DEVS: What does "unlimited access to all game features" mean?

[CosmicKat]

This sentence:

 

"It has always been our plan that as new content is released,(such as Flashpoints, Operations, in-game events, daily hubs, etc.) that subscribers will get access to these pieces of content."

 

Well... "...has always been..." contains the past tense, meaning their plan could change.

 

"...will get access to..." We also have access to the Makeb expansion, but not as part of our subscriptions.

[Deamon_Samurai]

Incorrect.

 

Having to pay extra is, in fact, LIMITING access. Unless, of course, you have unlimited funds.

 

I have no problems with 2.1 at all -- but, they DID say UNLIMITED ACCESS to ALL UPDATES and FEATURES. They are not delivering on that, and should reset our expectations.

 

It just seems to me that the Sub is getting the raw end of the deal more and more lately. I have no probs with the F2P peeps but it sems like the line between Sub and F2P is becoming more and more blurred, especially those of us that have been here since day 1.

[curtkram]

Incorrect.

 

Having to pay extra is, in fact, LIMITING access. Unless, of course, you have unlimited funds.

 

I have no problems with 2.1 at all -- but, they DID say UNLIMITED ACCESS to ALL UPDATES and FEATURES. They are not delivering on that, and should reset our expectations.

 

It just seems to me that the Sub is getting the raw end of the deal more and more lately. I have no probs with the F2P peeps but it sems like the line between Sub and F2P is becoming more and more blurred, especially those of us that have been here since day 1.

 

they just reset your expectation:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6315554&postcount=216

 

here's the difference between free and subs. subs get a stipend to use to purchase new content. f2p players do not get that stipend:

For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose.

[branmakmuffin]

Incorrect.

 

Having to pay extra is, in fact, LIMITING access. Unless, of course, you have unlimited funds.

 

I have no problems with 2.1 at all -- but, they DID say UNLIMITED ACCESS to ALL UPDATES and FEATURES. They are not delivering on that, and should reset our expectations

When you rearrange the words in a sentence, you change it meaning (sometimes). All features (at the time the statement was made) and future updates. They are delivering exactly that.

Edited May 17, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[seekerofpower]

Look at what's in the Cartel Market that F2P players don't have free access to that subscribers do. Section X, HK-51, unlimited access to Warzones and Flashpoints, all starter Species.

 

This is no longer true. The Cathar are a Species. Once you buy them, they become a starter species. You don't have access to them without buying them, therefore, you DO NOT have access to all starter Species.

[zzoorrzz]

He has... on a couple of different posts. The statement doesn't say anything about FUTURE game features. That was his whole point. If it doesn't say anything about FUTURE features then the future features can not be assumed to fall under the same rules. It may not be pleasant, but it is right there.

 

Unfortunately I must disagree. It says "all game features". Why should I not assume from the word "all" that future game features are included as well?

[JimG]

So, to the communication team / mods, I humbly request as a fan of this game since 2008 and a subscriber since early access, that you take this concern, specifically "unlimited access to all game features" to the development staff, preferably Mr. Hickman himself since they're his words and in his position, he "owns" all decisions, and ask them to communicate back to us how we can reconcile this mismatch between words and actions.

His statement says unlimited access to all game features.....which we got when the game went F2P. His statement does not say "unlimited access to all FUTURE game features"....which is something you're trying to read into the statement that isn't there.

[jamesvasquez]

Unfortunately I must disagree. It says "all game features". Why should I not assume from the word "all" that future game features are included as well?

 

The very problem is that you are assuming. You'd be better served to not take anything at face value

[branmakmuffin]

Unfortunately I must disagree. It says "all game features". Why should I not assume from the word "all" that future game features are included as well?

Yes, all game features that existed at the time the statement was made. That's why they did not put the word "future" in front of the word "features."

[Arkerus]

Do you seriously think they won't? The genie is out of the bottle.

 

I'm quite certain they won't make that move.

 

There IS truly a fine line there. If they cross it, even the "glorious defenders" like myself will walk away.

 

I'll vote with my wallet.

 

Even if people want to mix words and claim Bioware was lazy/stupid by that "all access" comment, subs are still intended to access new area content (minus expansions) without using the cartel market.

[zzoorrzz]

Yes, all game features that existed at the time the statement was made. That's why they did not put the word "future" in front of the word "features."

 

We probably won't agree on this, but there is another thing - character customization is not really a new feature. It existed already in the time this quote was said. Now it was only extended. Do you think expanding old features = new features? Again, I don't think so.

[DarthTHC]

His statement says unlimited access to all game features.....which we got when the game went F2P. His statement does not say "unlimited access to all FUTURE game features"....which is something you're trying to read into the statement that isn't there.

 

Dead horse is dead. Community manager answered the question in another thread which I quoted in this one.

Edited May 17, 2013 by DarthTHC

[curtkram]

I'm quite certain they won't make that move.

 

There IS truly a fine line there. If they cross it, even the "glorious defenders" like myself will walk away.

 

I'll vote with my wallet.

 

Even if people want to mix words and claim Bioware was lazy/stupid by that "all access" comment, subs are still intended to access new area content (minus expansions) without using the cartel market.

 

I don't know if they will cross that line, and don't want to suggest they will

 

however, that thin line is different for for different people. what i think EA is doing, and will continue to do, is push as close to that line as they think they can. i'm pretty sure they've made decisions that have caused people to stop their sub, and i'm pretty sure some of the people that said they would quit this time meant it. if they keep trying to push that line next time and the next, they will get closer to your line and they will continue to cross other people's lines.

[branmakmuffin]

We probably won't agree on this

Not as long as you remain unwilling to accept the meaning of what was actually written.

 

but there is another thing - character customization is not really a new feature. It existed already in the time this quote was said. Now it was only extended. Do you think expanding old features = new features? Again, I don't think so.

Post-creation customization is a new feature, because we could never do it before.

Edited May 17, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Fuse_AQM]

I don't mind most things that are Cartel purchases, but the playable race should be free to subscribers. Period. As someone who has only been nearly two months and switched to a 3 month subscription last cycle this is pretty disappointing. I'm thinking this 3 months will be my last, and I was a fool for going sub over preferred.... Well, I was a fool for spending any money on an EA title... Again.

 

I had come out saying, "Hey, this game is actually really good. Sub seems worth it. Gets me everything I want and I'll totally give EA money to encourage them to make more games like this!" I even suckered a friend in. Now I'm forced to eat my hat. I've cancelled the recurring 3-month subscription for now and will be joining my friends in that new DnD based game once the time expires. That means SWTOR has about two months to change my mind.

 

It may not seem like much, but it's a sign of things to come. This is an EA title. I know how they operate and I'm not going to keep spending money if they're going to continue to give the subscribers less and less.

[jamesvasquez]

I don't mind most things that are Cartel purchases, but the playable race should be free to subscribers. Period. As someone who has only been nearly two months and switched to a 3 month subscription last cycle this is pretty disappointing. I'm thinking this 3 months will be my last, and I was a fool for going sub over preferred.... Well, I was a fool for spending any money on an EA title... Again.

 

I had come out saying, "Hey, this game is actually really good. Sub seems worth it. Gets me everything I want and I'll totally give EA money to encourage them to make more games like this!" I even suckered a friend in. Now I'm forced to eat my hat. I've cancelled the recurring 3-month subscription for now and will be joining my friends in that new DnD based game once the time expires. That means SWTOR has about two months to change my mind.

 

It may not seem like much, but it's a sign of things to come. This is an EA title. I know how they operate and I'm not going to keep spending money if they're going to continue to give the subscribers less and less.

 

Cuz new races have always been free to subscribers in every mmo ever made...

[Fuse_AQM]

Cuz new races have always been free to subscribers in every mmo ever made...

Most MMOs don't have a page that says, in no uncertain terms, that subscribers get FULL access to character creation.

[seekerofpower]

Most MMOs don't have a page that says, in no uncertain terms, that subscribers get FULL access to character creation.

 

All the new customization options have to be purchased before they are available at character creation now as well.

[Fuse_AQM]

All the new customization options have to be purchased before they are available at character creation now as well.

 

And I feel like that also goes against what I was told when I subscribed, but it's not such a big deal. It wouldn't be enough to scare me away from giving them more cash. A playable race is a whole different ball game.

[PaulyTheHut]

This is such a fallacious, semantic-parsing, ******** thread. If Hickman's statement were a binding legal document (which it is not) could we hire David Boies to protect us from the savage injustice of MMO oppression? Get over yourselves. The beauty of paying for entertainment is if you don't like it, you don' buy it. No one is making you play and no one is making you pony up for CC.

 

Regardless, I think any player with a head on his shoulders knew what Hickman was talking about and knew what was coming with the change in business model: all content PATCHES which included NON-COSMETIC features would be open for subs; all cosmetic junk would be all over the Cartel Market and we would ALL be paying for it with CCs. (Expacs are expacs, and everyone pays for those, however large or small, in MMOs.) Furthermore, I love how you are all over this ONE CLAUSE from Hickman after 2.1, when we have already been playing with a whole bunch of Cartel **** that was NOT open to subs from the get go. Now with dyes and kitties, all of a sudden we are "lawyering up" and "tearing up" over being "lied to?"

 

All that being said, and its pretty obvious that I am fine with the business model of the game right now, I respect players that don't like what they get for their sub. That's cool -- make your grievances known, ask for more CC, ask for more features, whatever. But don't go back to one clause from a blog post almost a YEAR ago and act like you found some legal proof that is going to force Jeff Hickman and a bunch of Bioware execs to be hauled away by the feds with trench coats covering their heads and 'cuffs as they get frog-marched into black SUVs.

 

Ludicrous...

Edited May 17, 2013 by PaulyTheHut

[Feztonio]

The statement is true: You have unlimited access to all game features but that does not mean you have to purchase them.

Its like this you have access to go to a automobile dealer but that does not mean you can have the car for free.

The statement is misleading but it does not say you get everything in the game for free with a subscription.

 

however if they told you that you will always have unlimited and total access to the new car you purchased, then you do not in fact have unlimited and total access to the new car, and said dealership attempted to charge you a "per use" fee on top of what you purchased the car for, then the dealership in fact lied; furthermore, no business in the world beyond a gaming company could convince you it was a good idea to pay two times for the same thing.

 

try paying for a pizza, eating it and then getting a second bill, or the day after you went to the movie theatre to see iron man 3, that a guy from Regal Cinema calls and says "hey you owe us another 12 dollars for the movie you saw yesterday".

[Fuse_AQM]

This is such a fallacious, semantic-parsing, ******** thread. If Hickman's statement were a binding legal document (which it is not) could we hire David Boies to protect us from the savage injustice of MMO oppression? Get over yourselves. The beauty of paying for entertainment is if you don't like it, you don' buy it. No one is making you play and no one is making you pony up for CC.

 

Regardless, I think any player with a head on his shoulders knew what Hickman was talking about and knew what was coming with the change in business model: all content PATCHES which included NON-COSMETIC features would be open for subs; all cosmetic junk would be all over the Cartel Market and we would ALL be paying for it with CCs. (Expacs are expacs, and everyone pays for those, however large or small, in MMOs.) Furthermore, I love how you are all over this ONE CLAUSE from Hickman after 2.1, when we have already been playing with a whole bunch of Cartel **** that was NOT open to subs from the get go. Now with dyes and kitties, all of a sudden we are "lawyering up" and "tearing up" over being "lied to?"

 

All that being said, and its pretty obvious that I am fine with the business model of the game right now, I respect players that don't like what they get for their sub. That's cool -- make your grievances known, ask for more CC, ask for more features, whatever. But don't go back to one clause from a blog post almost a YEAR ago and act like you found some legal proof that is going to force Jeff Hickman and a bunch of Bioware execs to be hauled away by the feds with trench coats covering their heads and 'cuffs as they get frog-marched into black SUVs.

 

Ludicrous...

 

What is your opinion on the store page that says subscribers get full access to character creation?

[PaulyTheHut]

What is your opinion on the store page that says subscribers get full access to character creation?

 

I wasn't able to role a Miraluka on the Imperial side (which I have now) when I first looked at the character creation screen, so I guess I was LIED TO!

 

My god man, what has Bioware done to me!!!

Edited May 17, 2013 by PaulyTheHut

[branmakmuffin]

Most MMOs don't have a page that says, in no uncertain terms, that subscribers get FULL access to character creation.

And they get full access to what was available at the time the statement was made. Does it still say that (and I'm asking)?

[Fuse_AQM]

And they get full access to what was available at the time the statement was made. Does it still say that (and I'm asking)?

 

Yes. Yes it does. It also said it two weeks ago when I dropped the cash for a 3 month subscription, and they knew it was going to change. They should have said something. They definitely need to change the page now.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Fuse_AQM