All of his points fall into two catagories.. Either completely wrong or opinion..

 

For instance.. Target of target is in the game.. Just because he is to lazy to look for it doesn't mean he should complain about it.. All his doing is making himself look bad.. There is an entire section called preferences.. It has all kinds of things you can change about the game, the UI and the controls.. Had he looked over key bindings.. He would have noticed that Alt+T is target of target.. Which of course can be bound to anything he wants.. Targeting is a breeze when you again bind the targeting keys to where you want them.. If he would just take the time to actually learn how to play and customize the game.. He might find that the game isn't as bad as he says it is.. Not to mention, he wouldn't look so silly..

 

AS for his opinions?? Well.. He is entitled as is everyone else..

[GraunKrynn]

That that you can't use... can I have it? I'll take leftovers.

 

Can I have the scraps? I have a guild, companions and alts to feed ya know.