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PVP SA vs UW BA relic analysis for ~all 3 Sniper specs


paowee

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1) Summary of original post:

Conq SA and Partisan SA > UW BA and Arkanian Internal dmg relic by board / paowee

60 DPS for MM and 16 DPS for Hybrid in favor of Conq and Partisan SA relics. It looks like it is best for MM since the rotation involves spamming your main DPS ability (Followthrough) in short intervals. This makes it easy for you to catch the double power buff proc. Engineering on the other hand seems to work better with the UW relics. I'm not surprised. Your main DPS ability is on a 20 second timer and will make catching procs too difficult and susceptible to RNG.

 

Others:

Conq SA and Partisan SA > Conq SA and UW SA by greg_biochem

271 power for PVP relics versus 224 power for PVP relic + PVE relic See end of page 2.

 

Conq SA and Partisan SA = UW BA andUW SA according to greg_biochem (no parses, just math)

-assuming 100% up time-

 

Underworld Relic of Boundless Ages: 138.25 power per second

(425 power for 30 seconds every 2 minutes with 32 static)

 

Underworld Relic of Serendipitous Assault: 197 power per second

 

Total: 335.25 power per second (haven't tested with vital regulators, but I wouldn't think UW SA would stack with itself)

 

vs. 2 PvP relics WITH vital regulators:

http://www.torparse.com/l/213085

28 procs in a 4:01 fight - which averages to a proc every 8.6 seconds (332.5 power per second)

 

 

 

Original Post below:

 

99.85% Acc

1) LETHALITY/ENGINEERING

Rotation: IP - CG - CD - RS - CULL - SOS - AMBUSH - RS - CULL

Duration: 300-333 seconds

Notes: Parses cropped to end at last tick of 2nd Cull by the end of ~5 minutes.

 

Conq and Partisan SA Relics

2443 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/222865/time/1368296699/1368297023/0/Overview - 5min 23sec - 35%

2378 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/222865/time/1368297096/1368297420/0/Overview - 5min 23sec - 30%

2481 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/222865/time/1368297448/1368297771/0/Overview - 5min 23sec - 38%

2422 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/222865/time/1368297820/1368298142/0/Overview - 5min 22sec - 33%

2430 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/222865/time/1368298184/1368298491/0/Overview - 5min 7sec - 35%

2475 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/222865/time/1368301594/1368301918/0/Overview - 5min 24sec - 37%

AVG DPS: 2436 DPS

AVG CRIT: 34.66%

 

UW BA and Arkanian internal tech dmg proc relic

2340 http://www.torparse.com/a/222892/time/1368299425/1368299740/0/Overview - 5min 15sec - 35%

2420 http://www.torparse.com/a/222892/time/1368299951/1368300272/0/Overview - 5min 21sec - 34%

2433 http://www.torparse.com/a/222892/time/1368300432/1368300750/0/Overview - 5min 13sec - 36%

2489 http://www.torparse.com/a/222892/time/1368300859/1368301174/0/Overview - 5min 15sec - 35%

2429 http://www.torparse.com/a/222892/time/1368300859/1368301183/0/Overview - 5min 23sec - 34%

2412 http://www.torparse.com/a/222892/time/1368301211/1368301530/0/Overview - 5min 19sec - 34%

AVG DPS: 2420 DPS

AVG CRIT: 34.66%

 

2) ENGINEERING

Conq and Partisan SA relics

3229 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/220044/time/1368250989/1368251289/0/Damage+Dealt

23% Crit

 

UW BA + Arkanian internal tech damage proc relic

3296 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/220068/time/1368253041/1368253341/0/Damage+Dealt

26% Crit

 

3) MARKSMAN

Rotation: SOS - FT - SNIPE - SNIPE - FT - AMBUSH - FT repeat

Duration: 300-330 seconds

Notes: Parses ended with Ambush - FT then let myself fall out of combat

 

Conq SA and Partisan SA

2136 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/220180/5/0/Overview 31% crit - 5m 28s

2171 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/220180/time/1368174241/1368174555/0/Overview - 5m 14s cropped

2197 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/220193/6/0/Overview 36% crit - 5m 29s

2246 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/220193/time/1368174967/1368175282/0/Overview - 5m 15s cropped

2076 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/220202/2/0/Overview 28% crit - 5m 41s

2122 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/220202/time/1368175546/1368175860/0/Overview - 5m 14s cropped

2091 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/220208/3/0/Overview 28% crit - 5m 28s

2130 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/220208/time/1368176019/1368176335/0/Overview - 5m 16s cropped

AVG DPS ~cropped = 5m 28s + 5m 15s parses...

AVG DPS ~cropped: 2158

AVG CRIT: 30.75%

 

UW BA and Arkanian internal tech amage proc

2087 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/220216/4/0/Overview 31% crit - 5m 28s

2065 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/220180/4/0/Overview 29% crit - 5m 15s

2099 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/220216/5/0/Overview 32% crit - 5m 15s

2107 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/220221/1/0/Overview 31% crit - 5m 14s

AVG DPS : 2089.5

AVG CRIT: 30.75%

*these parses were missing 1% crit chance since I was spec'd into 1/2 Vital Regulators and 2/3 Lethality (instead of 3/3 Lethality)

 

Edited by paowee
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Fantastic post, always nice to see people being this thorough!

In the hybrid section:

Conq and Partisan SA Relics

2443 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/222865/time/1368296699/1368297023/0/Overview - 5min 23sec - 35%

2378 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/222865/time/1368297096/1368297420/0/Overview - 5min 23sec - 30%

2481 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/222865/time/1368297448/1368297771/0/Overview - 5min 23sec - 38%

2422 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/222865/time/1368297820/1368298142/0/Overview - 5min 22sec - 33%

2430 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/222865/time/1368298184/1368298491/0/Overview - 5min 7sec - 35%

2475 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/222865/time/1368301594/1368301918/0/Overview - 5min 24sec - 37%

AVG DPS: 2348 DPS

AVG CRIT: 34.66%[/Quote]

May want to recheck that average DPS. Your average should be 2438, not 2348. This means the PVP relics are slightly better than the UW/Ark pair for that spec.

Edited by namesaretough
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Done. Thanks.

 

Looks like from these tests: Conq and Partisan SA is > UW BA and Arkanian elemental dmg proc relic that I am using.. but only for MM and Lethality/Engineering

Edited by paowee
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Good stuff. Out of curiosity, did you pop your BA 3 times during the 5 minute parses? Or only twice? Since it's a rather long cooldown its DPS bonus sort of "averages" out around the 2 minute marks, although looking at your parses I don't think it's actually change your results. At most probably a 10-20 DPS shift in either direction, depending. Maybe a bit more if you only used it twice on your longer parses that are nearing 6m. Edited by Synavix
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Good stuff. Out of curiosity, did you pop your BA 3 times during the 5 minute parses? Or only twice? Since it's a rather long cooldown its DPS bonus sort of "averages" out around the 2 minute marks, although looking at your parses I don't think it's actually change your results. At most probably a 10-20 DPS shift in either direction, depending. Maybe a bit more if you only used it twice on your longer parses that are nearing 6m.

 

3 times. You can check the logs. There is no "gains Power Boost" at the start because I pop it before combat starts.

Pop power boost -> Interrogation Probe (enters combat). You will see "loses Power Boost" three times in the UW BA parses.

Edited by paowee
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I myself don't got a sniper, but my significant other is our raid groups main sniper. I figured I'd ask around here and let her know the results.

 

Currently she's grinding the ranked coms for the two PVP relics due to my telling her about the double proc with the heal. However, she also has the Underworld SA relic and a few others.

 

We've established that the two PVP beat out the Underworld BA and the Arkanian Cerulean Nova, but what about the Underworld SA and the PVP SA? I would assume the increased power doesn't beat out the double proc?

 

What about the Cerulean Nova and a PVP relic? Would it lose to two PVP relics?

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One thing i feel should be mentioned however if you are running MM the E/K proc relic is better then the I/E, because of the base armor pen within the spec

 

Underworld I/E damage is 264

 

Underworld K/E says 352, which when accounting for armor(.35) and assuming shatter shot is active(.2 armor pen) we get

then you do 352 * (1 - .35*(1-.2)) = 253.4

 

If we include the 10% armor from MM we get

352 * (1 - .35*(1-.3)) = 265.76

 

So it's not much of a difference, but still a difference in the end

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Would the same apply if the sniper in question ran with a jugg all the time in terms of raiding? And from what I've heard there is no Underworld version of that relic so is a Cerulean nova better then (until both PVP relics are acquired)? Edited by MiralukaJedi
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im more curious about conquerer and partisan vs conquerer and underworld. does any1 have parses on that?

 

Nope don't have a relic yet. But from what i read they don't supposedly double stack or "refresh each other". Don't really quite understand how it works. But with Conq and Partisan you see some weird interaction between the 2 relics. You would proc one buff, then another, and sometimes the first buff you procc'd gets refreshed at when the 2nd one procs. Something like that >_<

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Nope don't have a relic yet. But from what i read they don't supposedly double stack or "refresh each other". Don't really quite understand how it works. But with Conq and Partisan you see some weird interaction between the 2 relics. You would proc one buff, then another, and sometimes the first buff you procc'd gets refreshed at when the 2nd one procs. Something like that >_<

 

I don't have parses for what is better, but I can explain how the two interact with each other.

 

The PVE relics (Underworld and Arkanian) can only activate once every 20 seconds (regardless of if it procs on heals OR damage). The Underworld and PVP can proc separately thus giving you two power procs.

 

PVP relics have a separate proc for the heal and damage so if you are a marksman with vital regulators you've got a chance for the PVP relic to proc twice in 20 seconds (once for heal, once for damage). The PVE can also proc, but it will only proc once.

 

Thus with a PVE+PVP you have up to three procs. Two from the PVP, one from the PVE. The proc from the PVP can sometimes refresh itself so its possible to get two procs but one with a longer duration, but the PVE will only proc once.

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I've got the UW and Conq SA relics on my Sage, I'll be testing how they interact with each other in Balance (Madness) spec tomorrow. Should work more or less the same as for Snipers, since I get self-healing through DoT crits. Edited by Gondolindhrim
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im more curious about conquerer and partisan vs conquerer and underworld. does any1 have parses on that?

 

 

 

 

Underworld Relic of Serendipitous Assault: 550 power (32 static)

Conqueror Relic of Serendipitous Assault: 435 power (20 static)

Partisan Relic of Serendipitous Assault: 410 power (18 static)

 

 

 

Conqueror and Partisan:

http://www.torparse.com/l/208305

In a fight of 2:32 I gained "power surge" 14 times - or once every 10.86 seconds. (271.5 power per second)

 

Conqueror and Underworld:

http://www.torparse.com/l/208309

In a fight of 2:24 I gained "power surge" 9 times - or once every 16 seconds. (224.7 power per second)

 

 

Even though the UW SA relic gives more power, it will only stack 50% of the time (when it procs before the PvP relic). So the 2 PvP relics end up being better.

 

Note: this was without a point in vital regulators

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Conqueror and Partisan:

http://www.torparse.com/l/208305

In a fight of 2:32 I gained "power surge" 14 times - or once every 10.86 seconds. (271.5 power per second)

 

Conqueror and Underworld:

http://www.torparse.com/l/208309

In a fight of 2:24 I gained "power surge" 9 times - or once every 16 seconds. (224.7 power per second)

 

 

Even though the UW SA relic gives more power, it will only stack 50% of the time (when it procs before the PvP relic). So the 2 PvP relics end up being better.

 

Note: this was without a point in vital regulators

interesting..

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It's the small line the PVE relic has about "sharing a cooldown with similar effects" that the PVP lacks.

 

My main question is what about one PVP relic with one of the damage proc relics? Or one PVP and a clicky?

 

Or should a marksman grab two PVP relics period?

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It's the small line the PVE relic has about "sharing a cooldown with similar effects" that the PVP lacks.

 

My main question is what about one PVP relic with one of the damage proc relics? Or one PVP and a clicky?

 

Or should a marksman grab two PVP relics period?

 

So many requests! >_< You can test all those yourself if you like :). I've done 2 PVP SA versus UW BA and Ark Dmg Proc. Guy above tested 2 PVP SA versus 1 PVP SA + UW SA.

 

I will probably run 2 PVP SA relics and one UW BA + UW SA...

Edited by paowee
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Underworld Relic of Serendipitous Assault: 550 power (32 static)

Conqueror Relic of Serendipitous Assault: 435 power (20 static)

Partisan Relic of Serendipitous Assault: 410 power (18 static)

 

 

 

Conqueror and Partisan:

http://www.torparse.com/l/208305

In a fight of 2:32 I gained "power surge" 14 times - or once every 10.86 seconds. (271.5 power per second)

 

Conqueror and Underworld:

http://www.torparse.com/l/208309

In a fight of 2:24 I gained "power surge" 9 times - or once every 16 seconds. (224.7 power per second)

 

 

Even though the UW SA relic gives more power, it will only stack 50% of the time (when it procs before the PvP relic). So the 2 PvP relics end up being better.

 

Note: this was without a point in vital regulators

Thanks for testing. Now I'm gonna have to get a Partisan SA relic so I can compare 2 PvP SA vs UW SA + UW dmg proc...

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One thing i feel should be mentioned however if you are running MM the E/K proc relic is better then the I/E, because of the base armor pen within the spec

 

Underworld I/E damage is 264

 

Underworld K/E says 352, which when accounting for armor(.35) and assuming shatter shot is active(.2 armor pen) we get

then you do 352 * (1 - .35*(1-.2)) = 253.4

 

If we include the 10% armor from MM we get

352 * (1 - .35*(1-.3)) = 265.76

 

So it's not much of a difference, but still a difference in the end

 

That's not at all how armor penetration works. Bosses have 7500 armor/35% damage reduction, but after any group debuff (sunder, grav round, shatter shot) this 7500 armor is multiplied by (1-0.2), becoming 6000 armor or 30% damage reduction.

 

352 kinetic damage is reduced to 228.8 damage with full boss PVE armor, or 246.4 damage with -20% armor.

 

There's also no 10% armor penetration bonus in the Marksman tree; are you referring to Precision Ambush? The 20% armor penetration that only applies to Ambush?

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[snip]

Or one PVP and a clicky?

Or should a marksman grab two PVP relics period?

 

If you want to use a SA relic and a clicky BA relic together it would be best to use the PvE SA because it gives more power and there will be no issue with stacking. Also, the UW SA paired with the UW BA is comparable to using 2 PvP SA relics on a power per second basis:

 

-assuming 100% up time-

 

Underworld Relic of Boundless Ages: 138.25 power per second

(425 power for 30 seconds every 2 minutes with 32 static)

 

Underworld Relic of Serendipitous Assault: 197 power per second

 

Total: 335.25 power per second (haven't tested with vital regulators, but I wouldn't think UW SA would stack with itself)

 

vs. 2 PvP relics WITH vital regulators:

http://www.torparse.com/l/213085

28 procs in a 4:01 fight - which averages to a proc every 8.6 seconds (332.5 power per second)

 

...

 

So even with vital regulators, the 2 PvP relics' power per second was about the same as the max you could get from the 2 PvE relics (hitting the BA on cooldown).

 

Personally, however, I use the 2 PvP SA relics on most fights and swap out for the PvE SA and BA relics for fights with burn/vulnerability phases.

Edited by greg_biochem
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There's also no 10% armor penetration bonus in the Marksman tree; are you referring to Precision Ambush? The 20% armor penetration that only applies to Ambush?

 

"Between the Eyes"

+4% crit to SoS, FT, Snipe

+10% Armor pen (presumably to all abilities)

Edited by namesaretough
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If you want to use a SA relic and a clicky BA relic together it would be best to use the PvE SA because it gives more power and there will be no issue with stacking. Also, the UW SA paired with the UW BA is comparable to using 2 PvP SA relics on a power per second basis:

 

-assuming 100% up time-

 

Underworld Relic of Boundless Ages: 138.25 power per second

(425 power for 30 seconds every 2 minutes with 32 static)

 

Underworld Relic of Serendipitous Assault: 197 power per second

 

Total: 335.25 power per second (haven't tested with vital regulators, but I wouldn't think UW SA would stack with itself)

 

vs. 2 PvP relics WITH vital regulators:

http://www.torparse.com/l/213085

28 procs in a 4:01 fight - which averages to a proc every 8.6 seconds (332.5 power per second)

 

...

 

So even with vital regulators, the 2 PvP relics' power per second was about the same as the max you could get from the 2 PvE relics (hitting the BA on cooldown).

 

Personally, however, I use the 2 PvP SA relics on most fights and swap out for the PvE SA and BA relics for fights with burn/vulnerability phases.

 

So even with vital regulators it wouldn't be good to go "Conqueror SA" + something and would be better to use the Underworld SA if only using one? (Be it damage proc or BA) Because with a self-heal the PVP can proc twice (given the vital regulators isn't often so it doesn't proc twice very often, but still).

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