Assault spec viable for pve?

[Threefittiez]

- so is it?

- anyone tested it out or is the gap in dps btw gunnery that bad?

- if the dps gap isn't that big (gunnery vs assault) what stats should I focusing on? 100% accuracy? crit/surge? pwr/surge?

 

many thanks for the replies

[GeckoOBac]

- so is it?

- anyone tested it out or is the gap in dps btw gunnery that bad?

- if the dps gap isn't that big (gunnery vs assault) what stats should I focusing on? 100% accuracy? crit/surge? pwr/surge?

 

many thanks for the replies

 

It was tested on the PTS before the cell dot nerf and it was parsing close to gunnery, but still slightly under IIRC. In any case, the nerf in the dot damage should make it quite worse than gunnery now, as it was the main damage contributor to the pve spec.

 

Regardless, accuracy is required at 100% for ALL dps specs, as tech/force skills (thus dots too) will be resisted too otherwise. Also, unless you have some kind of auto crit skills in your rotation, it's not good to forego completely crit from itemisation.

 

Gunnery does benefit from alacrity, but assault probably benefits less, at a glance. It's likely you won't see much difference going full surge (after capping accuracy) rather than going surge/alacrity

[Nitromonger]

Right now, burst damage is what you need because of the insane amount of healing possible. In that department Gunnery commando will burst WAY harder than assault. This is coming from someone who played assault from 1.1 until 2.0. Ask any healer if they would rather heal though spike damage or smooth consistent damage and they will tell you they prefer smooth damage.

[Haggardbr]

- so is it?

- anyone tested it out or is the gap in dps btw gunnery that bad?

- if the dps gap isn't that big (gunnery vs assault) what stats should I focusing on? 100% accuracy? crit/surge? pwr/surge?

 

many thanks for the replies

 

I could say it is.

 

I'm a rifle user commando (and before you say I'm nuts, I do keep an upgraded cannon in my inventory for when I need it) and I have always used the assalt spec.

 

It may not output as much direct dps as gunnery, since I see it as a DoT spec. I you gotta keep he target "bleeding" (in this case, burning) to keep the dps flow.

 

This is my specs with most mods Lv66 or Lv69 and a rifle (fully loaded):

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x324/Haggardbr/swtor2013-04-2520-17-09-27.png

 

And this is the skill tree combination I use:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800bZMccZfhrrzorffdz.3

 

You see that my primary min/max dps is comparable to a vanguard rolling assault too. You can also see and I admit that, I'm still working on my critical and accuracy.

 

What I look forward to when I'm gearing is main stat > power > critical > accuracy > surge > endurance, since I'm a dps and that's a personal choice, you can prioritize that as you see fit.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Haggardbr

[oaceen]

you guys realize he's not talking about PVP, right?

[Haggardbr]

you guys realize he's not talking about PVP, right?

 

Yup... I didn't mention about PvP any time. All I said is about PvE.

[Nitromonger]

Yea, I don't know why I jumped into the pvp comparisons. I run as gunnery for pve myself. Is it viable? I'm sure it is and as long as your guild isn't the bleeding edge progression type you should be able to play as you want.

 

There was some research assembled on the PTS to compare DPS numbers on the training dummies which has been posted here ------->http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=615432

[GeckoOBac]

Yea, I don't know why I jumped into the pvp comparisons. I run as gunnery for pve myself. Is it viable? I'm sure it is and as long as your guild isn't the bleeding edge progression type you should be able to play as you want.

 

There was some research assembled on the PTS to compare DPS numbers on the training dummies which has been posted here ------->http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=615432

 

Bear in mind that ALL PTS numbers were BEFORE the nerf to the Plasma Cell DoT, which is the biggest contributor to pve dps.

[Haggardbr]

Bear in mind that ALL PTS numbers were BEFORE the nerf to the Plasma Cell DoT, which is the biggest contributor to pve dps.

 

But they also said even though plasma cell was a little nerfed in DoT dps, it activates more often and I'm an assault commando and I see that happening... so it was a "six by half a dozen" change so to speak in my point of view.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Haggardbr

[oaceen]

But they also said even though plasma cell was a little nerfed in DoT dps, it activates more often and I'm an assault commando and I see that happening... so it was a "six by half a dozen" change so to speak in my point of view.

 

you also intentionally run assault without charged bolts, so your point of view is rather meaningless

[Haggardbr]

you also intentionally run assault without charged bolts, so your point of view is rather meaningless

 

Oh God... here we go again...

[oaceen]

Oh God... here we go again...

 

i'm honestly not trolling you (although, yes, it definitely appears that way).

 

what i mean is, any discussion of viability is meaningless if you would also tell people that charged bolts is not necessary for assault (as you have said many times) and saying things like 'my damage (pri) is comparable to vanguards'. it is not evidence for anything at all and proves absolutely nothing whatsoever.

 

 

 

i leveled as assault. i completed a few 55 flashpoints on live and even all of the ops on test as assault, but i haven't raided since 2.0 hit live as assault, so i'm not going to make bold-faced claims to a spec's viability without having anything to back it up.

 

so, back to the topic, i have quite a bit of data now for my gunnery on live and will be testing out assault next week and can post my impressions and comparisons then.

Edited April 26, 2013 by oaceen

[Haggardbr]

... if you would also tell people that charged bolts is not necessary for assault ...

 

Dude I never said that charged bolts is not necessary. You might've confused me with someone else.

 

Te fact that I use a rifle instead of a cannon for general stuff EXCEPT operations, doesn't mean I said charged bolts are useless or unecessary. It only means that using a rifle, you cannot use neither charged bolts or hail of bolts.

 

When I do need to use the cannon, in an operation per example, you can be sure I use charged and hail of bolts, but with a rifle, my own rotation is different and I don't feel the lack of such abilities when rolling dailies or flashpoints.

[ArchangelLBC]

I could say it is.

 

I'm a rifle user commando (and before you say I'm nuts, I do keep an upgraded cannon in my inventory for when I need it) and I have always used the assalt spec.

 

It may not output as much direct dps as gunnery, since I see it as a DoT spec. I you gotta keep he target "bleeding" (in this case, burning) to keep the dps flow.

 

This is my specs with most mods Lv66 or Lv69 and a rifle (fully loaded):

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x324/Haggardbr/swtor2013-04-2520-17-09-27.png

 

And this is the skill tree combination I use:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800bZMccZfhrrzorffdz.3

 

You see that my primary min/max dps is comparable to a vanguard rolling assault too. You can also see and I admit that, I'm still working on my critical and accuracy.

 

What I look forward to when I'm gearing is main stat > power > critical > accuracy > surge > endurance, since I'm a dps and that's a personal choice, you can prioritize that as you see fit.

 

 

Please disregard absolutely everything this person says. It is pretty much all quantifiably either wrong or misleading (for example the same primary weapon damage as a Vanguard, while true, is misleading because the vanguard will still do more damage than you with a rifle).

 

Also, while somewhat irrelevant since they don't compete directly, but accuracy is more important than Critical Rating in 2.0. I honestly wouldn't take any crit in 2.0, especially not in assault (so many tech crit chances).

 

His spec also represents a gross misallocation of points in PVE.

 

But they also said even though plasma cell was a little nerfed in DoT dps, it activates more often and I'm an assault commando and I see that happening... so it was a "six by half a dozen" change so to speak in my point of view.

 

 

That was BW being either idiots or misleading jerks. Both versions of assault have a way to proc plasma cell 100% of the time in 2.0 so the increase in proc rate is absolutely meaningless, and the damage nerf is in no way proportional to the increased proc rate even if that wasn't the case.

 

Dude I never said that charged bolts is not necessary. You might've confused me with someone else.

 

Te fact that I use a rifle instead of a cannon for general stuff EXCEPT operations, doesn't mean I said charged bolts are useless or unecessary. It only means that using a rifle, you cannot use neither charged bolts or hail of bolts.

 

When I do need to use the cannon, in an operation per example, you can be sure I use charged and hail of bolts, but with a rifle, my own rotation is different and I don't feel the lack of such abilities when rolling dailies or flashpoints.

 

 

Right because in a discussion on PVE viability we actually care about dailies? Also if you don't feel the lack of charged bolts on Flashpoint bosses, that reinforces the notion that you are a baddy. How does it feel to be carried in every flashpoint you partake in?

 

Honestly the only reason to bring up the rifle again in a thread like this is to be a troll. And you aren't even a good one. People like you are why the forums are generally considered a cess pit.

[Haggardbr]

Honestly the only reason to bring up the rifle again in a thread like this is to be a troll. And you aren't even a good one. People like you are why the forums are generally considered a cess pit.

 

I sincerelly think the same about you.

 

I'm not trolling around... people like you don't accept that other people want to play how they want to play. Just as simple as that.

 

Elitism is what spoils the joy of a game for some people not the different point of view from different people about a subject.

 

And as far as I know, dailies ARE PvE content.

 

Enough said.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Haggardbr

[GeckoOBac]

But they also said even though plasma cell was a little nerfed in DoT dps, it activates more often and I'm an assault commando and I see that happening... so it was a "six by half a dozen" change so to speak in my point of view.

 

I don't even want to enter the discussion about other stuff, let me just tell this: I suck at assault in pve, yet I was able without any trouble to keep a 100% uptime on the cell dot on the PTS BEFORE the increased chance.

 

It was simply and easily a nerf, both in pve and (to a somewhat lower extent) in pvp.

 

It was also quite directly aimed at vanguards that can have a 100% proc chance on the dot with one of their HIB resetting skills. The fact that the nerf carried over to commandos is just pitiful.

[KeyboardNinja]

Despite what was mentioned in one of these replies, there *was* a PTS parse for Assault spec posted after the Plasma Cell nerf, and it was in the ballpark with all the other DPS specs in the game. Unlike Assault Vanguards (who are still better off hybridizing into the Aim talent), Assault Commandos should go all the way up to AP and use it in rotation.

 

Direct comparisons to Gunnery are a bit tricky though. Compared to Gunnery, you have two major advantages: extremely steady, sustained damage, and mobility. Gunnery, on the other hand, provides the (very significant) utility of an armor debuff maintained in rotation, which is something only one other class (Guardian) can provide. Additionally, their damage is extremely bursty, which is preferred over sustained damage in nearly all PvE content.

 

If my guild had an Assault Commando who really felt comfortable in the spec, I wouldn't say anything to dissuade him nor would I prejudice against him in raid selection (even for top-tier progression). I would, however, need to be certain that we had a different class with armor debuff capabilities, as well as ensure that we have enough on-demand burst and target-swap capacity in the rest of the raid.

 

Overall, I think Gunnery provides better utility, but Assault is definitely viable in terms of damage output. You will likely see them more in 16 man raids than in 8 man, purely because a larger raid allows for greater specialization in raid utility.

[Haggardbr]

I don't even want to enter the discussion about other stuff, let me just tell this: I suck at assault in pve, yet I was able without any trouble to keep a 100% uptime on the cell dot on the PTS BEFORE the increased chance.

 

It was simply and easily a nerf, both in pve and (to a somewhat lower extent) in pvp.

 

It was also quite directly aimed at vanguards that can have a 100% proc chance on the dot with one of their HIB resetting skills. The fact that the nerf carried over to commandos is just pitiful.

 

 

Yeah I notice I can keep the cell up more often now, but I don't know if it's me or whatever... I just don't notice the decrease of damage that much.

 

Maybe it's more perceptible in vanguards, I don't know.

[GeckoOBac]

Unlike Assault Vanguards (who are still better off hybridizing into the Aim talent), Assault Commandos should go all the way up to AP and use it in rotation.

 

Can't say I looked at every single parse, but the highest ones I've seen were without AP. Admittedly it was before they've changed it, but like I said I didn't really see any parse after the nerf

[ArchangelLBC]

I sincerelly think the same about you.

 

I'm not trolling around... people like you don't accept that other people want to play how they want to play. Just as simple as that.

 

Elitism is what spoils the joy of a game for some people not the different point of view from different people about a subject.

 

And as far as I know, dailies ARE PvE content.

 

Enough said.

 

 

Right because there was ANY reason to bring up the rifle thing in this thread specifically about assault? No, you just wanted attention because apparently the only way you can have fun in a game is if everyone is paying attention to that wacky commando using a rifle.

 

Also if elitist is asking people to play the best they are able then yeah, guilty as charged. If you TRULY believed the crap you're spouting you wouldn't be carrying around that assault cannon because apparently even you can admit that form over function is only something you should inflict on your flashpoint groups.

 

But you're so intent on being the poor persecuted martyr who is being oppressed by those meanie elitists that you sit here and claim you "just wanna play how you want" even though I've said at every turn that as long as you aren't actively hindering your group do whatever you want.

 

But please do tell me how I'm the troll. This should be good.

[Gyronamics]

I've played Assault since beta and I just can't give a crap about it now.

 

Compared to Gunnery

 

Less burst

Less sustained damage

Buff can be cleansed and costs more ammo or is much weaker damage for the GCD it costs to apply

Two buff attacks have a hidden 6s CD which means the attack will not apply a burn less than 6s from the last one (no burn = no dmg buff and no HiB)

Guaranteed to be weaker on the first 70% of a target

Requires someone elses armour debuff to meet dps target or underperforms without it

Requires more setup/ammo investment on each new target

 

 

And whatever the hordes of Gunnery players thought, the 4 set bonus sucks for Assault too under the point of more ammo investment on each new target.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Gyronamics

[Macroeconomics]

That was BW being either idiots or misleading jerks. Both versions of assault have a way to proc plasma cell 100% of the time in 2.0 so the increase in proc rate is absolutely meaningless, and the damage nerf is in no way proportional to the increased proc rate even if that wasn't the case.

 

This. Moreover even if you didn't use the 100% CGC proc method, simply using your basic attack gave you about an 87% chance of procing CGC. Thus boosting that slightly higher in no way compensates for a 50% nerf in damage. It simply is NOT "six of one half a dozen of another".

 

Right now Arsenal/Gunnery will parse higher AND provide a armor debuff on the target for teammates, AND take less damage due to Power Barrier/Energy Rebounder. Merc Pyro/Commando Assault is a dead spec. Once the last 1 or 2 people per server stop playing it, BW will take notice and then 4 months later will buff it. Until then avoid at all costs.

[Haggardbr]

Right because there was ANY reason to bring up the rifle thing in this thread specifically about assault? No, you just wanted attention because apparently the only way you can have fun in a game is if everyone is paying attention to that wacky commando using a rifle.

 

You know what, let's do the best for both of us. You ignore me so you can't see my posts or whatever and I ignore you, a person that doesn't understand that a game is not a life, heh?

 

Thanks and take care.

[_biddan_]

You know what, let's do the best for both of us. You ignore me so you can't see my posts or whatever and I ignore you, a person that doesn't understand that a game is not a life, heh?

 

Thanks and take care.

 

this is pretty much like using an electrostaff on a shadow pre 2.0

[oaceen]

here is a SM TFB i just ran full assault.

 

here is my commando as gunnery doing SM TFB last week.

 

 

 

 

one thing to note about the first boss fight: we killed the boss so quickly (when i was assault) that we only had one jealous male appear.

also, we had a lot of first-timers for my run as assault, so when we did kephess, we missed maybe 2 or 3 towers from knocking him down, and in spite of that, i still did more dps as assault

 

 

 

anyway, so comparisons:

 

writing horror

assault: 1916

gunnery: 2235

 

 

heirad, ciphas, kel'sara

assault: 2422

gunnery: 2494

 

 

operator IX

assault: 1180

gunnery: 1292

 

kephess

assault: 2403

gunnery: 2189

 

terror

assault: 1620

gunnery: 1579

 

 

 

 

i feel they're pretty close at any rate. i'll try to get some HM comparisons if anyone else would like me to.

 

 

for anyone curious, i run 1/9/36 for assault

Edited May 4, 2013 by oaceen