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Madness or Lightning


Riksem

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Ok, so ive noticed that before 2.0 many of you said that lightning dmg couldnt come close enough to madness to make it a viable option. But now that thundering blast has that bonus along with other changes i have to ask is lightning more relevant now?? In my opinion as the sorcerer is meant to be palpatine type character and i love force lightning. My previous spec didn't include TB and i had that ability that made FL have no cooldown and i was good with that, but here is the thing that kills me... If i get TB then i cant get death field, or the madness ability let alone wrath because the points run out right before DF or madness so i suppose what i'm trying to ask is, is TB worth it after the forked darkness boost or is it better to hybrid up to wrath or even further. Thx.

 

P.S. I mostly PvE but I am still curious as to your PvP thoughts and opinions as well Thx again. :)

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Ok, so ive noticed that before 2.0 many of you said that lightning dmg couldnt come close enough to madness to make it a viable option. But now that thundering blast has that bonus along with other changes i have to ask is lightning more relevant now?? In my opinion as the sorcerer is meant to be palpatine type character and i love force lightning. My previous spec didn't include TB and i had that ability that made FL have no cooldown and i was good with that, but here is the thing that kills me... If i get TB then i cant get death field, or the madness ability let alone wrath because the points run out right before DF or madness so i suppose what i'm trying to ask is, is TB worth it after the forked darkness boost or is it better to hybrid up to wrath or even further. Thx.

 

P.S. I mostly PvE but I am still curious as to your PvP thoughts and opinions as well Thx again. :)

 

Before 2.0 Lightning was not a viable option because it was too easy to shut out. If you put one good DPS on the lightning sorcerer you could pretty much guarantee that the lightning sorcerer would be permanently out of the fight and your investment would yield a good return (your DPS buddy makes it out alive).

 

In 2.0 lightning became much better due to the increased burstiness which justifies some of the downtime. It still suffers being shut-out but not with a 100% return on investment (a fight with a lightning sorcerer could go 50/50 depending on the class). Force barrier helps them avoid the pile-on situation giving them time for some heals.

 

Lightning is stronger, but it still suffers the mobility issues. To deal awesome damage you are essentially a turret, without defensive cooldowns for turrets (see snipers). The hybrid spec utilizes the energy management and burst of the lightning spec, but with much greater mobility (except when channeling force lightning all day). The hybrid is a much stronger duelist which can help at pressuring off-nodes.

 

Madness is strong numbers wise, but not pressure wise. The specialization took a HUGE hit when they removed instant whirlwind. The energy management issues are still there if you want to deal burst damage. If you're dealing sustained damage you don't have energy problems but the enemy team never dies.

 

The burst in the full-madness specialization comes from a critical hit on death field + chain shock. Shock is very expensive for a madness sorcerer.

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my main is healer...

when we need dps I field respec to dps and then I choose lightning.

 

lightning tree = melt all thing.

 

so many aoe insta crit proc on that tree...

 

Polarity shift + Recklessness + chain lightning as opener gives you insta 6 k aoe damage then because it's crit you get free no casting time chain lightning again with recklessness bonus again for another 5-6k aoe damage.

Spam affliction all around for free force lightning.

you get also double chain lightning\ lightning stirke \ TB most of the time.

you also got unlimited force power.

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I have been playing around with a madness-heavy hybrid recently. I've always been full Madness in the past, but the fact that Wwrath now works with Lightning Strike and Chain Lightning too makes running the hybrid the best DPS choice IMO. if you spec it properly, you can get the best of both worlds: great burst damage, great force pool/regen, and nice AoE + DOT. Honestly, the hybrid has been nothing but awesome for me so far. Still don't like the cast times of full lightning but it's a lot better now in 2.0 than it ever was before.
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but the fact that Wwrath now works with Lightning Strike and Chain Lightning too makes running the hybrid the best DPS choice IMO. i

 

Not sure what u mean here. Wrath still only procs Lightning Strike and Crushing Darkness.

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I have been playing around with a madness-heavy hybrid recently. I've always been full Madness in the past, but the fact that Wwrath now works with Lightning Strike and Chain Lightning too makes running the hybrid the best DPS choice IMO.

 

Wrath cannot be used on Chain Lightning. It hasn't been useable on Chain Lightning since 1.2, which dropped more than a year ago. You can use it on Lightning Strike or Crushing Darkness. That's it.

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Wrath cannot be used on Chain Lightning. It hasn't been useable on Chain Lightning since 1.2, which dropped more than a year ago. You can use it on Lightning Strike or Crushing Darkness. That's it.

 

He might have been referring to this 2/16/28 build, which if you use Lightning Strike on a wrath proc when Crushing Darkness is on CD, can give you a chance to proc Chain Lightning due to the Lightning Storm ability. Its also pretty hilarious to drop a Death Field, Force Storm followed by the almost guaranteed Chain Lightning proc. How you get to the Lightning Storm ability is entirely up to how you like to play.

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it truly depends on what your role will be.

 

currently, a Madness Sorc is basically as good if not better than a tank to defend a node. if you are really skilled you can actually win 1on2 situations or delay the opponents for so long that your back up will have all the time it needs to arrive, especially now that they gave us Force Barrier.

btw, nothing like watching your opponent losing his hp's from your dot's while you are just standing there, arms in the air and gaining some health back from the crits. Force Barrier is insanely cool with Madness.

 

once mastered, it's truly one of the best dueling specs in the game, with insane kiting and very sneaky damage.

at first the opponent thinks you aren't doing much, then the dps starts to build up and death usually comes very quickly. if you have all your offensive cooldowns available and with a bit of luck on your cirts, you can kill someone almost as fast as a Sniper would. of course it's not all the time, but it can come in very handy and it's really nice considering it's a DoT spec.

 

it's true that Madness took a big hit with the whirlwind not being an instant CC anymore, but the spec would have been completely OP otherwise because of all the control and Force Barrier.

 

Lightning is more of an "all right let's clean this mess" kind of spec. insane burst, but yeah, you are a turret, mobility is terrible and you need to be left alone in order to develop the true potential of the spec dps-wise.

personaly I can't stand it, because I like being able to run as I please, defend nodes on my own and win key situations. a Lightning Sorc is a dps machine, nothing more, very little utility, not to mention how important Creeping Terror can be for Huttball. some people like that and that's fine, so it's all about what you and your team want/need.

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i think it's all a playstyle question.

I like my Lightning heavy hybrid build, Force Lightning as main single target attack, but clipping it immediately when Wrath procces, for 5.5k Lightning Strike, which can proc Chain Lightning.

 

In AOE, nothing beats Death Field, Force Storm, Chain Lightning.

 

It's a mobility build though, for raid bosses, the Madness heavy (2/16/28) build is better dps from the dots.

 

I tried full Lightning, but 1.5 sec cast time spamming got on my nerves, and full madness is just lacking the utility and regen of Lightning tree. That's why I say, it's just a matter of taste.

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For me at least, it comes down to what is more fun to play, which is a very personal choice.

 

In that regard, Lightning trumps Madness all the way. I love the 'whoosh' when a thundering blast races towards a hapless target, as well bombarding mobs from long distance with all manner of deadly electricity. Forked lightning FTW! Madness just boring in comparison. To me, at least.

 

That said the downside of Lightning is that many abilities have a casting timer which stops when you move, so you're basically planting your feet in the ground for the duration of the casting timer, all the while hoping the bosses aren't conjuring nasty aoe underneath your feet before your timer runs out. So yeah, less mobility, and I can see some players finding that annoying.:t_smile:

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From my experience, 30/16 is the way to go now. It's versatile (wrath, barrage, roots on knockback, bubble-stun). It also has an awesome AOE burst.

 

Madness has no burst so far, compared to Lightning. And in 2.0 it doesn't offer you an instant whirlwind. Creeping terror must be up for a long period of time to deal it's full damage. Deathfield's crits are about 1.5-2k lower than those from the Chain Lightning.

 

However things may change with full Conq gear. Madness has some heal from dots. The bigger your hp pool is, the bigger your dot-heal is.

 

currently, a Madness Sorc is basically as good if not better than a tank to defend a node. if you are really skilled you can actually win 1on2 situations or delay the opponents for so long that your back up will have all the time it needs to arrive, especially now that they gave us Force Barrier.

This is simply not true. For ~5 seconds you will be the best node guardian ever - yes i agree with that, lol. After entering the Force Barrier mode, your opponent will most likely try to cap the node, and you have to interrupt it. Not to mention the 3-minute CD on it. This few seconds is no way better the utility a tankasin can offer for a node guarding.

 

btw, nothing like watching your opponent losing his hp's from your dot's while you are just standing there, arms in the air and gaining some health back from the crits. Force Barrier is insanely cool with Madness.

In a premade setup your dots will be cleansed and you will be dead in a few seconds.

 

once mastered, it's truly one of the best dueling specs in the game, with insane kiting and very sneaky damage.

Your kiting is over whenever you're slowed and your cleanse is on cd, or when you're slowed by a tech ability. And you're dead.

 

Lightning has always been viable and even more so now. However, madness and hybrids are a lot easier to play and more mobile.

It was not viable pre 2.0. However if you're a king of the battlefield and spending your time hiding behind the objects, while leaping monkeys acquired their targets... well it's an absurd. Whenever a leaping monkey targets you (usually it's a train) - you're dead. The ways to go pre 2.0 for a dps were either Madness or Hybrid.

Edited by Taankjr
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Unfortunately nobody responded until almost 5 days after i posted so i went with full lightning i like it alot and before 2.0 i ran hybrid with the no force lightning cooldown but now with chain lightning and tb and lightning strike being more usable my Force lightning is ready to go when im done i love the feeling when u see that 2nd tb activate so yeah im doing good now but i just read everything and thx for ur answers as of now
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I've been loving lightning personally. I've always been a fan of slower to charge, massive attacks, and watching procs, as well as instant casts. Lightning seems like my spec because it has all of these things. It's also fun being that guy in the back letting loose with piles of aoe.

 

I love playing turret classes, especially ones that feel as bursty as lightning does at the moment. Unfortunately, when you get piled on, it's less fun, and you can't run and gun quite as well, but I'll take that.

 

Yes, you get locked out. I was just in a warzone where I was getting locked by a sage that made it his mission to follow me around and interrupt everything I did, but this is where juking comes into play as well as being smart about your los and stuns. If you're aware of your surroundings, you'll spend the majority of your time blowing things up rather than waiting for a lockout to end.

Edited by CyberTronX
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I prefer Lightning by far. But then again, I was an elemental shaman in WoW, so stubbornly that I played it in two expansions where it was more or less completely not welcome, or just buffs for the 'real' dps. Lightning is an elemental shaman, both in elemental theme, and in playstyle. I don't feel that handicapped on a Lightning Sorc. Yeah, you die when the leap train comes a-choo choo'ing in, but that's the fate of almost every class in this game. I've always, on every class I've ever played, on any MMORPG I've ever played, been a real big LoS abuser. That's obviously useful for both specs (and arguably more useful for madness), but it lends itself well to the strengths and weaknesses of lightning.

 

Madness is a good spec. It may statistically be better, but I don't feel it. The Madness sorcs on my server get blown up a lot (it's possible they suck though). I never found it as satisfying though. There's that occasional moment of exultation after you win a protracted duel with a class/player you KNOW thought they had you easily, but there's so little institutionalized 1v1 in this game that that's a rare moment unless you're just one of those people that duels all the time. The bgs are too small to permit 1v1s for the most part. I try to find 1v1s all the time (it's hard to learn anything when you are either on top of the world, or getting zerged by 4 marauders at once), but people keep wandering into them.

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From my experience, 30/16 is the way to go now. It's versatile (wrath, barrage, roots on knockback, bubble-stun). It also has an awesome AOE burst.

 

Madness has no burst so far, compared to Lightning. And in 2.0 it doesn't offer you an instant whirlwind. Creeping terror must be up for a long period of time to deal it's full damage. Deathfield's crits are about 1.5-2k lower than those from the Chain Lightning.

 

However things may change with full Conq gear. Madness has some heal from dots. The bigger your hp pool is, the bigger your dot-heal is.

 

 

This is simply not true. For ~5 seconds you will be the best node guardian ever - yes i agree with that, lol. After entering the Force Barrier mode, your opponent will most likely try to cap the node, and you have to interrupt it. Not to mention the 3-minute CD on it. This few seconds is no way better the utility a tankasin can offer for a node guarding.

 

 

In a premade setup your dots will be cleansed and you will be dead in a few seconds.

 

 

Your kiting is over whenever you're slowed and your cleanse is on cd, or when you're slowed by a tech ability. And you're dead.

 

 

It was not viable pre 2.0. However if you're a king of the battlefield and spending your time hiding behind the objects, while leaping monkeys acquired their targets... well it's an absurd. Whenever a leaping monkey targets you (usually it's a train) - you're dead. The ways to go pre 2.0 for a dps were either Madness or Hybrid.

 

I have been playing Madness since launch and there are a few amazing Madness/Balance players on my server, so trust me, I know what I am talking about. I see it happen basically everyday, this isn't just speculation, these are facts from countless warzones (I specialize in node defense btw).

 

when I was talking about being as good as a tank, it wasn't just about Force Barrier. with Madness you can make even 1on2 fights last more than a full minute, especially with nodes like the ones on Civil War or Novare Coast.

 

of course, if you suck at kiting and self-healing, and don't use your stun and roots at the right times, you can forget it, but good Madness/Balance players are incredibly hard to kill. Force Barrier is just an added bonus.

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