Solo-Only Toggle for Warzone PVP.

[Comfterbilly]

Thousands of paying customers have been demanding a solo-only que option since launch. Well over a year later, it's plain to see in the PVP thread and elsewhere that they are really serious. These are paying customers who are sincere about the game, this is not a fickle request, it is not something we can enjoy the game without. The people who really like PVP, and really dislike being stuck in a que to be farmed by ranked teams who are slumming it, have spoken loudly from the beginning, throughout every update, right up to the present when the demanda for a solo-only warzone toggle are louder than ever. We were serious about it then, we are serious about it now, and we'll be serious about it when 3.0 comes out, and beyond:

 

WE. DO. NOT. WANT. TO. QUE. WITH. PREMADES.

 

It's time to stop sweeping us under the rug BW. It's time to stop throwing true blue pug players to the dogs. Premades are against it - they want easy farming. We are sick of it.

 

1. Just because we can make our own premades does not mean we want to.

2. Just because they want to "play with their friends" doesn't mean we want to play with their friends.

3. Just because premades spam gimmicks and "plays", doesn't mean we want to be forced to do the same.

4. Whatever the merits of premades - we are not interested.

 

We're tired of the gimmick spam. We're sick of the non-stop predation, run-around-in-circles all day. We're sick of the chain-stuns. Sick of the cross-healing.

 

Translation: sick of the ranked 4-mans slumming it in solo que because BW continues to let them get away with it.

 

The situation:

 

1. The player versus player is a SWTOR feature.

2. It's something that attracts people to the game.

3. It's an attraction that's superior to what is offered by other similar game products.

4. The superiority of SWTOR warzones is one of the things that makes the game valuable.

5. The value of the game is what makes players want to spend money on it.

 

BUT: For a significant number of people who have been very vocal about their opinions, the lack of a solo-only que detracts substantially from the value of the game.

 

1. It matters less that the warzones are superior.

2. It greatly lessens the attraction.

3. It stops being a feature, and starts being an eyesore.

 

Very plainly, these ranked 4-mans masquerading as "friendly premades", are players we dislike and whom we resent being forced to share a warzone with. We don't want to play with them, we don't have to play with them. Clearly, the next game developer to offer feature PVP with solo-only que, will be going a long way to earn our subscriptions.

Personally, I'm hoping that company is Bioware.

 

CFTBLY.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Comfterbilly

[Corrupted_Soul]

Agreed

 

/signed

[deedeede]

/sign

[DarthRaika]

Separate q's or make better premade matching so that making premades can be fun.

 

/signed.

[Sharee]

To borrow official Blizzard stance on the 'premades' issue, "Playing with friends is fun and important, but it shouldn't come at the expense of the fun of others."

 

If a paying customer does not want to face premades in warzones, he should not face premades in warzones.

/signed.

[RisenDragon]

/sign

[Stoofa]

Nice post and just about sums things up.

I know that some people will just say "learn to play" etc. However I'm convinced that the largest benefit people have in WZ's is:

 

3 or 7 mates all playing on the same team as you with voice chat.

 

That alone will make up for any inability to actually play the game. A mouse clicker only could partake in a 4 or 8 person premade and still be effective because of this.

 

I've been in some amazing WZ's (as many losses as there have been wins). The games have been close and even a total coast or civil war loss where you've enjoyed the game makes me want to queue up immediately.

However being rolled over by a premade where all you've been throughout the zone is a "kill count" no. The only people enjoying that are the premades.

Needs to be addressed.

[TheNahash]

/signed

[Comfterbilly]

To borrow official Blizzard stance on the 'premades' issue, "Playing with friends is fun and important, but it shouldn't come at the expense of the fun of others."

 

If a paying customer does not want to face premades in warzones, he should not face premades in warzones.

/signed.

 

Wow - exactly. Equally true in Swtor terms.

I'll try to break it down as clearly as I can:

 

Any addon that enables a full, organized [Warzone] group to queue against a randomly assembled group is creating a scenario where that coordinated group has a huge advantage. That is not in the spirit of the experience we want to provide in the normal [Warzone] queue. Playing with friends is fun and important, but it shouldn't come at the expense of the spirit of the game nor the fun of others.

 

The normal [Warzone] queue is for players to jump in and play against other players in a similar situation. We realize that it's not a perfect system, and we're still looking at ways to improve normal [Warzone] queues further. Regardless, it's not meant for organized groups to "pug stomp" and get quick [Valor]. We have built in outlets for players that want to organize--if a competitive, social experience was really the goal, then there are clear ways to achieve that.

The ultimate effect that this kind of queuing has had is to drive players away from PvP. Perhaps it's been a long time since you've been in a random group, but a lot of players will see that they're up against a premade and simply quit. At best, they suffer through it. To an extent premade groups count on this.

 

...but we do take those issues seriously and we'll continue our work on improvements to the Battleground system, including better ways to deal with botting and other exploitative gameplay.

 

^ This guy is making a solid pitch for my business. BW I can wait for a patch, but I have to believe there is going to be one.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Comfterbilly

[Vhaegrant]

/signed

 

While it's nice have a 4-man premade on your side I would willingly sacrifice those moments to queue solo. Facing a team with a premade in it while your side is 8 solo players is frustrating. Almost as frustrating as the slow PvP grind to get geared.

 

With a 'Solo Queue' option could we also have an 'Unbolster' option where all players in the WZ have their gear normalised to a default value. I would much rather sacrifice any advantage gear gives me to get a more balanced play that makes me feel as if my choices and reactions are contributing to the end result. Just saying real PvP shouldn't be gear orientated at any level.

[TheNahash]

/signed

 

While it's nice have a 4-man premade on your side I would willingly sacrifice those moments to queue solo. Facing a team with a premade in it while your side is 8 solo players is frustrating. Almost as frustrating as the slow PvP grind to get geared.

 

actually I wouldn't even call it "nice", just nicer.

Obviously, winning is always better than losing (duh!).

But if your team is a 4-man premade and you just destroy the other team, well... where's the real fun in PVPing? I don't know about other people, but for me personally PVP is fun and rewarding when there's a challenge (i.e. 1vs1 with a good player, two good pug teams etc), when you need to really try to get that win, when you learn something that you can use the next time you are in the same situation and when there is a reason for me to be there, not just to fill up one of the remaining spots - aka when I'm useful.

Edited May 29, 2013 by TheNahash

[Helig]

While further queue separation will impede casual groups (which are more numerous than the demonized Pug-rolling premades), it would be the lesser of two evils, because the vast majority of regular warzone queuers go solo.

 

Not a perfect solution - I would prefer matchmaking. But if it's solo queue or the current state of things, I'll take solo queue.

 

So /signed

 

Besides, at release SWToR didn't even have group Warzone queue, and complaints that "I can't play with my friends" were much, much more scarce than the current "Premades are ruining regular warzones" trend. Which is also an indication on how much discomfort which state of things brings to the community.

[Givemedanger]

I want solo queue. Always did.

[Heathenblood]

/sign

[HuaRya]

/signed

 

I'm a player who doesn't have the time to commit to premade guild. I want to jump in for a few matches and hopefully get my daily/weekly done. Noticing that most of the premade guilds seldom play rank and prefer to bully the non-ranked warzone it only seems logical to make the Ranked WZ for groups and the Non-Ranked Solo.

 

It would be a really simple and profound fix that would allow people who didn't play swtor beta or we not around when the big premade pvp guilds formed a chance to get better, meet other solos, and eventually form a premade for ranked in the future. Currently, the conditions aren't allowing a fresh 55 to advance. This can be easily fixed.

[otherworlder]

Signed.

 

Balanced matches mean everyone is having fun, win or lose. That should be the goal of a game played for relaxation and enjoyment.

[Hizoka]

Thousands of paying customers have been demanding a solo-only que option since launch. Well over a year later, it's plain to see in the PVP thread and elsewhere that they are really serious. These are paying customers who are sincere about the game, this is not a fickle request, it is not something we can enjoy the game without. The people who really like PVP, and really dislike being stuck in a que to be farmed by ranked teams who are slumming it, have spoken loudly from the beginning, throughout every update, right up to the present when the demanda for a solo-only warzone toggle are louder than ever. We were serious about it then, we are serious about it now, and we'll be serious about it when 3.0 comes out, and beyond:

 

WE. DO. NOT. WANT. TO. QUE. WITH. PREMADES.

 

It's time to stop sweeping us under the rug BW. It's time to stop throwing true blue pug players to the dogs. Premades are against it - they want easy farming. We are sick of it.

 

1. Just because we can make our own premades does not mean we want to.

2. Just because they want to "play with their friends" doesn't mean we want to play with their friends.

3. Just because premades spam gimmicks and "plays", doesn't mean we want to be forced to do the same.

4. Whatever the merits of premades - we are not interested.

 

We're tired of the gimmick spam. We're sick of the non-stop predation, run-around-in-circles all day. We're sick of the chain-stuns. Sick of the cross-healing.

 

Translation: sick of the ranked 4-mans slumming it in solo que because BW continues to let them get away with it.

 

The situation:

 

1. The player versus player is a SWTOR feature.

2. It's something that attracts people to the game.

3. It's an attraction that's superior to what is offered by other similar game products.

4. The superiority of SWTOR warzones is one of the things that makes the game valuable.

5. The value of the game is what makes players want to spend money on it.

 

BUT: For a significant number of people who have been very vocal about their opinions, the lack of a solo-only que detracts substantially from the value of the game.

 

1. It matters less that the warzones are superior.

2. It greatly lessens the attraction.

3. It stops being a feature, and starts being an eyesore.

 

Very plainly, these ranked 4-mans masquerading as "friendly premades", are players we dislike and whom we resent being forced to share a warzone with. We don't want to play with them, we don't have to play with them. Clearly, the next game developer to offer feature PVP with solo-only que, will be going a long way to earn our subscriptions.

Personally, I'm hoping that company is Bioware.

 

CFTBLY.

 

just because PvPers cry the most and the loudest doesn't mean they are still not one of the smallest groups...

[Hizoka]

Signed.

 

Balanced matches mean everyone is having fun, win or lose. That should be the goal of a game played for relaxation and enjoyment.

 

you can never have a "balanced" match as long as there is something like expertise on gear.

 

If you want a balanced fight you should campaign to remove expertise and have bolster make everything equal for everyone.

[Helig]

you can never have a "balanced" match as long as there is something like expertise on gear.

 

If you want a balanced fight you should campaign to remove expertise and have bolster make everything equal for everyone.

Bolster alleviates Expertise issues. "Free" 2k expertise in low-end PvE gear evens it out even a little beyond Partisan-level gear.

 

You can also argue that random matches are never balanced because of random team compositions.

 

But people here argue that advantages inherent to premades (filtering of classes, specs, gear, experience playing together, better communications) that PuGs do not have access to need to be mitigated.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Helig

[TonyDragonflame]

/signed

 

Bioware, read these threads:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=544543&page=265

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=637043&highlight=premade

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=608932&highlight=premade

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=587947&highlight=premade

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=569333&highlight=premade

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=560194&highlight=premade

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=534914&highlight=premade

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=526897&highlight=premade

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=523444&highlight=premade

 

et cetera: http://www.swtor.com/community/search.php?searchid=3980544&pp=25&page=2

[Comfterbilly]

/signed

 

Bioware, read these threads:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=544543&page=265

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=637043&highlight=premade

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=608932&highlight=premade

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=587947&highlight=premade

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=569333&highlight=premade

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=560194&highlight=premade

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=534914&highlight=premade

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=526897&highlight=premade

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=523444&highlight=premade

 

et cetera: http://www.swtor.com/community/search.php?searchid=3980544&pp=25&page=2

 

^ Exactly. Honestly as huge a volume as the above is I bet it's just a fraction of the total dissent, frustration and agitation over this issue. Until the devs make a response, I'm going to have to say they're just content to take one segment of their paying pvp base and use us as steak bits for the frog dogs.

[Helig]

^ Exactly. Honestly as huge a volume as the above is I bet it's just a fraction of the total dissent, frustration and agitation over this issue. Until the devs make a response, I'm going to have to say they're just content to take one segment of their paying pvp base and use us as steak bits for the frog dogs.

 

What's funny the pro-solo queue outcry far, FAR outscales the "want to queue with friends" complaining that happened back before group queues were introduced.

 

Not being able to queue with friends was an inconvenience. Getting rolled over several matches in a row is not just an inconvenience - it's a negative experience that turns people away from PvP.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Helig

[Comfterbilly]

Maybe the devs at BW are just young and immature enough to think that pushing for more organization and bumping up the play level, which are two good things, are good reasons to justify the huge mismatch in their casual queue. If so, they are probably also naive enough to think a bandaid like buggy match-making sort-ware is good enough medicine to fix a huge, systemic problem as widespread as this has become, optimistic as that may be.

 

Hopefully they grow up and realize they've got some inexcusable mismatching going on in their system, and a population of premades who are actually bringing down the game play as well as taking advantage of their queuing system because they really are that petty.

 

These "great noble premades of ultimate skill" are usually just gravity-spamming plus ranged DPS plus sentinel speed plus immorto heals plus guardian running around twice as fast as everybody else taking advantage of the no-challenge game play.

 

Whatever BW devs think, this ^ can't be what they're shooting for; it's what they're getting, to me, I think the company ought to be embarrassed to be hosting such a thing.

[Comfterbilly]

What's funny the pro-solo queue outcry far, FAR outscales the "want to queue with friends" complaining that happened back before group queues were introduced.

 

Not being able to queue with friends was an inconvenience. Getting rolled over several matches in a row is not just an inconvenience - it's a negative experience that turns people away from PvP.

 

Exactly. In all honesty, what are they thinking catering their product to the low-brow minority? I've unsubbed for this reason before, I can't be the only one. I'm only subbed again because I moved out of my home town and it's a convenient way to hang out with one of my best friends who prefers sci-fi MMO to fantasy, thus giving Swtor one more chance. Grudgingly.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Comfterbilly

[XAtrophi]

While i hate getting rolled by premades as much as the next guy, unless the next guy is a masochist then he might like it, I hate waiting forever for the queue to pop. If they implement this the day after that patch hits the forums would be full of:

"omg guys the queue never pops, BW force people to play..oh but not like with friends to have fun or anything but to join me and the bads who don't under stand these matches arent death matches"

Note that when i say bads you all know who i mean if you ever do regs, That guy in huttball who hangs out in the pit or even worse our endzone, the guys who when we control mid fight at the enemy drop point and let mid get ninja'd, the guy who "defends" a node by going afk near it as if his mere presence will kill any would-be attacker, i could go on but this would be a multi-page novel if i did.

The majority of the premades people complain about are fully geared in min/maxed conq gear of course you'll lose. Even with TS ive seen premades lose by just being plain bad so not ALL of them are super skilled.

 

Im sure someones going to skim my post and accuse me of rolling with premades only or somehow im fighting for the premade argument so i'll say this I dont want to start an argument and i am saying i agree with you about premades being annoying however they do help keep queue times down and if they are nice they will buy you drinks before ...well you know;)