ETA on Advanced Class change?

[TridusSWTOR]

you do realise that you are 'debating' in just the same way, don;t you? You are offering your opinion as reasoned, logical, fact. It's not, it's your opinion, to which you are entitled and should be respected for. What you really are not entitled to or to be respected for is telling someone they are breaking your debate rules when you yourself are not following them and there, in fact, no bloody rules in the first place.

 

at this point EA/BW have made no statement about this being likely or not, previously there have been comments that make mention of some historical yes/no/maybe, but there is nothing recent or valid. Forums are for people to express their views about game related matters. Until EA/BW say otherwise this is just as likely to happen as it is not, it's that simple and for all your talk, your opinion on this is as likely to be considered or not.

 

my own view is this can happen, it will not impact how I play if you change your AC, it wont impact how I play if you change your class - BECAUSE YOU ALREADY CAN! this is a make it easier, possibly with some restrictions attached, concept, that's all. I wanted both smuggler AC's, I rolled them both. If I could have changed AC I would have but I also would have probably still rolled both to have both.

 

as for the 'I had to grind out 55 levels to get my Sage so you should too' - want a cookie?

 

Very well said and the key is. That it doesn't impact anyone else but the person changing AC's!

 

Oh lord, I don't know how people can be against something that they can choose not to be a part of but if they don't want it, they don't want others to have it either. How arrogant can you get?

[branmakmuffin]

Oh lord, I don't know how people can be against something that they can choose not to be a part of but if they don't want it, they don't want others to have it either. How arrogant can you get?

Pretty much it in a nutshell.

[MajikMyst]

I've brought up a ton of reasons outside of "laziness" for why ac switching is a bad idea. No one has even responded to my points. Others bring these points up, and minus vitriol there is little said in this thread by anyone, that is actually responded to.

 

^^

 

I am sure you have.. That was my point.. A lot of us have brought up reasons as to why AC swapping is bad.. It is the people that want it that have failed to bring up reasons..

[MajikMyst]

you do realise that you are 'debating' in just the same way, don;t you?

 

Actually I am not.. That is where you are wrong.. The game says that your choice is permanent does it not?? Bioware made the game say that did they not?? Case closed..

 

The biggest argument that I have heard to allow AC swapping is they don't want to do the story again.. That is laziness.. Hence why that argument needs to be refuted..

 

What I have said is 100% fact.. I don't argue the same way.. I deal only in facts.. Not opinion..

 

You also need to come to terms with the fact that this debate is not about you.. So how it does or doesn't effect you is not relevant.. Hence a meaningless point..

 

The issue at hand is how it would effect the game and the gaming community as a whole.. In the simplest of terms.. A lazy few should not be allowed to dictate game rules for everyone else.. Bioware made this rule before launch.. Yes, at one point they did consider it.. But as far as we the player is concerned.. The game has not changed.. It has always said our choice is permanent.. We as players need to have some choices have consequences..

 

Your AC is your class.. That is not opinion, that is fact.. I don't see people on Blizzards forums asking for class changes.. Why here?? Would we be having this discussion if we chose our AC at lvl 0??

Edited June 22, 2013 by MajikMyst

[MajikMyst]

Oh lord, I don't know how people can be against something that they can choose not to be a part of but if they don't want it, they don't want others to have it either. How arrogant can you get?

 

So lets start a debate on a optional god mode?? Why would anyone argue against that??

 

How arrogant of you to even ask that questions..

[MajikMyst]

A free character? You mean you get an extra character? Because that would be in lines with a free character.

 

So you say you leveled a 55 shadow. So in you're world, when you do an AC change you get a 55 sage but you claim that is a "free character". Yet it is not.

 

If you want to join the rest of reality though, when you level a 55 shadow and AC change to a level 55 sage. You don't get a free character, you get a AC change.

 

If you got a free character you would level a 55 shadow and AC change to a level 55 sage and get them BOTH on your account. You see? That would be a free character.

 

But since they actually put in the work to get to level 1 to level 55, that is not a "free" character. It's a character.

 

Learn the difference.

 

Yes it is.. It is not the same character I rolled.. I also didn't level as a sage.. You learn the difference..

 

I put the effort in to level a shadow to 55.. Not a sage.. Again, you learn the difference..

 

Everyone should be required to level a class.. Now if swapping their AC meant they were taken back to lvl 1.. No worries.. Then they have to do the work for that class..

[Illyean]

Actually I am not.. That is where you are wrong.. The game says that your choice is permanent does it not?? Bioware made the game say that did they not?? Case closed..

 

The biggest argument that I have heard to allow AC swapping is they don't want to do the story again.. That is laziness.. Hence why that argument needs to be refuted..

 

What I have said is 100% fact.. I don't argue the same way.. I deal only in facts.. Not opinion..

 

so anything the game said or says is to be taken as fixed in stone and cant change? I think you may find the real world of MMO games is not like this, never has been like this and never will be. Things change, either as a process of evolution (for want of a better word), maintenance or fixing things that are broken, additions of new things or the redesign and reimplementation of old things using a new mechanism. This game has changed through all of these and probably more a huge amount since it launched

 

As you seem so keen to 'answer the question' answer two for the rest of us if you would.

 

1. How does another player changing their AC impact you in anyway at all? (let's ignore the fact that another player may just be upset about it for some, as yet undetermined medical reason)

 

2. What will you do if it is implemented?

[MajikMyst]

so anything the game said or says is to be taken as fixed in stone and cant change?

 

Some things in an MMO doesn't change and shouldn't be changed.. Let's get real here.. I played MMO's for years.. Some things don't change.. Class being one of them.. If you don't know that then perhaps you shouldn't be in this discussion..

 

WOW never made the change.. Bioware would be wise to follow their lead.. Countless other games do not allow class changes.. So why should Bioware??

 

From a financial standpoint, bioware would lose money if they allow AC swapping.. It would be a loss in content.. So again?? Think about it.. In a point of view other than your own..

 

As for the effecting another player argument?? Seriously.. That is a null argument..

 

How about a optional god mode button for people?? How would that effect you?? Seriously.. This is what gets me about the people that are attempting to argue for AC swapping.. Did it ever occur to you that your argument for how it doesn't effect someone else, could be used to justify something else?? Hence used against you??

 

How about that god mode button?? That won't effect anyone..

Edited June 22, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Illyean]

Some things in an MMO doesn't change and shouldn't be changed.. Let's get real here.. I played MMO's for years.. Some things don't change.. Class being one of them.. If you don't know that then perhaps you shouldn't be in this discussion..

 

WOW never made the change.. Bioware would be wise to follow their lead.. Countless other games do not allow class changes.. So why should Bioware??

 

From a financial standpoint, bioware would lose money if they allow AC swapping.. It would be a loss in content.. So again?? Think about it.. In a point of view other than your own..

 

opinion offered as fact again, sorry.

 

various games have offered class based changes in one form or another, but that isn't the point, if the future of a game was dictated by the past of a different game we would all be playing pong.

 

Financially, sorry, neither of us is qualified to claim to be able to answer that, your hypothesis is that allowing an AC class change would result in less income (in a F2P game) due to lost, err what exactly? because people currently roll another toon of the same base class to level the other advanced class. I did this myself so I know people do, but I reject the notion that there is likely to be any significant loss of revenue as a result. Given the F2P and cash shop model now adopted its not unreasonable to think an AC class change would cost money, resulting in additional revenue. It may also result in people playing longer, spending more, rather than giving up on an AC they are not enjoying any more. Opinion, but valid, fact, certainly not!

 

Are you going to answer the questions or are you running for public office?

[Ratajack]

You missed the entire point. They both require legwork.

 

Good lord, re-read before you decide to post misinformation.

 

What "legwork" is required for a cosmetic change? There is a vast difference between going to the "barber shop" and leveling that new class.

[MajikMyst]

opinion offered as fact again, sorry.?

 

What your post?? Yes it is opinion.. Mine?? Well.. It is obvious you either don't know what fact is or don't care what fact is..

 

You are just ignoring everything..

 

As for your questions?? I answered it and used your own logic against you.. As for the other question?? It would require me to make a false assumption.. Sorry.. I only deal in fact..

 

See.. You can't even ask questions about fact..

Edited June 22, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Illyean]

What your post?? Yes it is opinion.. Mine?? Well.. It is obvious you either don't know what fact is or don't care what fact is..

 

You are just ignoring everything..

 

I haven't ignored anything yet, though I reserve the right to do so as you are. Are you going to answer the questions to just keep trotting out the same argument of 'I am right and you are wrong because I say so'? I'm curious as I was wondering why people would resort to insults against your such well reasoned debate.

[MajikMyst]

I haven't ignored anything yet, though I reserve the right to do so as you are. Are you going to answer the questions to just keep trotting out the same argument of 'I am right and you are wrong because I say so'? I'm curious as I was wondering why people would resort to insults against your such well reasoned debate.

 

I did answer your questions.. As for insults?? Looked in a mirror lately?? AS for a reasoned debater?? Well.. Thjere are a few of us in this forum.. Not many though.. Sorry.. Asking questions that require someone to make a false assumption to answer kind of eliminates you as being one of them.. Have a nice day..

Edited June 22, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Illyean]

I did answer your questions.. Have a nice day..

 

I am sorry, where? You seem to be conflating your own opinion and its statement with logically deduced fact, but perhaps I have missed some nugget of wisdom somewhere in your debate.

 

I'm having a lovely day thanks, how is yours going

[Illyean]

I did answer your questions.. As for insults?? Looked in a mirror lately?? AS for a reasoned debater?? Well.. Thjere are a few of us in this forum.. Not many though.. Sorry.. Asking questions that require someone to make a false assumption to answer kind of eliminates you as being one of them.. Have a nice day..

 

What false assumption would you have to make? There is a debate about AC class change, logically it can have two results; it happens, it does not (stays as it is now). My questions are simple enough and relevant to the debate. You choose to insult anyone with a differing opinion to your own, you choose to ignore relevant questions. I personally don't give a flying **** about your opinion other that to accept it is as valued as mine is by EA/BW.

 

You do seem to think that by not engaging with the actual thread you are in some way strengthening your argument to not change the current system by adding an AC class change. You now seem to be posting only to tell me you are done, when clearly you are not.

 

I can see there isn't a great deal of point continuing this, so I'll stop (and Im going to the pub for a drink) but in a straight vote everyone is equal, this isn't a democracy though so a vote may never be called. The status quo will prevail until change is brought about, until such time as EA/BW engage with this topic there probably isn't much more to say other than to allow everyone to express their opinion.

 

the last word is yours, the next beer is mine, enjoy your evening

[Hizoka]

opinion offered as fact again, sorry.

 

various games have offered class based changes in one form or another, but that isn't the point, if the future of a game was dictated by the past of a different game we would all be playing pong.

 

Financially, sorry, neither of us is qualified to claim to be able to answer that, your hypothesis is that allowing an AC class change would result in less income (in a F2P game) due to lost, err what exactly? because people currently roll another toon of the same base class to level the other advanced class. I did this myself so I know people do, but I reject the notion that there is likely to be any significant loss of revenue as a result. Given the F2P and cash shop model now adopted its not unreasonable to think an AC class change would cost money, resulting in additional revenue. It may also result in people playing longer, spending more, rather than giving up on an AC they are not enjoying any more. Opinion, but valid, fact, certainly not!

 

Are you going to answer the questions or are you running for public office?

 

your AC is your class, that is not an option that is a fact stated by EA. If you "try" to see it as an opinion that just makes you ignorant to the facts.

 

Not everything is an opinion some things are facts, in SWTOR a vanguard is not the same thing as a commando that is a fact.

[TridusSWTOR]

Yes it is.. It is not the same character I rolled.. I also didn't level as a sage.. You learn the difference..

 

I put the effort in to level a shadow to 55.. Not a sage.. Again, you learn the difference..

 

Everyone should be required to level a class.. Now if swapping their AC meant they were taken back to lvl 1.. No worries.. Then they have to do the work for that class..

 

So you want someone to level a toon to 55 and then re-level that entire toon that they already put the work into? That makes a lot of sense

 

Kinda defeats the whole point of having an AC change.

 

So you still didn't learn the difference.

 

Changing from a shadow to a sage is fine. Learn the difference.

AC doesn't have an impact on anyone else but the player who chooses it. Learn the difference.

You need to stop trolling and stop passing yourself off as a reasonable debater. Learn the difference.

Stop controlling what other players do in the game just because you don't like it. Learn the difference.

 

I put learn the difference in everything because you can't tell the difference between what is leg work and what isn't.

 

So look up the words then come back and try again. I will be glad to debunk you just like I did in the legacy datacron thread.

[TridusSWTOR]

Some things in an MMO doesn't change and shouldn't be changed.. Let's get real here.. I played MMO's for years.. Some things don't change.. Class being one of them.. If you don't know that then perhaps you shouldn't be in this discussion..

 

WOW never made the change.. Bioware would be wise to follow their lead.. Countless other games do not allow class changes.. So why should Bioware??

 

From a financial standpoint, bioware would lose money if they allow AC swapping.. It would be a loss in content.. So again?? Think about it.. In a point of view other than your own..

 

As for the effecting another player argument?? Seriously.. That is a null argument..

 

How about a optional god mode button for people?? How would that effect you?? Seriously.. This is what gets me about the people that are attempting to argue for AC swapping.. Did it ever occur to you that your argument for how it doesn't effect someone else, could be used to justify something else?? Hence used against you??

 

How about that god mode button?? That won't effect anyone..

 

Who is asking for a god mode button? Please quote them.

 

Don't worry, we can all wait while you find that quote.

 

Oh wait...you are making things up and moving the goal post because you can't hold onto a proper argument any longer. That's fine, we can all see it clearly now.

 

News flash, class is determined by Jedi knight to trooper to Consular to smuggler. AC can't be grouped up with this, especially since they use the same main stat/storyline/companions. You're argument is null.

[Hizoka]

So you want someone to level a toon to 55 and then re-level that entire toon that they already put the work into? That makes a lot of sense

 

Kinda defeats the whole point of having an AC change.

 

So you still didn't learn the difference.

 

Changing from a shadow to a sage is fine. Learn the difference.

AC doesn't have an impact on anyone else but the player who chooses it. Learn the difference.

You need to stop trolling and stop passing yourself off as a reasonable debater. Learn the difference.

Stop controlling what other players do in the game just because you don't like it. Learn the difference.

 

I put learn the difference in everything because you can't tell the difference between what is leg work and what isn't.

 

So look up the words then come back and try again. I will be glad to debunk you just like I did in the legacy datacron thread.

 

it does impact others... You go form being a healer to a tank and you just screwed everyone you just grouped with because you have the wrong gear and you have no clue what you are doing. It does effect others.

 

Playing a shadow is NOTHING like playing a sage... If you had even the slightest clue about either class you would know that.

 

How many times do you have to be told that a sage is the not the same class as a shadow??? Hell they even use different weapons.

 

DO NOT give that BS about them sharing a story because even someone like you knows its a load of crap. This is pretty much the only MMO out there that gives different stories for even some classes. The class you pick at level 10 is your class, it is not spec it is permanent and you are told it cannot be changed in voice and in text more then once. Why do you self entitled lazy kids think that when something is "permanent" that means it should be changable?

[TridusSWTOR]

What "legwork" is required for a cosmetic change? There is a vast difference between going to the "barber shop" and leveling that new class.

 

Think before the barber shop.

 

Now come back and again reply.

 

Stop grasping at straws by the way, it's unbecoming.

[TridusSWTOR]

it does impact others... You go form being a healer to a tank and you just screwed everyone you just grouped with because you have the wrong gear and you have no clue what you are doing. It does effect others.

 

Playing a shadow is NOTHING like playing a sage... If you had even the slightest clue about either class you would know that.

 

How many times do you have to be told that a sage is the not the same class as a shadow??? Hell they even use different weapons.

 

DO NOT give that BS about them sharing a story because even someone like you knows its a load of crap. This is pretty much the only MMO out there that gives different stories for even some classes. The class you pick at level 10 is your class, it is not spec it is permanent and you are told it cannot be changed in voice and in text more then once. Why do you self entitled lazy kids think that when something is "permanent" that means it should be changable?

 

So the sage and shadow don't share the same story now? Oh wow, I never noticed that from leveling both to level 55 and noticing they are the exact SAME story. You have been debunked.

 

It doesn't impact anyone else, that group that got screwed over? They find a new person. End of story, hence why there is a group finder...to FIND other players to fill the role. As for learning the class, wow so just because they will be new at something means they should be punished?

 

I guess all level 1-10 characters should be punished because according to this poster, every new player should pay a hefty price for learning a new class. Good job welcoming new comers with that logic.

 

Sage and shadow both use the same main stat/story line/ companions. Class change would be Trooper to consular. Stop grasping at straws and stop moving the goal post to help what little argument you have.

 

You have been debunked.

[Jeweledleah]

if I take my sorc now, with her healing gear and switch to dps, lets say madness since I have no clue how to play that tree right now, despite it being one of the available trees... guess what happens? I screw over my group. because I have zero accuracy on my gear, my abilities will miss 10% of the time. because i don't really know how to play that tree, my dps will crumble even further. all that without even AC switch.

 

inconsiderate and/or not so good players affect the group with or without ac switch. ac switch will not magically turn good players who research/test their new spec before taking it into group content (as well as re gear for it) - bad. and it will have no affect on quality of bad players either. I'm not merely making this claim because i want to - you can see the proof if you pug with any regularity.

 

as for appearance change, before Kiosk was available, if you weren't happy with how your character looked - you had to reroll, or give up playing them. now, you can just go, pay some coins - and voila - character you now like... and you didn't have to go back and redo them from scratch! oh noes. PAY TO WIN!

Edited June 22, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[Ratajack]

if I take my sorc now, with her healing gear and switch to dps, lets say madness since I have no clue how to play that tree right now, despite it being one of the available trees... guess what happens? I screw over my group. because I have zero accuracy on my gear, my abilities will miss 10% of the time. because i don't really know how to play that tree, my dps will crumble even further. all that without even AC switch.

 

inconsiderate and/or not so good players affect the group with or without ac switch. ac switch will not magically turn good players who research/test their new spec before taking it into group content (as well as re gear for it) - bad. and it will have no affect on quality of bad players either. I'm not merely making this claim because i want to - you can see the proof if you pug with any regularity.

 

as for appearance change, before Kiosk was available, if you weren't happy with how your character looked - you had to reroll, or give up playing them. now, you can just go, pay some coins - and voila - character you now like... and you didn't have to go back and redo them from scratch! oh noes. PAY TO WIN!

 

How does a cosmetic change affect the fundamentals of your game play? That's right. Cosmetic changes do NOT affect fundamental game play mechanics.

[Ratajack]

Think before the barber shop.

 

Now come back and again reply.

 

Stop grasping at straws by the way, it's unbecoming.

 

Does leveling a human unlock the chiss race? No. Why should leveling a shadow unlock the ability to change that character's class to sage?

[Jeweledleah]

How does a cosmetic change affect the fundamentals of your game play? That's right. Cosmetic changes do NOT affect fundamental game play mechanics.

 

but switching talent trees does. and yet, we can already do that.

 

also... you can buy a chiss unlock. used to be credits only. now its credits or cartel coins. so... you don't have to level up a chiss, to roll a chiss jedi.

 

pay to win!