maxetius Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 here are many regular posters here that I rarely agree with, but they manage to share their opinions in reasonable, respectful, and adult ways. Then there are the wannabe cults of personality who take one stance and refuse to ever see things another way, challenging posters to defend themselves before ever dare challenging them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) Came in, posted in an extremely hostile environment when didn't have to, owned up to mistakes made. Regardless of my personal feelings, Respect and props to you, sir. Notice that the wording is the ol' "non-apology apology." "We're sorry if you felt misled," not "We're sorry we misled you." And for all my talk of reading that statement as the lawyers-speak that it is, I do believe it was misleading, since most people do no speak Lawyer. Also note he's being as honest as he can, not just plain honest. Just observations, not criticisms. He has his marching orders (and he wants to keep his job). Edited May 17, 2013 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagadeath Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Hey folks, I will just be as honest as I can here, it was a poor choice in wording on our part. I know that players have made decisions around whether to remain a subscriber based on those words which makes it all that much more sensitive. I apologize if you feel that you were misled by what we said in that blog. Since this blog I feel we have been more consistent in our messaging that you can expect things like cosmetic and convenience features (like Appearance Designer) are the types of things we usually place on the Cartel Market. It has always been our plan that as new content is released,(such as Flashpoints, Operations, in-game events, daily hubs, etc.) that subscribers will get access to these pieces of content. This is unlike a free-2-play player who will need to purchase access to that content. This is why we stated subscribers gained "unlimited" access to that content, because you get that as a part of your subscription. For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose. I realize with your stipend, and with all the features we have, you may not be able to get it all at once but you can get it in time as a subscriber. With that being said we have definitely heard your frustrations around Game Updates and the value you feel as a subscriber. I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way. -eric translation: we have altered the deal. pray we do not alter it farther. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I admit I chuckled a little. Shingara, you are quite the character. Laugh it up, the asa wernt laughing when i told them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorstram Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 a good question we shall never get an answer to, and now q the defenders, 3 2 1 go. my god, are you a wizard!?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Laugh it up, the asa wernt laughing when i told them. Well maybe not to your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Well maybe not to your face. Comedy aye, you see my sig. That is a written contract between us the players and bioware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) Hey folks, I will just be as honest as I can here, it was a poor choice in wording on our part. I know that players have made decisions around whether to remain a subscriber based on those words which makes it all that much more sensitive. I apologize if you feel that you were misled by what we said in that blog. Since this blog I feel we have been more consistent in our messaging that you can expect things like cosmetic and convenience features (like Appearance Designer) are the types of things we usually place on the Cartel Market. It has always been our plan that as new content is released,(such as Flashpoints, Operations, in-game events, daily hubs, etc.) that subscribers will get access to these pieces of content. This is unlike a free-2-play player who will need to purchase access to that content. This is why we stated subscribers gained "unlimited" access to that content, because you get that as a part of your subscription. For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose. I realize with your stipend, and with all the features we have, you may not be able to get it all at once but you can get it in time as a subscriber. With that being said we have definitely heard your frustrations around Game Updates and the value you feel as a subscriber. I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way. -eric Well I am shocked. Thumbs up to BW. However, at least now the ones that quit the game can feel a little comfort in knowing it was all you and not them. Poor choice of wording? Thats an amazing understatement. AND, since we now know you made a pretty huge mistake. You might want to change this rather misleading sales ad. It says this: "Starting this Fall, there will be two ways to enjoy the game. First, you can continue as a subscriber, which gives you unlimited access to all game features and future Game Updates at no additional charge. " Which is not true. http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20120731 Get to it. Before gamers start altering their deal with you and stop paying. Edited May 17, 2013 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorstram Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 translation: we have altered the deal. pray we do not alter it farther. Post of the week goes to this gentleman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Comedy aye, you see my sig. That is a written contract between us the players and bioware. I never signed that, did you sign it? Did Bioware sign it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Comedy aye, you see my sig. That is a written contract between us the players and bioware. It would serve you well to actually read it, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatanka Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) translation: we have altered the deal. pray we do not alter it farther. Great. Incoming CM unicycle and bright dress option. If sales of those are not high, then the deal with be further altered. Edited May 17, 2013 by Tatanka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanisawake Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Posting to get a response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlon_Nabarlly Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 translation: we have altered the deal. pray we do not alter it farther. While I disagree with your interpretation, props for making me lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faith Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 translation: we have altered the deal. pray we do not alter it farther. LOL that's just awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Hey folks, I will just be as honest as I can here, it was a poor choice in wording on our part. I know that players have made decisions around whether to remain a subscriber based on those words which makes it all that much more sensitive. I apologize if you feel that you were misled by what we said in that blog. Since this blog I feel we have been more consistent in our messaging that you can expect things like cosmetic and convenience features (like Appearance Designer) are the types of things we usually place on the Cartel Market. It has always been our plan that as new content is released,(such as Flashpoints, Operations, in-game events, daily hubs, etc.) that subscribers will get access to these pieces of content. This is unlike a free-2-play player who will need to purchase access to that content. This is why we stated subscribers gained "unlimited" access to that content, because you get that as a part of your subscription. For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose. I realize with your stipend, and with all the features we have, you may not be able to get it all at once but you can get it in time as a subscriber. With that being said we have definitely heard your frustrations around Game Updates and the value you feel as a subscriber. I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way. -eric Hi eric! any chance you could squeeze some info about possible server transfer out of anyone on the team? Regarding this update, I think the underlying issue is that all we (the playerbase) got to see at the end of this development cycle was a bunch of cash shop items. While its great that the Cartel Market is generating cash flow for the game, can you pass on to someone that cash shop items =/= content? Imho, that is the root of the problem here; we got no real 'content' in this patch at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) I never signed that, did you sign it? Did Bioware sign it? You sighed it the second your next subscription hit after f2p as you agreed to it with continue to subscribe. Edited May 17, 2013 by Shingara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PunisherAS Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Well I am shocked. Thumbs up to BW. However, at least now the ones that quit the game can feel a little comfort in knowing it was all you and not them. Poor choice of wording? Thats an amazing understatement. AND, since we now know you made a pretty huge mistake. You might want to change this rather misleading sales ad. It says this: "Starting this Fall, there will be two ways to enjoy the game. First, you can continue as a subscriber, which gives you unlimited access to all game features and future Game Updates at no additional charge. " Which is not true. http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20120731 Get to it. Before gamers start altering their deal with you and stop paying. Heres the sum I heard from him. "Sorry Subscribers, we're going to continue to make more items for the Cartel market while you grind PVP and 1 new operation every 3 months, but please make sure you spend all your money on customization and on the cartel market." We're mainly like a preferred status rather than a subscriber now. Complete garbage. All being a subscriber does for us is Unlocks Restrictions to the game, it doesn't add any new content, it just allows us an option to be able to purchase the additional content with no game restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Hi eric! any chance you could squeeze some info about possible server transfer out of anyone on the team? Regarding this update, I think the underlying issue is that all we (the playerbase) got to see at the end of this development cycle was a bunch of cash shop items. While its great that the Cartel Market is generating cash flow for the game, can you pass on to someone that cash shop items =/= content? Imho, that is the root of the problem here; we got no real 'content' in this patch at all. The content is the ability to alter your character. The dyes are content, and they don't all cost coins. Collections is content, its something for completionists to do. Just because every patch doesn't have content catered to YOUR play style does not mean it doesn't have content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaol-dirtyd Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 translation: we have altered the deal. pray we do not alter it farther. Spot on ..... however praying won't help. They have altered the deal now on several occasions and will continue to do so at their leisure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 You sighed it the second your next subscription hit after f2p as you agreed to it with continue to subscribe. No I didn't, because being able to turn my character into a power ranger for free is not the reason I pay a subscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscardeleon Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 The great thing about writing, compared to speaking, is that you can think, edit, and choose your words wisely before publishing. "Poor choice of words" is, at best, a poor excuse. A very poor excuse. When speaking on behalf of a company, as was the case here, to the population of customers (subscribers or not) and potential subscribers on something that, as was the case here, has an impact on the business relationship between the two, it's fraudulent behavior. SWTOR is a game, but it's also a business. It's not like there was some external factor that forced BW/EA to change the policy of unlimited access to whatever features to those of us already paying on a recurring basis. There was no change in applicable Law or regulations, no major out-of-your-hands event that negates the possibility of this. Nothing. At all. Poor choice of words indeed. I can understand the desire to get us, as customers, to be enthusiastic about upcoming game features, or to convince free-to-play people to take a subscription, or attract new customers. But such claims should, at least, be reviewed by your lawyers before making them public. I'm certain such kind of mistakes can be avoided in the future. Fool me once.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxetius Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 If you spent 15$ a month on unlocks you could play this game for free with almost everything. Think about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 If you spent 15$ a month on unlocks you could play this game for free with almost everything. Think about that. Then do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 The stipend we're on about can barely get you anything from the cartel market even after two months - most armor sets require like 3 months of waiting... Not a excuse for things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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