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Why 2.1 Isn't your typical "Let's bash Cartel Market" issue


DanteKardo

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Alright, before I start, I'd like to add that this is simply a topic where I want to share my personal opinion regarding the Appearance Customization Vendor that was now implemented (along the new hairstyles etc).

 

I personally believe it's been a bad move on Biowares side, and here's why.

 

Most of us can agree on the fact that, since F2P hit shelves, the Cartel Market was always a form of luxury. Items and the likes that you obtained through it where simply just that, luxury items you did not require, and that did not unbalance the game in any way for you. (except some of the crystals maybe.) All game mechanics that where implemented prior, and post the F2P release, where all accessible for Subscribers still, thus making this, in my opinion, the only 'valid' F2P transition in a long time.

 

However this Appearance Customization Vendor in my eyes is just an insult to any subscriber in my eyes, and here's why.

 

Being a Subscriber has one fundamental function. It means that, through paying the monthly fee, you get access too all the features the game provided, or provides, for said fee. That is why we pay that monthly fee in the first place. The cartel market, so far, has not hampered with this one bit, right until tonight with the 2.1 patch.

 

The Appearance Customization kiosk is somewhat of a 'first step' in a literal '**** you' direction to subscribers. Yes, I'm getting a bit drastic here. However, in the end, this is the first time SWTOR has received a new feature in it's long list of updates that, instead to be freely accessible by Subscribers (which in my opinion should've been a right-out standard thing to do), we instead are forced to pay for it through cartel coins.

 

Now the fact we're meant to spent cartel coins on it isn't the end of the world. Even with that measly allowance of 4 EUR we're given, it should surface for the purchase of new material. However, and here comes the catch, it doesn't.

 

The way the shops set up now, it's a limitless cash-sink cow with no other purpose then to exploit you of your cartel coins, for a function about every MMO under the sun (F2P or Subbed) provided in atleast some variety for free, or through ingame credits.

 

For those interested in the actual math. If you take it by face value, to use all that has been implemented with the newest 'customization' patch (By that I mean the cathar race, the new customization parts and an one time alteration of all slides) you end up paying more then a thousand cartel coins. 1050 Cartel coins are the equivalent of 8 EUR.

 

I'll make that bold to underline my point.

 

The Customization options, with an ONE TIME USE of all sliders, costs you MORE then the entire EXPANSION RothC.

 

Even less so, it certainly just shoots in the wrong direction. We've been given customization option at a nonsensical price. It may not seem much to you ,but you roughly throw out ~50 Cent with each time you move and move 'one' slide. I'll let you do the rough math on the rest. Honestly, to change your appearance once completely costs you probably 5-6 EUR for absolute nonsense.

 

And don't even compare this to other mmo's charging fees. Other MMO's provide these features for free, (Except Race change) and that one's overcharged here aswell.

 

Now, I know some will still defend EA for being a 'Business trying to make money', But seriously, this is below bad marketing. To implement FEATURES, not luxury items (as it's been the case with the Cartel Market so far), that charge you the equivalent of REAL MONEY each time you move them, is simply retarded.

 

Honestly, for 'what' unearthly reason would we, now, use this tool? some will do it just to burn through those cartel coins they have, but honestly, I personally am more then sure that I will not even take a second look at this tool unless the pricing is drastically lowered.

 

I fully understand and endorse the one-time unlock fee on the parts, but to charge you for every slider motion is just nonsense. They've literally taxed a feature of the game now. A feature Subscribers literally 'have' an entlitlement to, as being a subscriber is just that, being entitled to the full use of all of the games features.

 

thats my 2 cents on this topic. Enjoy.

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I pay for two accounts currently, and I couldn't agree with you more. I subscribed to WOW for 6 years and never once was I denied access to parts of the game. Sure WOW had specialty stuff you could buy for money (mounts minipets) but never on core game items like barbers and the like. Subscribers should get customization's for credits plain and simple. Im mean really what am I subscribing too?
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Thanks for all the comments.

 

Also, yeah, this is one of the first times since playing SWTOR ( I just resubscribed a few weeks ago) where yet again, I feel badly discouraged. This feature had me seriously riled up, and that postively at first. I frequent Ebon Hawk, the RP server, and this would've been a nearly invaluable tool for the entire roleplaying community. But I outright refuse to pay such nonsensical sums, Especially if I'm already a Subscriber and by that, should be entitled to all the games functions.

 

Honestly, I could've even stomached if unlocking this feature would've cost like 400-500 Cartel coins. Then I could atleast say they're trying to 'screw us honestly', by charging everyone for an implement feature. But that charge would've atleast been one time.

 

Another point I forgot to mention is that so far, Cartel Coins always gave you something of 'steady' value. You purchased something with it, and got something in return. whether it was a set of items, set of consumables, or what not. This Kiosk on the otherhand implemented a feature with the sole purpose of burning through Coins, at a constant (and even rapid rate for those that'd like to use this tool more frequently).

 

I'd even go asfar as to say that this starts feeling like second life, where you could just purchase virtual looks.

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I agree wholeheartedly. They will continue to push the envelope as much as they can until it won't move any more.

 

However....

 

As long as people continue to purchase these things and support the CM with the kind of numbers they appear to, there isn't any reason for EA/BW to *not* continue. EA in particular are huge proponents of the micro-transaction model as a minimum effort to maximum gain path. They may 'reverse' some easily-fixed components as long as they can justify the fix netting more than *not* fixing it, but you aren't likely going to see anything major on this front.

The only problem as I see it lies in the fact that if the push back becomes too much, EA seems to have no problems dropping the project altogether and moving on to the next one. EA doesn't really see one IP as any different from any other when it comes right down to it; it's more of "X investment yields Y% profit margin". It makes them a very successful company, but I don't see it as a positive for gamers in the least.

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I pay for two accounts currently, and I couldn't agree with you more. I subscribed to WOW for 6 years and never once was I denied access to parts of the game. Sure WOW had specialty stuff you could buy for money (mounts minipets) but never on core game items like barbers and the like. Subscribers should get customization's for credits plain and simple. Im mean really what am I subscribing too?

 

Plus they broke the game for XP users while implementing this farce. While I have a new gaming rig I always give my older computer to my son. He plays SWTOR with me but on an XP optimized machine. Really upset about this chain of events.

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If maximum profit becomes the only goal in Videogames, I will stop playing them.

 

I grew up in times where videogames where published to make children happy, and to supply oldschool gamers with products they love. at a fair price, that netted those that worked for it money, and then so more, and then that was that.

 

Also, In a way I don't believe that EA will drop SWTOR at any given time. Even if this MMO is flawed, it's still SW, and look how long it took SWG to die. The question is just how far this money grubbing system will go, and how much people will really get for their subscription fees.

 

I mean, right at this point I personally wonder if the subscription fees are worth it if every single, valuable new content will be simply taxed with more cartel coin input, forcing my monthly payment to exceed 15 EUR for this game.

 

@Shingara

 

I didn't even tackle the topic of Collections because that one is so f-worded up that I didn't even pay a seconds attention to it. Atleast not once I heard ' every inter-character unlock costs cartel coins "

Edited by DanteKardo
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If maximum profit becomes the only goal in Videogames, I will stop playing them.

 

I grew up in times where videogames where published to make children happy, and to supply oldschool gamers with products they love. at a fair price, that netted those that worked for it money, and then so more, and then that was that.

 

Also, In a way I don't believe that EA will drop SWTOR at any given time. Even if this MMO is flawed, it's still SW, and look how long it took SWG to die. The question is just how far this money grubbing system will go, and how much people will really get for their subscription fees.

 

I mean, right at this point I personally wonder if the subscription fees are worth it if every single, valuable new content will be simply taxed with more cartel coin input, forcing my monthly payment to exceed 15 EUR for this game.

 

QFT.. must make longer cos qft isnt long enough for a reply.

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This is a ridiculous thread. The customization vendor is no less optional content than anything currently in the cartel market.

 

It is not game breaking, nor NEEDED to play the game or your character properly in game.

 

It's entirely cosmetic and is entirely suited for the use of CC. In fact, it's something like this, used in this way that will help the game continue to grow and thrive.

 

Enough with these kinds of disruptive threads.

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This is a ridiculous thread. The customization vendor is no less optional content than anything currently in the cartel market.

 

It is not game breaking, nor NEEDED to play the game or your character properly in game.

 

It's entirely cosmetic and is entirely suited for the use of CC. In fact, it's something like this, used in this way that will help the game continue to grow and thrive.

 

Enough with these kinds of disruptive threads.

 

New armour models are cosmetic, do you want to tell bioware or shall i that you said all cosmetic stuff should be cc only now ?

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Nobody has called this 'game-breaking' in this thread, at all. How you perceive your money to be well spent is your own choice.

 

Also, to clarify.

 

It is not 'things like this' that make 'this game work' and 'keep it alive'.

 

'Things like this', as in this update, are the STANDARD for any alive MMO. They get updated, they get new content, sometimes major, sometimes minor, sometimes full expansions.

 

What makes 'this game work' and 'keeps it alive' Isn't people buying Cartel Coins or spending Cartel Coins.

 

What keeps this game alive is a Company called EA. A Company that decided to implement such features at a price in order to tax you for more profits through new features to pay for. Not because they need the cash desperately to pay for their employees or to keep this game alive. But because they run this game as a 'business model' as opposed to what it is, a Videogame.

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Alright, before I start, I'd like to add that this is simply a topic where I want to share my personal opinion regarding the Appearance Customization Vendor that was now implemented (along the new hairstyles etc).

 

I personally believe it's been a bad move on Biowares side, and here's why.

 

Most of us can agree on the fact that, since F2P hit shelves, the Cartel Market was always a form of luxury. Items and the likes that you obtained through it where simply just that, luxury items you did not require, and that did not unbalance the game in any way for you. (except some of the crystals maybe.) All game mechanics that where implemented prior, and post the F2P release, where all accessible for Subscribers still, thus making this, in my opinion, the only 'valid' F2P transition in a long time.

 

However this Appearance Customization Vendor in my eyes is just an insult to any subscriber in my eyes, and here's why.

 

Being a Subscriber has one fundamental function. It means that, through paying the monthly fee, you get access too all the features the game provided, or provides, for said fee. That is why we pay that monthly fee in the first place. The cartel market, so far, has not hampered with this one bit, right until tonight with the 2.1 patch.

 

The Appearance Customization kiosk is somewhat of a 'first step' in a literal '**** you' direction to subscribers. Yes, I'm getting a bit drastic here. However, in the end, this is the first time SWTOR has received a new feature in it's long list of updates that, instead to be freely accessible by Subscribers (which in my opinion should've been a right-out standard thing to do), we instead are forced to pay for it through cartel coins.

 

Now the fact we're meant to spent cartel coins on it isn't the end of the world. Even with that measly allowance of 4 EUR we're given, it should surface for the purchase of new material. However, and here comes the catch, it doesn't.

 

The way the shops set up now, it's a limitless cash-sink cow with no other purpose then to exploit you of your cartel coins, for a function about every MMO under the sun (F2P or Subbed) provided in atleast some variety for free, or through ingame credits.

 

For those interested in the actual math. If you take it by face value, to use all that has been implemented with the newest 'customization' patch (By that I mean the cathar race, the new customization parts and an one time alteration of all slides) you end up paying more then a thousand cartel coins. 1050 Cartel coins are the equivalent of 8 EUR.

 

I'll make that bold to underline my point.

 

The Customization options, with an ONE TIME USE of all sliders, costs you MORE then the entire EXPANSION RothC.

 

Even less so, it certainly just shoots in the wrong direction. We've been given customization option at a nonsensical price. It may not seem much to you ,but you roughly throw out ~50 Cent with each time you move and move 'one' slide. I'll let you do the rough math on the rest. Honestly, to change your appearance once completely costs you probably 5-6 EUR for absolute nonsense.

 

And don't even compare this to other mmo's charging fees. Other MMO's provide these features for free, (Except Race change) and that one's overcharged here aswell.

 

Now, I know some will still defend EA for being a 'Business trying to make money', But seriously, this is below bad marketing. To implement FEATURES, not luxury items (as it's been the case with the Cartel Market so far), that charge you the equivalent of REAL MONEY each time you move them, is simply retarded.

 

Honestly, for 'what' unearthly reason would we, now, use this tool? some will do it just to burn through those cartel coins they have, but honestly, I personally am more then sure that I will not even take a second look at this tool unless the pricing is drastically lowered.

 

I fully understand and endorse the one-time unlock fee on the parts, but to charge you for every slider motion is just nonsense. They've literally taxed a feature of the game now. A feature Subscribers literally 'have' an entlitlement to, as being a subscriber is just that, being entitled to the full use of all of the games features.

 

thats my 2 cents on this topic. Enjoy.

 

You get 500+ "free" coins a month. If you can't afford 20 coins to change your hair, I'm not sure what else to tell you.

 

Oh you spent it on other things that are fluff items? Well who's fault is that?

Edited by Arkerus
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To use the term 'free' coins already makes no sense. In order ot receive them one must pay. Period. Whether it's directly for them, or through a bundle and thus get awarded 500+ a month. Moreso, direct purchase of 500 coins costs 4 EUR, with larger sums getting discounts. So you can take the 4 EUR mark as the 'baseline price' for cartel coins. So technically, you don't get free coins. you pay 11 bucks subscription and 4 EUR cartel Coins.

 

Also, Again, Nowhere in my post did I say I cannot afford it. This isn't a 'whiny' topic about how 'I can't afford cartel items, this **** sucks' but it's simply a wake up call over the fact that this newly implemented system, as it is, asks a bit too much in an overall barely justifiable, but justifiable system nonethenless. Infact, If I 'felt like it', I could easily purchase the highest Cartel Coin pack on a whim, considering I earn my own living.

 

In the end, just take it by face value.

 

Some people do not like to spend their money lightly on things. I am one of them. Whether you now wish to see Cartel Coins as 'gifted', paid for, or tokens from the cherry sky doesn't matter. At the end of the day you pay for it, at the end of the day you have certain expecations for that money you're supposed to pay.

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The Customization options, with an ONE TIME USE of all sliders, costs you MORE then the entire EXPANSION RothC.

Sorry, I have absolutely zero sympathy for this. No one "needs" to change every freaking slider on their character. Change your armor all you want, but if people want to make that drastic of a change to their character's physical features, I have no issue with them charging Cartel Coins for it. Most of these changes are like 40 to 60 coins each for subscribers....well within the monthly coins given to subs. I have 13 characters and I made exactly 1 change....dropping the Twilek headband of one of my characters...and that's it. Cost 40 coins....big deal.

 

The great irony is that if appearance was THAT important to people, then they wouldn't need to make so many changes to their character because they would have just re-rolled before they got very far into leveling. If it's just a matter of hair color or eyes that someone feels a burning desire to change, then it doesn't cost much at all. Instead, you have the Burger King crowd....they just want everything their way. Appearance is pretty important to me for my characters...which is why I carefully selected their appearance when I created my characters. Anyone who needs to change every slider is just bored....appearance doesn't really have much meaning to them apparently.

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You get 500+ "free" coins a month. If you can't afford 20 coins to change your hair, I'm not sure what else to tell you.

 

Oh you spent it on other things that are fluff items? Well who's fault is that?

 

/thread pretty much.

 

Of course.. the real issue here is people want everything for free. Price tags are scary for some people.

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Add on the color system milks us for cash.

 

I can even tolerate spending cash to get the colors I want, but I can't simply go and buy the colors. I have to buy gambles packs. How about not calling it "customization" because there is nothing personal about it, it's a chance to get a pre-determined color. Very, very limited.

 

I can't even do White - Blue, the combo doesn't even exist. This is so poorly done it's sad, i'd rather not even have it.

Edited by DesmoLegacy
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/thread pretty much.

 

Of course.. the real issue here is people want everything for free. Price tags are scary for some people.

 

OOO noes, i want to spend my ingame currency ingame, what will i do, i know buy cartel coins.

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/thread pretty much.

 

Of course.. the real issue here is people want everything for free. Price tags are scary for some people.

 

Get out here with that nonsense. If pricetags would scare us we wouldn't subscribe to the game in the first place.

 

There's a difference in unwillingness to pay, and unwillingness to pay for unfair services.

 

This is such a case.

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I'm just happy that I can FINALLY vote with my dollar for the kind of features I want to see. No way was I ever going to pay for stupid packs or speeders or color crystals. So I was basically mute. But now I can finally show Bioware that look, HERE is something I'm willing to PAY for. I now have the power to vote with my dollar.
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As a subscriber we got absolutely nothing for this patch. Besides dyes on the vendors and artifice. Customization still costs real money (unless you wait every month to get your coins.) which is ridiculous. If I simply want to change my stache or hairstyle I shouldn't be charged cc for that, credits will do fine. Now if it was a species or an actual body size change then I can understand it. But charging for cosmetic thinks like a hairstyle change is just a bad business practice.

 

I don't care though. I just won't use the features implemented. (unless I stock up on Cartel Coins which I always do)

I'm still subbed and I'm hoping the next patch is exciting.

Edited by spectreclees
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