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I wish there was a Tank / Heal / DPS class


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I know something like this is way beyond the current scope of the game's design. And, I can't imagine BioWare ever adding another class due to how complex the 1-50 experience is.

 

But, just as a day-dreamy wish-list sort of comment, I wish there was a class that had Tank | Heal | Damage for its 3 spec trees. I love tanking, and I love healing. Trying to decide which one to sacrifice is making choosing a main really rough on me. :(

 

Damage, on the other hand, I get bored with quickly. And I don't need 2 trees for DPS because all that happens with any class I play is, I figure out which DPS spec I like better and then never touch the other one again except for a few specific gimmicky situations it might be better in.

 

I dream of being able to trade one of these redundant Damage specs for a Heal or Tank spec. :)

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No damage spec is redundant if used correctly.
Could you elaborate on your statement?

 

I really don't feel like I'd lose anything, personally, if I shipped off Pyrotech or Telekinetics, etc — with any class I've tried so far, both DPS specs "do damage" sufficiently enough when I'm asked to do it. I don't see what I gain from having two. :)

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Could you elaborate on your statement?

 

I really don't feel like I'd lose anything, personally, if I shipped off Pyrotech or Telekinetics, etc — with any class I've tried so far, both DPS specs "do damage" sufficiently enough when I'm asked to do it. I don't see what I gain from having two. :)

 

I would never give up on any of the 3 sniper specs. They are just so good and useful in their own way. I do have situations where I wish i had the other spec taken in a particular situation.

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Go a Mercenary. They can tank/heal/DPS :p

 

Nope. They just look the part with their heavy armor...they can take a lil bit of a beating and have only a bare minimum of damage mitigation and no taunts.

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I think he was joking, referring to Mercs being durable because of their heavy armor. ;)

 

But to be honest, if we're referring to healers that can tank, my squishy little Sage does that job in half my Group Finder FPs too — since most tanks ignore half the pull and let it merrily beat me to a pulp while they tunnel-vision one target. <desperately spams Deliverance on self> :p

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I know something like this is way beyond the current scope of the game's design.

 

It's actually not really outside of the scope of the game's design. It wouldn't be difficult to create a class capable of fulfilling each role with a different spec. Tank specs require the default presence of the ST and AoE taunts as well as a tank stance and the ability to use a shield (though the shield is *potentially* optional with some potential design choices). Heal specs require a couple of baseline heals. DPS specs just require attacks standard. None of those fundamentally required aspects are mutually exclusive. Designing a tank class with a few standard heals gets a bit wonky in design and balance, but it's not impossible (especially if one of the fundamental mechanics of the tank spec is the ability to get a free instant cast of one of those heals as a native self heal mechanic similar to what Shadows get through TkT and CT).

 

The problem, as I see it, is in justifying the presence of all 3 roles within a single class rather than, as presently exists, splitting the heal and tank capability across the 2 different ACs. It *could* have been done with the Commando (big gun and heavy armor could easily be done as a tank, especially when you consider the Hope trailer where the Commando "taunts" Malgus off of Satele with a shot to the face) since Trooper is similar to the classical "paladin" construct insofar as heavy armor and big weapons, but there aren't many other class constructs that could do it without a lot of theme wrangling. In general, standing back and healing is hard to justify is you're also capable of getting into someone's face and making sure they attack you instead of your buddies.

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In general, standing back and healing is hard to justify is you're also capable of getting into someone's face and making sure they attack you instead of your buddies.
I don't agree there. I mean the "classic" RPG healer was the D&D Cleric, right? Which had a lot of face-smashing going on. I think the "healers hide at range" thing is just a stubborn trope of the current MMO design school.

 

Plus, that's the point of the spec concept at core, really. You could argue it's hard to "justify" standing back and healing when you could spec damage and just kill everything before it hurts your friends.

 

I guess I just figured BioWare was done tinkering or adding any new play mechanics at the level of an entire AC, since most of their focus seems to be maintenance, QoL, or ... well... Cartel Market. But if the devs were up to making a class like this, I would definitely be up to playing it. :)

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No damage spec is redundant if used correctly.

 

I think he's talking more about being able to switch from dps to tank/heal when you get bored with dpsing. Snipers and Marauders (and their mirrors of course) will only ever be able to dps, dps and dps. If they ever want to tank or heal, they will have to roll another character.

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I don't agree there. I mean the "classic" RPG healer was the D&D Cleric, right? Which had a lot of face-smashing going on. I think the "healers hide at range" thing is just a stubborn trope of the current MMO design school.

 

The cleric is one the archetypal "healer" in a PnP context but it's also well known to be the most overpowered class in most versions of the game: excellent survivability (good hp, great defenses), incredible utility (spell lists are massive), good offensive capability (generally pretty accurate and, while they don't have stellar weapon choices, they get offensive spells), and they're the only really effective healers. MMOs are forced to balance that out a bit, though, to keep in mind, in PnPs, a vast majority of healing tends to take place out of combat rather than in combat.

 

The whole "hiding at range" bit for healers is actually more of an outgrowth of the necessity for consistent ability to heal entire groups: in PnP games, movement and attacks occur in discreet intervals rather than all at once which makes it a *lot* easier for healers to get into melee/short ranges to throw a heal on someone. In an MMO where everything takes place simultaneously and, oftentimes, movement comes at the express cost of the ability to act effectively, getting into melee to effectively heal a target isn't really viable. Healers act at range out of the functional necessity of operating within the confines of the genre. If healers could get from long range to melee in order to heal someone who's getting beat on and then cast said heal in the same time that it would take for a ranged character to get said ranged heal off (without giving the class absurd mobility and a massive capability to use instant cast heals so as to preserve balance since cast times and interrupts in order to allow for interrupting are the only real countermeasure for healers in PvP).

 

Plus, that's the point of the spec concept at core, really. You could argue it's hard to "justify" standing back and healing when you could spec damage and just kill everything before it hurts your friends.

 

It's actually not difficult to justify healing in a context where you're just as capable of dishing out damage for the same reason that military forces have medics out on the field: just attacking isn't a useful strategy; you need to have someone playing support for the rest of the people doing the attacking since you can't always kill things before they kill you. Healing is simply playing support for the rest of your group to make sure that they don't fall down before their enemies.

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It's actually not difficult to justify healing in a context where you're just as capable of dishing out damage for the same reason that military forces have medics out on the field: just attacking isn't a useful strategy; you need to have someone playing support for the rest of the people doing the attacking since you can't always kill things before they kill you. Healing is simply playing support for the rest of your group to make sure that they don't fall down before their enemies.
Okay, but, then, that same logic applies to choosing to heal even though you "could" tank and protect your friends, doesn't it? :confused:
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Okay, but, then, that same logic applies to choosing to heal even though you "could" tank and protect your friends, doesn't it? :confused:

 

Tanking and healing are both types of support. Tanking supports by prevent your allies from getting hurt by interposing yourself between them and harm. Healing supports by explicitly allowing your allies to remain in the fight longer than normal. Most class constructs (from a thematic standpoint, not a mechanical) are incapable of creating a justification for being able to provide support for allies from both sides of the spectrum, especially when they're largely mutually exclusive (healing is, mechanically, predicated upon *not* being hit in order to perform its function effectively; tanking is behaving in a manner that is designed explicitly to get you hit more often).

 

Like I said, it's not a question of *mechanically* implementing a single AC capable of all 3 roles. It's a question of creating a single AC that is justifiably capable of all 3 roles within the purview of its fundamental construct (i.e. it's hard to find a justification for a Jedi Watchman to be a healer since, as an AC, they're focused on chopping enemies to pieces with 2 lightsabers) without overstepping said bounds and infringing upon the domain of its paired AC. I even mentioned before that Commandos are pretty much the only existing AC that could have feasibly fulfilled a 3 roles, but it was explicitly chosen to not have it done (most likely because it would have overlapped with VG tank capability). Coming up with another class construct that is, from a thematic standpoint, equally capable of/likely to provide direct support (i.e. healing) as well as indirect support (i.e. tanking) going to be stretching it, especially while remaining loyal to the Star Wars universe (just saying "more Jedi!" isn't really going to cut it since the 4 Jedi AC already cover every major Jedi archetype).

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