sauerkraut Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Not everyone would have the same gear; moreover, if you REALLY do not like the bolster system you will go play ranked from the get-go (assuming bolster is removed from ranked). Eventually most of you will have the same gear after you grind though ranked....if all you want to do is race-roll noobs go hang out on a loobie planet & open world PvP. The rest of us with lives outside SWTOR would prefer not to deal with it in WZ's. Bet this is your firs MMO. An MMO is about progress, without progress there is no point to play it, most importantly there is no point to pay 180 bucks a year, if all i need is a bolster. I wanna get something for my money, other than Cartel Coins. Fortunately BW must make money somehow, so they can't just cater F2P players, however the bolster definitely makes subscription pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallerup Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 This over and over and over I understand we need a "fair and competitive" Warzone, but you guys forget this is not a first person shooter this is a ROLE PLAYING GAME, and gear grinding and getting the best loot to dominate is PART OF ROLEPLAYING GAMES. Now we don't need to make it so fresh 55s hit like a butterfly, but seriously if you have pvp gear YOU SHOULD HAVE A SLIGHT ADVANTAGE. Don't like it? Well suck it up and get the gear. you do.. you have more hp... Bolster only gives you so much and if you go into a warzone in full green PvE gear, you will be bolstered with expertise, BUT your hp will still be the same, meaning you are easy prey, just like the recruits on lvl 50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirGusto Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 i just hit 55 yesterday. Been wearing my min/maxed EWH gear. I'm so pissed they removed the expertise on it, but thats a different story. Anyway, with the bolster, going in with no expertise, i get 1800 some, bout 54% dmg boost. My main dmge stats still go up, which is alot of power and willpower. I'd go around inspecting people, and see this guy with half partisan or so, but he's down to 1600 some expertise. At the moment, there is absolutely no reason to even bother with pvp gear. The damage boost caps at 60%, i get 54% with none. Now i'd hate to see what its like with the top end raid gear getting 1819 expertise with their already super high bonus dmge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodEnoughForMe Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 The idea of bolster is good. The fact that I spent all my Planetary Coms on Makeb stuff for my level 52 GS, only to find that I had 4k less HP and 150 less damage in WZs from before having Makeb stuff, is not. The way it reads and rewards/penalizes certain gear is still hopelessly bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fregger Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Bet this is your firs MMO. An MMO is about progress, without progress there is no point to play it, most importantly there is no point to pay 180 bucks a year, if all i need is a bolster. I wanna get something for my money, other than Cartel Coins. Fortunately BW must make money somehow, so they can't just cater F2P players, however the bolster definitely makes subscription pointless. *sigh* Achievers Also known as "Diamonds," these are players who prefer to gain "points," levels, equipment and other concrete measurements of succeeding in a game. They will go to great lengths to achieve rewards that confer them little or no gameplay benefit simply for the prestige of having it. --> You Killers "Clubs" is a very accurate moniker for what the Killer likes to do. They thrive on competition with other players, and prefer fighting them to scripted computer-controlled opponents. --> me http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartle_Test Btw. the mother of all MMORPGs did not have gear progression. Quite the contrary, upon death you lost everything you had on your body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devlonir Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Bet this is your firs MMO. An MMO is about progress, without progress there is no point to play it, most importantly there is no point to pay 180 bucks a year, if all i need is a bolster. I wanna get something for my money, other than Cartel Coins. Fortunately BW must make money somehow, so they can't just cater F2P players, however the bolster definitely makes subscription pointless. You still get an advantage to progress towards. Grind out your Conqueror gear. Case closed. Guys, please stop repeating this useless point. Conqueror > all in the current situation. So maybe Partisan in some slots isnt BiS because of some issues in Bolster, Conqueror still beats all others. And you need Partisan slots to get Conqueror gear. Your long term goal is clear: Get Conqueror gear and have the best you can achieve in this game, PVP gear wise. So there is something to achieve towards. Stop repeating this false point over and over and over again, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devlonir Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 (edited) i just hit 55 yesterday. Been wearing my min/maxed EWH gear. I'm so pissed they removed the expertise on it, but thats a different story. Anyway, with the bolster, going in with no expertise, i get 1800 some, bout 54% dmg boost. My main dmge stats still go up, which is alot of power and willpower. I'd go around inspecting people, and see this guy with half partisan or so, but he's down to 1600 some expertise. At the moment, there is absolutely no reason to even bother with pvp gear. The damage boost caps at 60%, i get 54% with none. Now i'd hate to see what its like with the top end raid gear getting 1819 expertise with their already super high bonus dmge. Are you sure it's half partisan, and not just some fool still wearing some EWH offhand/weapon with expertise crystals in completely gimping his Expertise? Or someone with actual Partisan weapon/OH who took out their expertise crystals? Mixing non-expertise and expertise mods is the major reason for people in 'Partisan' getting less Expertise. As well as people taking out expertise crystals from Partisan weapon and offhands as was standard practice before 2.0. Both of these things are very bad to do, and in almost all cases of "people in Partisan with low expertise" i have inspected, these two issues were what caused them to be gimped in expertise. They basicly marked their items as PVP items by putting at least 1 expertise mod in, and then gimp their expertise because not all mods have expertise. I understand them doing it though, as it was standard practice pre-2.0! So many people might still be stuck in the 'old ways' so to speak. Therefore, I always ask for people showing screenshots of all the gear of people when they go around claiming it. Man.. this whole discussion will probably end if TOR had an Armory-like website where we can check people's gear online.. Edited April 26, 2013 by Devlonir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 You still get an advantage to progress towards. Grind out your Conqueror gear. Case closed. Guys, please stop repeating this useless point. Conqueror > all in the current situation. So maybe Partisan in some slots isnt BiS because of some issues in Bolster, Conqueror still beats all others. And you need Partisan slots to get Conqueror gear. Your long term goal is clear: Get Conqueror gear and have the best you can achieve in this game, PVP gear wise. So there is something to achieve towards. Stop repeating this false point over and over and over again, please. Partisan is pretty solidly ahead of Arkanian on a spot to spot comparison and probably still better than Conqueror (this gets into theorycraft land). You've some weird cases when comparing to blue 66 gear, because some of these have very generous item budget (implant/ear for example) and gets nearly maximum expertise from Bolster. Still, it's not like PvP in blue 66 gear is a viable long term solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 They basicly marked their items as PVP items by putting at least 1 expertise mod in, and then gimp their expertise because not all mods have expertise. I understand them doing it though, as it was standard practice pre-2.0! So many people might still be stuck in the 'old ways' so to speak. Therefore, I always ask for people showing screenshots of all the gear of people when they go around claiming it. Man.. this whole discussion will probably end if TOR had an Armory-like website where we can check people's gear online.. It's actually pretty simple. Any item with Expertise on it gets NOTHING from Bolster. This means mixed gear is strictly worse than even pure PvE gear, so if you replace your mixed gear with pure PvE gear you'd definitely have way better stats, but that's because you're using the worst possible gear out there. I was PvPing on one of my alts with the a WH weapon and I couldn't find 41 power crystal to replace my WH crystal, and then I realized that I should just pull out the crystal and the weapon would be better as now it'd have no expertise and get about ~180 expertise for free from bolster, instead of having just 41 expertise (from crystal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devlonir Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 It's actually pretty simple. Any item with Expertise on it gets NOTHING from Bolster. This means mixed gear is strictly worse than even pure PvE gear, so if you replace your mixed gear with pure PvE gear you'd definitely have way better stats, but that's because you're using the worst possible gear out there. I was PvPing on one of my alts with the a WH weapon and I couldn't find 41 power crystal to replace my WH crystal, and then I realized that I should just pull out the crystal and the weapon would be better as now it'd have no expertise and get about ~180 expertise for free from bolster, instead of having just 41 expertise (from crystal). Exactly, and people who are apparently so busy with gear, should also be busy with this. Make sure that each gear slot has maximum actual expertise on it for the item level it has.. so expertise in each mod slot of the item. Or make sure each slot that does not have maximum expertise for it's item level, has no expertise at all. That's the only guideline to PVP gearing at this time. Follow that one guideline (and make sure it's not Battlemaster gear you are wearing, but Partisan or Conqueror), and you have more efficient gear than Bolster. Break that one guideline, and your gear will be gimped compared to Bolster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asavrede Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Do away with PvP gear. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcgregorya Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 (edited) Btw. the mother of all MMORPGs did not have gear progression. Quite the contrary, upon death you lost everything you had on your body. I started my PVP RPG online gaming with a MUD that started in 1991 (I started playing around 1994). Text based RPG. You had to type and alias commands and you could 'PK' (player kill) people and all their gear would stay in their corpse and you could take whatever you wanted. There were a lot of unique items in the game, so it really sucked losing those. I played that game like 12 years before I even started looking at MMO's. I mean I played WoW for like 10 minutes when it came out but even that was too grindy and the PVP seemed "pointless" because there was no penalty for losing and it was mostly just gankfests. Then I played Eve Online a bit, which wasn't quite as harsh as the MUD I played, but much harsher than WoW. Then I come here and people who are like 10 years old want to tell me what a progression is and what RPGs are - and somehow its all about gear. As if WoW invented the genre and gets to dictate how every game afterwards works. **** WoW and **** your gear. Keep it. I'm here to fight . Eve Online, GW2, GW1, etc all have horizontal progressions. Eve you progress til you get your first ship PVP ready - takes a couple months (which is about how long it takes to figure out the game). Then your "progression" is whatever you want it to be - either melting people in da pew pew or carebearing or whatever. Tired of these WoW brats telling people what their pastimes should be. Edited April 26, 2013 by dcgregorya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecto Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Bet this is your firs MMO. An MMO is about progress, without progress there is no point to play it, most importantly there is no point to pay 180 bucks a year, if all i need is a bolster. I wanna get something for my money, other than Cartel Coins. Fortunately BW must make money somehow, so they can't just cater F2P players, however the bolster definitely makes subscription pointless. Actually, my first MMO was Ragnarok online, & I played WoW for a short time on a free server......but that didn't last too long seeing as how the guy running it was spending maintenance donations on crack. I still log in & PvP with or without bolster.....I'm just overjoyed that I don't have "fresh recruits" on my team any more. Beyond all of this, I'd say that there is a massive amount of PvE content at this point....more than enough to warrant my subscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkPharohEclip Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Actually, my first MMO was Ragnarok online, & I played WoW for a short time on a free server......but that didn't last too long seeing as how the guy running it was spending maintenance donations on crack. I still log in & PvP with or without bolster.....I'm just overjoyed that I don't have "fresh recruits" on my team any more. Beyond all of this, I'd say that there is a massive amount of PvE content at this point....more than enough to warrant my subscription. How did everyone know he was spending it on crack? Sounds like something I might do, but it wouldn't be crack it would be heroin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShatteredVision Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 How something could be so broke, but get so little attention from the devs is pretty frightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawelc Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Do away with PvP gear. Fixed. IE let raiders own pve and pvp, yup solid plan. What do you have for pvpers to get into Nim S&V? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isislol Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 How something could be so broke, but get so little attention from the devs is pretty frightening. Not the first time that happened. If it was any other MMO broken bolster would be either fixed the next day or removed all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Do away with PvP gear. Fixed. Buck naked PVP? Been there done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuorInglorion Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Signed. A guy had 3 pvp pieces, green lvl 54 stuff, some lvl 50 blues, His 3 pieces were chest/gloves/boots. I am only missing 3 pieces. He was bolstered to more HP, expertise, and all the other fun stuff than I am. How in the hell is that working right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhalDrogoe Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Most people I ever saw in warzone had custom gear to fit their style and didn't stick with the stock pvp gear look. I mean you see guys in sand people outfits. Is the reward for pvp reduced to cosmetics? If not for performance then you're saying for my valor stat? All it really means is "I spent my time in warzones but all I got was this T-shirt". That may float your boat but it doesn't tack with any reasonable gear progression. To me it would be the PVE equivalent of saying "hey anyone can now jump into OPS and flashpoints without the messy unnecessary need of gear. Don't worry if you have greens, we will make them tougher so you can complete them for sure. Oh hey and by the way when you kill that tough mob at the end he drop uber gear that really won't help you perform better, but it looks nice. Thanks I hope you're mindless enough to keep playing." The better analogy would be... fresh 55's are ruining raiding. However now that they're in there, they're bolstered to be able to down the content. However Partisan Gear is bolstered to better stats than 72's. What's the point of raiding to get 72's if I can just have better stats with the PvP gear bolstered to be equal to 72's!? I don't need the drops anymore, so I just use them to outfit companions. Now that I have no more incentive to raid, I'll just do the content once, and once I beat it just QQ on forums until they give me more raids and gree events... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillack Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 OP must be a smash monkey.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecto Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 (edited) How did everyone know he was spending it on crack? Sounds like something I might do, but it wouldn't be crack it would be heroin. After the server went down mysteriously (he wasn't maintaining them) and we all lost our characters and data he owned up to it and apologized. That is, while he was asking for us to all chip in more money so he could get it up & running again -- learned my lesson. PS: I've noticed that the gear indifference is back ....I think it is safe to assume PvPers can stop whining again lol. My pug teams are getting decimated by Sith after say about 10:00pm pretty regularly.... Edited April 30, 2013 by Lecto additional info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trakmiro Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Players wearing PvE gear still have more Expertise than my full set of Partisan gear. How does this make sense? Bueler.....Bueler?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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