I fear for the future of this game.

[Vis-Tecum]

It scares the crap out of me. Time to get superliminal with it.

 

HEY YOU! SUB TO SWTOR!

 

 

great use of a simpsons refrence

[Uldihaa]

There is a reason for this:

 

People didn't stick too much with F2P there was retetion of players but not as much as they expected Im sure of it.

 

If you're "sure", please present the numbers to support this assertion. Not speculation, no "Well my years as a player suggests". Numbers. Facts. Not anecdotes. A link to a article where EA and/or Bioware says, "We didn't keep as many F2P players as we wanted," would also be fine.

 

Seriously, present the numbers. Anything less is just Chicken Littles running around and around crying about the sky falling.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Uldihaa

[CosmicKat]

No, they sold 2 million units, period. And only ever had a maximum of 1.7 million players, pre-F2P.

 

No one knows the exact number of subscribers lost between this point of over 500,000 but under a million and the two million new players since the introduction of F2P. Thus there never could have been a "[loss of] 1.5-2 million subscribers". They never had 2 million in the first place before they went F2P. If they lost 1.5 million, that would have placed them at 200,000, which is less than 500,000. That would be a direct contradiction of their own statements.

 

Those are the sources for my numbers, please state yours CosmicKat. I saw articles stating that SWTOR was in trouble, but ALL of them were almost a year old. The "newest" being August 2012.

 

Personally, I'm really sick and tired of the Chicken Little-like behavior going around.

 

So in essence what you are saying is that TOR started worse than they claimed and dropped to worse than they claimed?

 

And I'm a chicken little?

 

Somehow, miraculously though, in direct contradiction to all previous evidence in all F2P games of all time, 2 million new accounts is equal to 2 million customers?

[annabethchase]

So in essence what you are saying is that TOR started worse than they claimed and dropped to worse than they claimed?

 

And I'm a chicken little?

 

Somehow, miraculously though, in direct contradiction to all previous evidence in all F2P games of all time, 2 million new accounts is equal to 2 million customers?

 

No, they've esentially said that 2 million f2p trials has led to the equivalent of about 1 million subs. Plus, they've achieved this with staffing drastically below their initial plans. They have actually been profitable every single month they've operated this game and have become drastically more profitable in the past 6 months. That's an incredible turnaround for a game that had already been out a year.

 

Not going to go through all the numbers for a 700th time, but the game has been a financial success for EA, although not to their hopes and dreams. But it has made money and is now making enough per month that we're likely to see many years of continued development of the game.

[CosmicKat]

No, they've esentially said that 2 million f2p trials has led to the equivalent of about 1 million subs. Plus, they've achieved this with staffing drastically below their initial plans. They have actually been profitable every single month they've operated this game and have become drastically more profitable in the past 6 months. That's an incredible turnaround for a game that had already been out a year.

 

Not going to go through all the numbers for a 700th time, but the game has been a financial success for EA, although not to their hopes and dreams. But it has made money and is now making enough per month that we're likely to see many years of continued development of the game.

 

Which is what I've said since the start of this discussion... they have the equivalent of 1 million subs in revenue.

 

I find it genuinely hilarious how Team Spin used to post endlessly about how things weren't as bad as people were claiming pre-F2P, and now that it suits them that starting from a lower rock bottom means a greater turnaround, they are starting to spin that things were worse than the "haters" said because it makes the F2P/CM switch that much more of a miracle.

 

Comedy, pure comedy.

[branmakmuffin]

Having over 6 million copies sold when this game came out and only having around 500k subs scares me. F2P doesn't bring in as much money compared to subs, even with the Cartel market. Anyone else fear for the future of the game?

If you feel fear over the fate of a computer game, you must lead an incredibly care-free and sheltered life.

 

So no.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

I fear for the future of humanity.

 

Because it's saturated by idiocy and laziness and undeserving entitlement and moronic views on activism and achievement.

 

The only thing that keeps me from leaping off a tall building is knowing that one day we'll all die in a doomsday or an apocalypse or something and a new species will hyper evolve into the dominant life form and learn from our evolutionary faux pas.

 

I'm hoping it will be the Canines, as they are the happiest life form in the system.

[annabethchase]

Which is what I've said since the start of this discussion... they have the equivalent of 1 million subs in revenue.

 

I find it genuinely hilarious how Team Spin used to post endlessly about how things weren't as bad as people were claiming pre-F2P, and now that it suits them that starting from a lower rock bottom means a greater turnaround, they are starting to spin that things were worse than the "haters" said because it makes the F2P/CM switch that much more of a miracle.

 

Comedy, pure comedy.

 

But, they never dropped below a profitable point. That was the argument in 90% of the threads. We now have enough data points to say that they never were below profitable as by the time they were under 500k subs we had lower fixed costs through staffing reductions and soon after higher f2p revenues. So that endless argument is over, it's been profitable the whole time.

[Zergnaut]

Trying to judge the success of a f2p based game which TOR now is based off the number of subs. Is like trying to judge the power of the Tesla Roadster off the sound of the car. It just can not be done. It also is not very bright IMO. IF you do not know what that is its one of the fastest cars on the road. It is also 100% electric. So yes there will be no muscle car sound here but it burns 95% of the cars on the road lol.

 

I mean if you owned a business and you only had 20 customers but you still made 100mil/yr would you give a dang? I think not. Its all about the money the game makes that says weather it will fail or not. NOT the # of subs. Atm SWTOR is making good money obviously. And patch 2.1 will only help that fact.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Zergnaut

[CosmicKat]

But, they never dropped below a profitable point. That was the argument in 90% of the threads. We now have enough data points to say that they never were below profitable as by the time they were under 500k subs we had lower fixed costs through staffing reductions and soon after higher f2p revenues. So that endless argument is over, it's been profitable the whole time.

 

Well sure, it was making more than it cost to upkeep, but there's no way they had made back the development costs. I doubt even WoW had in a similar time.

[CosmicKat]

I fear for the future of humanity.

 

Because it's saturated by idiocy and laziness and undeserving entitlement and moronic views on activism and achievement.

 

The only thing that keeps me from leaping off a tall building is knowing that one day we'll all die in a doomsday or an apocalypse or something and a new species will hyper evolve into the dominant life form and learn from our evolutionary faux pas.

 

I'm hoping it will be the Canines, as they are the happiest life form in the system.

 

Here's hoping it's a cool apocalypse and not a crappy 2012-style one!

 

Mental note: Stock up on Snausages to bribe our doggy overlords.

[Eric_Riot]

It always feel's that these types of "look at me" threads are just trolling threads. *shrugs*

[Zergnaut]

Bioware Please close this thread. It was started by a 16yo kid who has no clue how an economy works and wanted to watch people QQ most likely.

 

I mean its like I said before if you owned a business and you only had 20 customers but you still made 100mil/yr would you give a dang? I think not. Its all about the money the game makes that says weather it will fail or not. NOT the # of subs. Atm SWTOR is making good money obviously. And patch 2.1 will only help that fact.

 

GET OUT OF THE SUB BASED MINDSET!

Edited May 13, 2013 by Zergnaut

[LordArtemis]

Having over 6 million copies sold when this game came out and only having around 500k subs scares me.

 

F2P doesn't bring in as much money compared to subs, even with the Cartel market.

 

Anyone else fear for the future of the game?

 

Where do you get that idea from? Industry analysts indicate, depending on the source, that F2P revenue is as much as three times sub revenue.

 

I can suggest some sources and reading if you would like. F2P has not doomed this game. It has saved it. What doomed it was launching in the state it was in as a sub only model.

 

Let me spell out what this could mean in very VERY general, speculative, even arguable terms.

 

You have 10 subs, 10 F2P/Preferred players.

 

Sub 1 - 15.00 month

Sub 2 - 15.00 month

Sub 3 - 15.00 month

Sub 4 - 15.00 month plus 10.00 month in CM expenditures

Sub 5 - 15.00 month

Sub 6 - 15.00 month

Sub 7 - 15.00 month plus 20.00 month in CM expenditures

Sub 8 - 15.00 month

Sub 9 - 15.00 month plus 10.00 month in CM expenditures

Sub 10 - 15.00 month

 

Subtotal - 200.00 mo

 

This is based on the following conjectures in the industry: That 3 out of 10 subs (30 percent) participate in cash shop purchases, and spend an additional 30 percent above total subscription revenue on those purchases each month.

 

F2P 1 - 145.00 month

F2P 2 - 190.00 month

F2P 3 - 175.00 month

F2P 4 - 0.00 month

F2P 5 - 0.00 month

F2P 6 - 0.00 month

F2P 7 - 0.00 month

F2P 8 - 0.00 month

F2P 9 - 0.00 month

F2P 10 - 0.00 month

 

Subtotal - 500.00 mo

 

3 out of 10 F2P players (30 percent) participate in cash shop purchases, and spend three times the total revenue of subs and cash shop purchases from subscribers combined. The vast majority of free players pay nothing, but those that do pay spend substantial amounts.

 

There you are, based on the business model. Does that happen here? Can't be said one way or another, but it's probably likely as it has worked that way in almost every game that has a similar model as this one in the market.

Edited May 13, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Uldihaa]

So in essence what you are saying is that TOR started worse than they claimed and dropped to worse than they claimed?

 

Where do they ever say that? They said 1.7 million subs. Speculating know-nothing game bloggers claimed (or expected) more; there's a world of difference between "expectations" and "reality" and only one matters. Please, provide the links that state were EA ever said they had more than 1.7 million.

 

Somehow, miraculously though, in direct contradiction to all previous evidence in all F2P games of all time, 2 million new accounts is equal to 2 million customers?

 

And somehow, miraculously enough, it also doesn't mean the game is dying, either. SWTOR monthy revenue had more than doubled since F2P. You can interpret that as you want, but it'll all be simply the speculation of a random person on the internet. Unless you have hard figures (with links please), then yes, it is running around saying the sky is falling.

[CosmicKat]

Where do you get that idea from? Industry analysts indicate, depending on the source, that F2P revenue is as much as three times sub revenue.

 

I can suggest some sources and reading if you would like. F2P has not doomed this game. It has saved it. What doomed it was launching in the state it was in as a sub only model.

 

Are these are the same industry analysts who keep telling prospective developers to "copy WoW"?

 

And yes, I'd agree that F2P has saved it in the short term. The long term is up in the air still.

[maxetius]

EA keeps UO open. Still.

 

If it turns a profit, it stays open.

 

Hate em all you want but they aren't NCsoft.

Edited May 13, 2013 by maxetius

[CosmicKat]

Where do they ever say that? They said 1.7 million subs. Speculating know-nothing game bloggers claimed (or expected) more; there's a world of difference between "expectations" and "reality" and only one matters. Please, provide the links that state were EA ever said they had more than 1.7 million.

 

 

 

And somehow, miraculously enough, it also doesn't mean the game is dying, either. SWTOR monthy revenue had more than doubled since F2P. You can interpret that as you want, but it'll all be simply the speculation of a random person on the internet. Unless you have hard figures (with links please), then yes, it is running around saying the sky is falling.

 

I never said the game IS dying, I said it WAS dying.

 

You make no sense at all. You are saying my numbers are wrong, yet they were higher than yours. Therefore, you are arguing that the game is doing worse than I surmised it was and calling me a chicken little,

[maxetius]

^ is right. The game WAS dying. That's why they canned the heck out of the WoW-worshipping Mythic developers and imported this F2P model which gives things players have asked for and were repeatedly told they would never receive. [though sadly at an added price]

[CaptRavenous]

I've seen all these same, tired arguments before.

When Lord of the Rings Online went F2P. The same arguments showing up here, showed up there.

They are still online, and doing better since they went F2P. We are already starting to see the same thing happen here.

 

At the end of the day, all you people saying "I worry about the future/direction" of this game, your worries are based upon assumptions and conjecture, at best.

 

The game is doing better, accept it for what it is.

[keysmachine]

one solid year into SWTOR and people are still trying to rain doom on this game.

 

my god when will it stop..

 

i think by year 3 the doomsayers should move on to other games to rain doom on. like ESO or some other jesus MMO that is supposed to change the world of MMO's kinda like GW2 was supposed to do.

[annabethchase]

Well sure, it was making more than it cost to upkeep, but there's no way they had made back the development costs. I doubt even WoW had in a similar time.

 

Well actually, if the development and marketing cost about 200M, the game already made it's cost back. We've never been given the final figure, but we do know quite a bit about the costs and revenue streams.

[annabethchase]

5 to 10 years from now when the game shuts down, there will be so many know it alls coming out of the woodwork saying they called it. Well duh, it will eventually end someday.

[caveslug]

And to think MMO's survived and thrived before with less then 500K subs, Before WoW, the most subs ever seen in any mmo was around 500K with EQ online. And that's from a time when servers and bandwidth, you know actually took up a big junk of an MMO's operating budget.

 

I can even remember my Sub fee for Ultima online was less then current sub fees in most modern MMO's

[keysmachine]

And to think MMO's survived and thrived before with less then 500K subs, Before WoW, the most subs ever seen in any mmo was around 500K with EQ online. And that's from a time when servers and bandwidth, you know actually took up a big junk of an MMO's operating budget.

 

I can even remember my Sub fee for Ultima online was less then current sub fees in most modern MMO's

 

bro.. don't you know in order for an mmo not to fail. and you shouldn't 'fear for the future of the game'

 

is if you have 8 million subs.