LOL Latest Bolster Change Was Pointless

[keedo]

I'm still going to use the majority of my raid pieces in warzones. The new change only lowered my expertise bolster by 100, so I'm comfortable with just over 1600 expertise given everything i'm getting from PvE gear.

 

Limiting the bolster by select pieces of gear is not a proficient solution to the problem. The real problem is that the bolster is set too high to begin with. Realistically a change that would limit the total expertise bolster to not exceed 40% of the player with the highest expertise would be more sufficient for solving the problem than the previous changes.

 

For instance, if Bob has 2000, Joe has 0, and Mary has 600 expertise both Joe and Mary would have their expertise bolstered up to 800.

 

A change like this would create an incentive to get and a purpose to equip PvP gear.

 

Granted I do not believe the 55 bracket should be bolstered to begin with, but if it must a change like this would be best IMO.

Edited April 24, 2013 by keedo

[ML_DoubleTap]

And would put the balance right back out of whack. If you are good, you don't need the advantage. Be good.

[skarlson]

The whole point of bolster is to make PVP competitive. They have to balance that with not making PVP gear completely pointless by making it worth getting. They cannot however make it totally necessary and it would be if there was such a disparity. 2000 vs 800 expertise? Honestly, who would even bother playing against someone who has 2k expertise with only 800? Would PVP be fun for someone just starting out and therefore needing to grind for partisan gear? Not likely! I think a more balanced approach is the way to go and they can adjust from there. Personally I say get rid of expertise altogether but that's another topic.

[painterwhit]

And would put the balance right back out of whack. If you are good, you don't need the advantage. Be good.

 

it's not an issue of being good. It's an issue of it doesn't matter if you're good if you don't also have a healer that is good....otherwise you are getting steamrolled.

[keedo]

And would put the balance right back out of whack. If you are good, you don't need the advantage. Be good.

 

I think you're missing my point which is that my PvP gear is still inferior to my PvE gear, which is why I'm still using my PvE gear.

 

It took some time to get a set of PvP gear at least give me a reason to wear it. That's all I'm saying.

Edited April 24, 2013 by keedo

[Covaltage]

And would put the balance right back out of whack. If you are good, you don't need the advantage. Be good.

 

Yeah! Why would you expect your PvP gear to be more effective in PvP than leveling greens? If you are a good player you shouldn't want better gear than your opponents because you should want more of a competition! It's not like the new bolster system has taken away the incentive to grind WZ comms or anything! Oh wait...

[ML_DoubleTap]

Yeah! Why would you expect your PvP gear to be more effective in PvP than leveling greens? If you are a good player you shouldn't want better gear than your opponents because you should want more of a competition! It's not like the new bolster system has taken away the incentive to grind WZ comms or anything! Oh wait...

 

Haven't checked the changes yet...I'm at work...but, they were supposed to make Conqueror and Partisan both better than any PvE gear. If that's not the case, I agree, but I don't think the advantage should be as great as a 60% advantage as the OP mentioned. If you're talking about WH/EWH, well that gear is out of date and is no longer PvP gear...get over it and grind the new stuff.

[KeeperOfSajuuk]

Yeah! Why would you expect your PvP gear to be more effective in PvP than leveling greens? If you are a good player you shouldn't want better gear than your opponents because you should want more of a competition! It's not like the new bolster system has taken away the incentive to grind WZ comms or anything! Oh wait...

 

This is the same old QQ I've been reading for a while now. I've been grinding WZs the last two weeks, to get my Jugg into full Partisan, and I can say, unequivocally, that 55 greens do not go toe-to-toe with Part/Conq geared players. The bolster is necessary, but a fully Partisan-geared Jugg, vs a 55 greens Jugg, is no contest, bolster notwithstanding.

 

I don't understand the arguments made by PvPers over bolster. It's like they haven't squared off against someone in greens yet. If they were fighting an Underworld-geared player, with the current 'bolster-bug' that might be one thing, but they're complaining about a newly levelled 55 in greens? Bolster doesn't give a significant advantage, imo, just enough to be mildly inconveniencing.

[L-RANDLE]

Haven't checked the changes yet...I'm at work...but, they were supposed to make Conqueror and Partisan both better than any PvE gear. If that's not the case, I agree, but I don't think the advantage should be as great as a 60% advantage as the OP mentioned. If you're talking about WH/EWH, well that gear is out of date and is no longer PvP gear...get over it and grind the new stuff.

 

 

I still see no reason to get PvP gear. Even with my current set of WH/EWH, I am bolstered to 27k HP, 2k +MAIN and 1800 EXP. Is there a BiS DPS PvP set that can match that? Possibly, but is it worth spending Ranked Comms on? At this point I say hellz, to-the, no.

 

I know "6% EXP", but seriously, even the Conq set has 2% less bonus damage than my "out of date" WH/EWH stuff. so its functional increase is not 6% and armor rating about the same. I need to min/max on askmrrobot to get an idea, but I am not as optimistic as you are...

[SomeJagoff]

I'm still going to use the majority of my raid pieces in warzones. The new change only lowered my expertise bolster by 100, so I'm comfortable with just over 1600 expertise given everything i'm getting from PvE gear.

 

Glad to see Hardcore Raiders in PVE gear still have the gear advantage over PVPers in PVP gear.

[Philastra]

From what I am hearing theres a major bug with augments, I am not auged yet to see, waiting to hear from Eric about it.

[Rabelle]

I don't understand why they just don't add a vendor that hands out an unlimited amount of free pvp gear that is just a fraction lower than partisan but with the same expertise and call it a day.

 

They could be home with their families barbequing juicy steaks instead of scratching their heads over this bolster crap.

 

That way there would be no doubt that even the best pve gear would be worse than pvp gear in pvp and there is no pumping up stats by re-equiping mods. Not to mention that we actually would know what stats we will have in a wz before we enter.

 

I haven't said anything at all about this up til now but I'm getting sick and tired of this bolster circus. I realise that it is not an easy task to get the algorithms right which is all the more reason to flush it.

 

I don't mind having it in lower brackets because there is no real pvp gear down there but for everything that's holy, please kill it in 55.

[Cerdo_hormiguero]

Glad to see Hardcore Raiders in PVE gear still have the gear advantage over PVPers in PVP gear.

 

Yep, what an idiotic system.

 

PvE should NOT have an advantage over PvP gear.

[Astarica]

People who think a difference of 600 expertise (about 20% damage) doesn't matter simply can't do math. I have about 30K in DPS gear in a mix of Conqueror + Partisan gear with endurance stim. I have never seen anyone with 36K HP that isn't in pure tank gear (easily verified by their damage numbers at the end of a WZ). By the way, even if you had 36K HP, you still can't make up the 20% difference because you also do less damage to me, as you certainly do not do 20% more damage for having PvE gear.

 

What people don't realize the expertise advantage is squared. If a full UW gear guy fought a full Conqueror guy in open world (no bolster), let's say for some inexplicable reason both characters have identical DPS and HP. After you throw in expertise, it'd look like:

 

Conqueror - Base 1000, does 1600 damage after Expertise on UW guy

UW - Base 1000, does (1000/1.6) = 625 damage due to Expertise reduction to damage on Conqueror guy.

 

The Conqueror guy does (1.6)^2 or 2.56X the damage on the UW character after you factor the fact that he's also taking significantly less damage.

 

Now of course the UW actually has better stats, but he's not going to do 60% more damage or have 60% more HP. He'll probably take like 3% less damage (from higher armor, but that'd have no effect on internal/elementl damage and reduced effect on armor piercing attacks, which are common), have maybe 20% more HP, and do at most 20% more damage, which is nowhere close to the blanket 60% bonus expertise. That's why even UW armor gets bolstered because you don't want a guy in max PvE gear getting totally slaughtered without even a chance.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Astarica

[Doctor-Raider]

Remove bolster from 55 PVP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW!

 

I wanna see this:

 

2.0.2 Patch notes - Bolster removed from 55 PVP, Free EWH set for hitting lvl 55 with ~1500-1600 Expertise!

[Cerdo_hormiguero]

People who think a difference of 600 expertise (about 20% damage) doesn't matter simply can't do math. I have about 30K in DPS gear in a mix of Conqueror + Partisan gear with endurance stim. I have never seen anyone with 36K HP that isn't in pure tank gear (easily verified by their damage numbers at the end of a WZ). By the way, even if you had 36K HP, you still can't make up the 20% difference because you also do less damage to me, as you certainly do not do 20% more damage for having PvE gear.

 

What people don't realize the expertise advantage is squared. If a full UW gear guy fought a full Conqueror guy in open world (no bolster), let's say for some inexplicable reason both characters have identical DPS and HP. After you throw in expertise, it'd look like:

 

Conqueror - Base 1000, does 1600 damage after Expertise on UW guy

UW - Base 1000, does (1000/1.6) = 625 damage due to Expertise reduction to damage on Conqueror guy.

 

The Conqueror guy does (1.6)^2 or 2.56X the damage on the UW character after you factor the fact that he's also taking significantly less damage.

 

Now of course the UW actually has better stats, but he's not going to do 60% more damage or have 60% more HP. He'll probably take like 3% less damage (from higher armor, but that'd have no effect on internal/elementl damage and reduced effect on armor piercing attacks, which are common), have maybe 20% more HP, and do at most 20% more damage, which is nowhere close to the blanket 60% bonus expertise. That's why even UW armor gets bolstered because you don't want a guy in max PvE gear getting totally slaughtered without even a chance.

 

Fail math . . .

 

Way to compare the two outside of Warzones (where the UW has 0 expertise), instead of comparing them inside where the UW gets an overly generous expertise buff.

[Tragamite]

I'm still going to use the majority of my raid pieces in warzones. The new change only lowered my expertise bolster by 100, so I'm comfortable with just over 1600 expertise given everything i'm getting from PvE gear.

 

Limiting the bolster by select pieces of gear is not a proficient solution to the problem. The real problem is that the bolster is set too high to begin with. Realistically a change that would limit the total expertise bolster to not exceed 40% of the player with the highest expertise would be more sufficient for solving the problem than the previous changes.

 

For instance, if Bob has 2000, Joe has 0, and Mary has 600 expertise both Joe and Mary would have their expertise bolstered up to 800.

 

A change like this would create an incentive to get and a purpose to equip PvP gear.

 

Granted I do not believe the 55 bracket should be bolstered to begin with, but if it must a change like this would be best IMO.

 

Your argument has slight flaws in suggesting 40% value to PvE gear.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=627061

 

You have to account for stats vs expertise. Does PvP gear provide only 40% of the stats of PvE? The best test of the system would be to match same ACs against each other one in PvP the other in PvE gear. How do base stats measure in 66 to 66 gear? How much expertise is offered from the PvP gear compared to the difference between the sets. Then measure the 69 to the 72 gear and the expertise offered to counter the base stats. In the end, competitively PvP gear should be better by 10-20% in a PvP environment after bolster has been applied. This would make PvP gear desirable but not critical so the casual player can compete.

[cripito]

People who think a difference of 600 expertise (about 20% damage) doesn't matter simply can't do math. I have about 30K in DPS gear in a mix of Conqueror + Partisan gear with endurance stim. I have never seen anyone with 36K HP that isn't in pure tank gear (easily verified by their damage numbers at the end of a WZ). By the way, even if you had 36K HP, you still can't make up the 20% difference because you also do less damage to me, as you certainly do not do 20% more damage for having PvE gear.

 

What people don't realize the expertise advantage is squared. If a full UW gear guy fought a full Conqueror guy in open world (no bolster), let's say for some inexplicable reason both characters have identical DPS and HP. After you throw in expertise, it'd look like:

 

Conqueror - Base 1000, does 1600 damage after Expertise on UW guy

UW - Base 1000, does (1000/1.6) = 625 damage due to Expertise reduction to damage on Conqueror guy.

 

The Conqueror guy does (1.6)^2 or 2.56X the damage on the UW character after you factor the fact that he's also taking significantly less damage.

 

Now of course the UW actually has better stats, but he's not going to do 60% more damage or have 60% more HP. He'll probably take like 3% less damage (from higher armor, but that'd have no effect on internal/elementl damage and reduced effect on armor piercing attacks, which are common), have maybe 20% more HP, and do at most 20% more damage, which is nowhere close to the blanket 60% bonus expertise. That's why even UW armor gets bolstered because you don't want a guy in max PvE gear getting totally slaughtered without even a chance.

 

UW is getting btw 1800-1900 XP which put him in 57-58% dmg boost and around 34-35% dmg reduction while in conqueror u get 2018 which put u at 60% dmg boost and 37.50 dmg reduction... soo you see exactly what's the issue.. we are talking about the issue of some one in greens entering in a wz an getting a bolster...

 

Any end PVE gear shouldn't get any bolster..... i

[AngusFTW]

full underworld does not bolster to 1800-1900 expertise. pics or ****

[MidichIorian]

I still see no reason to get PvP gear. Even with my current set of WH/EWH, I am bolstered to 27k HP, 2k +MAIN and 1800 EXP. Is there a BiS DPS PvP set that can match that? Possibly, but is it worth spending Ranked Comms on? At this point I say hellz, to-the, no.

On partisan I have +2,8K main stat, close to 30K HP and max expertise (sage). And that's a fairly min/maxed set.

 

So yeah, the problem here is that you people have no idea what kind of stats a Partisan set has.

[L-RANDLE]

On partisan I have +2,8K main stat, close to 30K HP and max expertise (sage). And that's a fairly min/maxed set.

 

So yeah, the problem here is that you people have no idea what kind of stats a Partisan set has.

 

Cmon Midi, you think I am some wet behind the ears rook? Sure, I know the stats, but you can't compare my stats to yours... What class are you (I know you have a Sage), but? What is your spec? Datacrons? etc. The only reason I am at 1800EXP is because I still wear my WH relics and am using a BiS Purple 66 PvE enhancement in my LS since they said to drop all EXP in weapons.

 

All that matters in this puzzle. You need to compare apples to apples and even IF I see the BiS PvP pieces as an upgrade, "how much of an upgrade to even worry about buying" it does matter.... I might as well keep my comms capped...

[Astarica]

full underworld does not bolster to 1800-1900 expertise. pics or ****

 

Consider a dev said full UW set gets bolstered to 1322 and this is supposed to have lowered in patch, I really don't what this mass hysteria is about. I'm not saying the dev is always right, but I'd need to see pics first before I take the word of a random poster over a dev.

 

I'm not ruling out there are other weird cases that don't work as intended but as far as UW goes, it seems pretty conclusive that it can't compare to Conqueror after patch unless the quoted numbers by dev just turn out to be totally wrong.

[Exeeter]

UW is getting btw 1800-1900 XP which put him in 57-58% dmg boost and around 34-35% dmg reduction while in conqueror u get 2018 which put u at 60% dmg boost and 37.50 dmg reduction... soo you see exactly what's the issue.. we are talking about the issue of some one in greens entering in a wz an getting a bolster...

 

Any end PVE gear shouldn't get any bolster..... i

 

No..

 

This will only bring back the issue that was present pre 2.0, without an expertise bolster at 55, you are going to create a very nasty discrepancy between fresh 55s and seasoned (geared) 55s.

 

The entire purpose of this is to even the playing field so more players can contribute, lets face it, recruit gear at 50 was simply awful, just. Plain. Awful. And served only to alienate potential pvp players from even getting their foot in the door, and even if they sucked it up, 9 times out of 10, they were a liability.

 

Your essentially asking for a rich get richer system and anyone coming in fresh is stranded.

 

But we can have it your way, and I would not be surprised in a few months your back here complaining about 20 minute que times.

 

The intention of bolster is appropriate, its just unfortunate that its execution is severely flawed, but the lot of you must know that at the end of the day bioware is not going to allow 55 pve gear to ever universally trumpt equal ilvl pvp gear, its just a matter of getting this right.

 

Im no programmer but I thought what if they remove expertise from gear and have the bolster system do nothing with stats. Instead have the system confirm which pieces of gear a playet is wearing is pvp gear and allocate an appropriate amount of expertise, do this for each gear slot.

[Yeochins]

Consider a dev said full UW set gets bolstered to 1322 and this is supposed to have lowered in patch, I really don't what this mass hysteria is about. I'm not saying the dev is always right, but I'd need to see pics first before I take the word of a random poster over a dev.

 

I'm not ruling out there are other weird cases that don't work as intended but as far as UW goes, it seems pretty conclusive that it can't compare to Conqueror after patch unless the quoted numbers by dev just turn out to be totally wrong.

 

Actually my thinking is the opposite.

 

I need to see picture proof the developers are correct about their claims. They're running a track record of 100 things claimed, 0 things delivered (not factually accurate, but if you were to actually count claims to delivery you would see its pretty close to zero than it is 100).

[Yeochins]

On partisan I have +2,8K main stat, close to 30K HP and max expertise (sage). And that's a fairly min/maxed set.

 

So yeah, the problem here is that you people have no idea what kind of stats a Partisan set has.

 

Have you seen full underworld geared people?

 

The damage difference between the Conqueror and Underworld sets is close to 20% if not more. Combine that with broken bolster and you've got superior PvE gear.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Yeochins