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Answer for Assassins in PvP?


FromAbove

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Alright, I find myself lately having a lot of problems with sins in 55 WZs. I don't remember having that many problems pre-2.0 in 50s WZs for one reason or another, but maybe I just wasn't running into as many good ones. I'm kind of working on leveling a sin on the side to learn more about the class, but I figured I'd ask on here for some advice in coping with them as well.

 

I seem have three main problems in dealing with them.

 

First of all, I have a hard time damaging them. I was told they have a lot of DR to weapon damage so I've tried making a point of mixing in more sab charges and grenades, but as a Sharpshooter I don't have a lot of non-weapon damage options. This has always been the case and as a result I tended not to target them in group-combat situations, but obviously you can't just pretend they aren't there.

 

Secondly, and I feel like this is somewhat of a new development (although maybe not), is that attacking from stealth they can reduce me to about half-health, then restealth, then pop back out and 2-3 shot me. I'm not really sure what to do about that--Defensive Screen melts really quickly and as far as I know Dodge isn't going to mitigate Force attacks at all. Even if they don't do the restealth thing, if you're basically starting a fight with a 50% health handicap, you're gonna have a bad time.

 

Finally, the obvious response--to establish and maintain range--doesn't seem to be coming off as well as I'd like. I'm not sure how many CC-resisting abilities they have, but I get the impression that beyond some across-the-board CC-negating ability (like our Hunker Down), they also have an additional way of resisting at least roots and maybe also knockbacks. I could well be wrong here, but I definitely am not having success keeping range on them. Hightail It + Leg Shot seemed like the obvious way to go, but if Leg Shot isn't working, I'm at a bit of a loss.

 

Any advice would be appreciated, although I want to stay as a Sharpshooter spec. Thanks in advance.

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I am a Saboteur, but I can offer some advice still.

 

First of all, I have a hard time damaging them. I was told they have a lot of DR to weapon damage so I've tried making a point of mixing in more sab charges and grenades, but as a Sharpshooter I don't have a lot of non-weapon damage options. This has always been the case and as a result I tended not to target them in group-combat situations, but obviously you can't just pretend they aren't there.

 

Vital Shot ticks Internal damage. internal damage is great for getting around DR. Popping Illegal Mods should also get through some of that armor. Warzone Adrenals too.

 

Secondly, and I feel like this is somewhat of a new development (although maybe not), is that attacking from stealth they can reduce me to about half-health, then restealth, then pop back out and 2-3 shot me. I'm not really sure what to do about that--Defensive Screen melts really quickly and as far as I know Dodge isn't going to mitigate Force attacks at all. Even if they don't do the restealth thing, if you're basically starting a fight with a 50% health handicap, you're gonna have a bad time.

 

If you are behind cover, you should be sitting with your back to a wall. Our new stealth detection ability should only leave one place they can get to you - from directly behind. Randomly drop some AoE (sweeping gunfire) in that spot behind you. Other than that, there should be no sneaking up. If they do get you knocked down, use Scrambling Field and/or Hightail It away from them. You do have your CC breaker (Escape), but using that on an opening stun may or may not be a good idea.

 

Finally, the obvious response--to establish and maintain range--doesn't seem to be coming off as well as I'd like. I'm not sure how many CC-resisting abilities they have, but I get the impression that beyond some across-the-board CC-negating ability (like our Hunker Down), they also have an additional way of resisting at least roots and maybe also knockbacks. I could well be wrong here, but I definitely am not having success keeping range on them. Hightail It + Leg Shot seemed like the obvious way to go, but if Leg Shot isn't working, I'm at a bit of a loss.

 

Flash Grenade and Dirty Kick are great gap makers. Perching on the edge of a Huttball catwalk, or side of an Alderaan platform - somewhere you can drop off with ease - is another great escape mechanism. Use your environment to your advantage.

 

I've noticed Leg Shot not as effective as before too, but timing your Hightail It just right should still be effective. Make sure you're heading where they aren't facing.

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Start stacking accuracy, not just for assassins but the game is going to slowly rotate back into a tank meta, and also anyone can use a defense proc relic and just lol at you, accuracy minimized that
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Appreciate the replies from all three of you. I'd backed off of Vital Shot to an extent after reading some suggestions here on the forums, but I'll bring it back against tanks. With Flash Grenade/Dirty Kick, basically I'd been running into the same problems with that as with Leg Shot--the CC resistance--but I knew sins had at least one total CC negator, so I wasn't surprised when those weren't working. I had just noticed that Leg Shot in particular seemed to be resisted a lot, which is why I brought that one up by name. I'd been reading about stacking Accuracy so I've sort of had an eye toward that, although I've mostly just been trying to round off the Partisan set.

 

The back-to-the-wall thing though... I'd started doing that when watching nodes, but it can be kind of impractical in other situations, can't it? Especially considering our LOS-dependency. For example, trying to push into mid on Hypergate or approaching a node on Novarre, we're kind of out of luck, right? (And sadly, considering the number of matches in which pubs have been getting steamrolled on my server lately, those are familiar positions--which is why I'm here trying to make sure I'm not a liability in pugs). Although having said that, I could still try to make more of an effort to use walls.

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Appreciate the replies from all three of you. I'd backed off of Vital Shot to an extent after reading some suggestions here on the forums, but I'll bring it back against tanks. With Flash Grenade/Dirty Kick, basically I'd been running into the same problems with that as with Leg Shot--the CC resistance--but I knew sins had at least one total CC negator, so I wasn't surprised when those weren't working. I had just noticed that Leg Shot in particular seemed to be resisted a lot, which is why I brought that one up by name. I'd been reading about stacking Accuracy so I've sort of had an eye toward that, although I've mostly just been trying to round off the Partisan set.

 

The back-to-the-wall thing though... I'd started doing that when watching nodes, but it can be kind of impractical in other situations, can't it? Especially considering our LOS-dependency. For example, trying to push into mid on Hypergate or approaching a node on Novarre, we're kind of out of luck, right? (And sadly, considering the number of matches in which pubs have been getting steamrolled on my server lately, those are familiar positions--which is why I'm here trying to make sure I'm not a liability in pugs). Although having said that, I could still try to make more of an effort to use walls.

 

Keep in mind that stealth classes are going to be something of a bane to us, since we're a bane to most melee classes. Stealthers were whining on the PVP forums about us getting any stealth detection at all, so we're better off than we were before. You're probably just encountering them more than you did in the past (who knows why... I sometimes have matches where most are Vanguard and Tanks and others where we have four healers... then some without any of those).

 

I'd say the "back to the wall" tactic is more for when you are node guarding, and you're actually better off than a lot of people are there if a stealther goes for the node. If you're attacking with a group, I'd keep in mind the tactics above ( I know I learned some things), but also don't get too far from your group and don't be shy about asking for help--if you look at the advice the good stealthers give each other, it's to work the fringes. So it's better not to be too far off. You're somewhat at the mercy of how good your group is there (if you're PUGing it), but that's what it is. At least if you aren't off on your own someone is more likely to come to your aid.

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First of all, I have a hard time damaging them. I was told they have a lot of DR to weapon damage so I've tried making a point of mixing in more sab charges and grenades, but as a Sharpshooter I don't have a lot of non-weapon damage options. This has always been the case and as a result I tended not to target them in group-combat situations, but obviously you can't just pretend they aren't there.

A key to being able to beat a certain class is knowing that class, their mechanics and their cooldowns.

 

Assassins have two major cooldowns which are going to give you trouble. The first is Deflection which you'll see is purple bubble around the assassin. This gives them +50% defense to ranged and melee attacks and extra resistance against force and tech. The best thing to do if you see an assassin throw up deflection is probably to throw a flash grenade and / or run away. You're barely going to make a dent over the 12 second duration of the CD so you should try and avoid them in some way for the duration.

 

The second cooldown you want to know about is Force Shroud which you'll be able to see as the assassin starting to glow blue. This only lasts 5 seconds but renders them complete immunity to your tech attacks, which includes vital shot, sabotage charge, thermal grenade and XS Freighter Flyby. Avoid using these attacks at all costs if the assassin has force shroud up.

 

Hope these small tips give you some idea of what you're up against and how to work around it.

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A lot of the assassin 'problems' are due to controlling the opposition, ie. you (us). If you can force them into a straight dps race, you will have them.

 

My tactics then, for starting a fight with a sin; 1. If you attack a node they are at, straight into hunker down and start capping, forcing them out of stealth, and they cannot cc/control you. 2. If they can open on you before you can hunker down, make distance as soon as you can, and into hunker down.

 

Force shroud (when they are glowy), keep the dps up, but make sure it is white (weapon) damage.

 

Deflection (their 'bubble'), I try to cc then through most of this, ie. a full duration flash bang. But keep in mind that our special attacks have about 105-110% accuracy depending on how much acc you have, if you can pop Illegal mods, this jumps another 30%. So given deflection is 50% defense chance, gives us about 15% chance to miss, not too terrible.

 

Further more, a lot of sins don't bother too much with accuracy, so diversion is pretty useful here too for the acc debuff, hence increasing their chance to miss.

 

Hope this helped.

 

Edit; and of course; keep them at range, you have two knock backs, a root and a roll :)

Edited by THobbsy
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Thanks to all of you for what's been really useful advice. I get so used to seeing the histrionics on the PvP threads that I sometimes forget that forums can be useful.

 

This was interesting to me:

 

1. If you attack a node they are at, straight into hunker down and start capping, forcing them out of stealth, and they cannot cc/control you.

 

For whatever reason I'd always thought you couldn't cap a node while in cover, but now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever actually tried it. I'm excited to give this a go cause I routinely find myself going for nodes knowing full well I'm about to get CCed by a stealther but hoping I'll be able to respond well enough to survive.

Edited by FromAbove
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I'm guessing you are having issues w/ deception assassins, and yes, our burst out of stealth is crazy.

 

You have two main things that you can do. First, always always always try to create a gap between us. Do not let us be in melee range, or we will completely control the fight. You can either roll away, or pop cover pulse + leg shot. You are best at range, and deception sins are HORRIBLE at range (> 15m). Second, if he does not have cloak, you can use entrench, and be safe from the stunlocking that would otherwise inevitably follow. Usually we try to save our cloak for when you entrench, and yes, I do so hate entrench.

 

Also, when he cloaks, follow up immediately with an AoE at the vanish spot. Most good assassins know that you really have to use cloak (to disappear) + shroud (to wipe dots) + speed (to avoid the inevitable AoEs), but if speed is on cooldown for example it is hard to get away.

 

Also putting your back to a wall really helps in making yourself a harder target to attack. But usually this also screws up the camera angle, so it is harder to get a broader overview of what is going on. I have actually popped blackout, sneaked up behind a gunslinger w/ his back to the node, unstealthed and capped the node. Again, due to the way the camera works, you can't see directly behind your back, because it will most likely zoom in on you. Just something to be aware of...

 

Our only real defence against you is deflection, which is 50% increase to ranged defences. You can pop your accuracy buff when you see the purple bubble. And no, our bubble does NOT give us 25% force/tech damage reduction, that is only for warriors. So you can continue using yellow attacks.

 

Other than that we have shroud, but dps specs get only 3 seconds, so we have to use it carefully and tactically. We can also escape through cloak and/or phase walk, but prefer to finish you off instead if we can. :p You mentioned a lot of your attacks got resisted... again I'm guessing you went up against a sintank w/ a lot more defence, so you simply missed. Sintanks don't do as much damage as deception, but they don't take as much damage either, so it will probably be a war of attrition for you.

 

Tanks get another cd in the form of overcharge saber, which not only heals them but also gives then 25% damage reduction for 15 seconds.

 

Oh, and when a deception assassin spikes you out of stealth and you eat a maul, do NOT pop your 3 second cooldown (which gives 100% defence). We usually follow up w/ force attacks (discharge and chain shock), so your cd will be wasted. Save it for later instead, when we have to start using our melee attacks again.

 

You mentioned you had a hard time damaging assassins, I'm guessing you fought a sintank. As a SS you won't do squat against tanks, but they don't do as much damage as dps either. Against a dps spec, you guys will do tons of damage.

 

For whatever reason I'd always thought you couldn't cap a node while in cover, but now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever actually tried it. I'm excited to give this a go cause I routinely find myself going for nodes knowing full well I'm about to get CCed by a stealther but hoping I'll be able to respond well enough to survive.

 

There is good and bad in this. Yes, you are forcing him out of stealth, however, as an assassin I will tell you that I will park myself between you and the node. Now you cannot knock me back, and I am at my most devastating when I am in melee. You would probably need to do something like flash bang me and move away ,and then I have made you waste your entrench.

Edited by CBRGhostRider
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Don't forget to put XS Freighter Flyby on yourself. Melee players will sometimes stand in this, and it is a lot of damage.

 

And yes, cap in cover always. It is a little of topic, but if you are in cover, then you have higher ranged defense and you can't be leaped to or pulled. If a warrior can't leap to you, you can often get a cap off if they are the only one coming for you. Also, ranged classes will sometimes have their attacks dodged by you while in cover. Great idea overall.

 

I would maintain that in SS you should definitely bait out an assassin with Hunker Down while capping. The fact they can start the fight on their terms is the most annoying thing about them. Once they are in the open, you can do more about them. Because you are in SS, you have a reduced cooldown on Hunker Down too, so you might even be able to use it again later.

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  • 1 month later...

These are all good points. I would like to add another means of escape.

 

If you put 2 points into Hold Out Defense, your Blaster Whip (Kinetic Damage) will give you a 50% speed boost. This is a great gap creator that you can mix in. Works well when combo'd with a knockback, snare, or root. With a 6s CD, this will make the sin waste his sprint to catch up. Because of this back to back Blaster Whips works wonders. The negative, is getting caught with your backturned to the sin. To prevent this, do a jump 180 into cover to maximize your defense (Ballistic Dampers).

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As a sharpshooter, you won't fair well against any decent assassin. They are your kryptonite , especially if they open from stealth. Keep them dotted, call for help, blow defensive cooldowns and try to keep them occupied until the help arrives.
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