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Why aren't emotes viewable in in-game cutscenes?


Machine-Elf

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I feel like the tomfoolery that would ensue if players were allowed to set their moods, or spontaneously break out into dance in the middle of an in-game cutscene, would not only infuse these with some much needed dynamism, but also make jaded veteran players a little more reticent to spacebar through the whole thing.

 

Also, buffs should be visible as well, whenever applicable.

Edited by Machine-Elf
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The cutscenes are pre-scripted. You can't do anything like /dance in a cutscene because you don't actually have control of your character at that moment. The cutscene(s) are all scripted to play out a specific way, even when choices are made that changes the cutscene it's just moving between script 1, script 2, script 3, etc.

 

You can't use emotes in TOR's cutscenes for the same reason you can't make Nathan Drake jump in an Uncharted cutscene. Even games like Mass Effect that have Paragon/Renegade choices aren't really giving you any sort of freedom, just a different direction/script for the cutscene to run in.

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You can do a /clap before a conversation, and continue to hear the clapping during the conversation. It is amusing until after the first conversation choice, and continues to get more annoying the longer the conversation lasts.
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The cutscenes are pre-scripted. You can't do anything like /dance in a cutscene because you don't actually have control of your character at that moment. The cutscene(s) are all scripted to play out a specific way, even when choices are made that changes the cutscene it's just moving between script 1, script 2, script 3, etc.

 

You can't use emotes in TOR's cutscenes for the same reason you can't make Nathan Drake jump in an Uncharted cutscene. Even games like Mass Effect that have Paragon/Renegade choices aren't really giving you any sort of freedom, just a different direction/script for the cutscene to run in.

But the cutscenes are rendered with the game's engine, so it's perfectly feasible for them to allow emotes being triggered in them. Attesting to this is the fact that sometimes I even see other players running around in the background while my character is talking.

Edited by Machine-Elf
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You can do a /clap before a conversation, and continue to hear the clapping during the conversation. It is amusing until after the first conversation choice, and continues to get more annoying the longer the conversation lasts.

 

This made me laugh really hard for some reason.

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But the cutscenes are rendered with the game's engine, so it's perfectly feasible for them to allow emotes being triggered in them. Attesting to this is the fact that sometimes I even see other players running around in the background while my character is talking.

 

Your character is locked into scripted movements. How would /dance work exactly when you choose the option [Kill Him] and your character has to perform an action?

 

Even if they could do it, it's not worth the time, effort, resources, money, etc, it would take to go back and alter all those cutscenes just so people could fool around in them.

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You can do a /clap before a conversation, and continue to hear the clapping during the conversation. It is amusing until after the first conversation choice, and continues to get more annoying the longer the conversation lasts.

 

Yeah, this is because your character isn't actually in the cutscene, they're just standing there while a video is generated. Your character can also attacked while in a cutscene and you'll get no indication of it aside from the sounds, hearing your companion, etc, since the cutscenes basically generate(s) another version of your character. This is why the character models in the cutscenes are more detailed, expressive, etc, than any of the character model you see during real time gameplay.

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Yeah, this is because your character isn't actually in the cutscene, they're just standing there while a video is generated. Your character can also attacked while in a cutscene and you'll get no indication of it aside from the sounds, hearing your companion, etc, since the cutscenes basically generate(s) another version of your character. This is why the character models in the cutscenes are more detailed, expressive, etc, than any of the character model you see during real time gameplay.

 

Actually, if you turn on a certain option in Preferences (High character detail mapping, or something like that) the game should render them and their equipment with the same texture maps as in cutscenes

 

On to the topic, they are cutscenes, no game allows you any control outside of prescripted movements in cutscenes, as that could completely ruin the story told in them

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Your character is locked into scripted movements. How would /dance work exactly when you choose the option [Kill Him] and your character has to perform an action?

 

Even if they could do it, it's not worth the time, effort, resources, money, etc, it would take to go back and alter all those cutscenes just so people could fool around in them.

Ah, the old time/resources/effort line. I was wondering when someone would come along to drop it.

 

The answer is it would take practically no time, almost zero effort, and even less money. It's as simple as writing that one line of code that would allow us, as you yourself put it, not to be locked into scripted movements.

 

And even it were to be a bit more complicated than that (as these things tend to be), I can guarantee you that in the grimmest of scenarios it still wouldn't take even 3% of the time/resources/effort that's expended on churning out yet another one of those Operations whose content lasts all of ten minutes until everyone and their mother has burned through it, becomes bored with it, and starts ************ for the next thing.

 

So yeah, it might just be worth it.

 

As for the /dance emote conflict, it would naturally stop automatically once a player action was taken.

Edited by Machine-Elf
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Ah, the old time/resources/effort line. I was wondering when someone would come along to drop it.

 

The answer is it would take practically no time, almost zero effort, and even less money. It's as simple as writing that one line of code that would allow us, as you yourself put it, not to be locked into scripted movements.

 

And even it were to be a bit more complicated than that (as these things tend to be), I can guarantee you that in the grimmest of scenarios it still wouldn't take even 3% of the time/resources/effort that's expended on churning out yet another one of those Operations whose content lasts all of ten minutes until everyone and their mother has burned through it, becomes bored with it, and starts ************ for the next thing.

 

So yeah, it might just be worth it.

 

That's just a bunch of BS. You actually don't know what it takes or how it works. If you did you wouldn't have started this thread.

 

Almost every single one of your topics are like this, ie some thing that you think is small that you think will take no time to do, but in reality would be a serious under taking. You're constantly asking for all these Quality of Life improvements that are way more elaborate than the type of features BW adds to the game, ie you wanting a Cataclysm like overhaul to the existing planets, additional dialogue for things like PVP/Trading, being able to use emotes in cutscenes, etc, etc.

 

It's always the same **** with you. You don't suggest things based on the extent of what they're shown they're capable of, willing to do, or within the realm or reason for a video game. For instance "they should add a hood-toggle" <-THAT is a reasonable demand or expectation from the game. Now obviously they can do more elaborate things than that, but often times none of the things you suggest, the majority of which you post in the General Discussion area and not the Suggestion Box simply because you think/feel that your thread will get more attention here than it will there.

 

You tend to only want the things you personally want to see, that the large majority of the player base probably cares nothing about, but whatever BW should just cave to all your insane demands right because who cares what they have to go through to get it done as long as you get what you want.

 

As for the /dance emote conflict, it would naturally stop automatically once a player action was taken.

 

Yeah because spacebaring through conversations is a really good indicator that everything lines up properly and executes correctly when you interrupt animations right? There's no way it could cause in issues or conflicts could it?

 

How where an when could you decide where the player can use emotes and where they can't? Do you know how many flags and scripts you'd have to set up for that work? Also they'd have to go and edit EVERY cutscene to do this. There is no overall universal cutscene script. They'd be altering the coding, flags, scripts, for every cutscene, not adding one line of code to a single area of the game somewhere.

 

You don't even bother and stop to think why no game gives you the ability to do what you're asking for. Why is that do you think?

 

This is yet just another example of you having no clue what your'e talking about.

Edited by Darth-Obvious
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How where an when could you decide where the player can use emotes and where they can't? Do you know how many flags and scripts you'd have to set up for that work? Also they'd have to go and edit EVERY cutscene to do this. There is no overall universal cutscene script. They'd be altering the coding, flags, scripts, for every cutscene, not adding one line of code to a single area of the game somewhere.

No, they wouldn't. You're right, I don't know a shred about programming. But I can guarantee you, just by using common sense and reason alone, that doing such a thing would absolutely not require them to go back and edit EVERY cutscene, as you claim.

 

And now that that's out of the way, I think's it's time for a little confession: out of all the ideas I've elaborated/proposed/discussed in the threads you hold so much hatred for, this is one of the very few which didn't just spring from my head. In fact, what happened was that I once read a patch note that Bioware—yes, Bioware!—themselves posted, which read something to the effect of:

 

- Moods can now be used in cutscenes, as originally intended

 

I was incredibly excited to read this note and, as you can imagine, equally dismayed upon finding out that it did not bear any real reflection in the game. I've since tried to find that patch note, to no avail. It's either still buried in the detritus of other notes, or BioWare has since removed it.

 

But in any case, there you have it.

Edited by Machine-Elf
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No, they wouldn't.

 

Yes, they would, at least for every cutscene you want it in.

 

You're right, I don't know a shred about programming.

 

And yet….

 

But I can guarantee you,

 

…you can somehow guarantee me?

 

just by using common sense and reason alone, that doing such a thing would absolutely not require them to go back and edit EVERY cutscene, as you claim.

 

The cutscenes in the game are set up like…

 

Taris-QuestGiver6-Hub4

Taris-QuestGiver3-Hub4

Flashpoint-Foundry-Cinematic2

 

…and so on. Note that’s not the exact way they’re labeled, but it’s similar. Now if you wanted to allow the player to emote, dance, etc, in one of those scenes you’d HAVE to edit file, there’s no way around it. Even if they found a universal line of code that worked for all cutscenes they’d need to copy and paste that line into each of the files.

 

You don’t know how games work, are developed, what goes into them or anything of that nature yet guarantee me about something that you know nothing about or that I clearly know more about than you do.

 

In fact, what happened was that I once read a patch note that Bioware—yes, Bioware!—themselves posted, which read something to the effect of:

 

- Moods can now be used in cutscenes, as originally intended

 

Meaning it was something that already existed in the game’s coding, and was most likely never finished. In other words work started on it, but was never completed. There’s tons of stuff like that in the game’s code. People have been ripping apart KOTOR2 for years finding things like that, ie unused code.

 

I was incredibly excited to read this note and, as you can imagine, equally dismayed upon finding out that it did not bear any real reflection in the game.

 

What a shock that you can’t alter pre-scripted cutscenes on the fly. If only every video game ever had set that standard you might have known better.

 

But in any case, there you have it.

 

Have what? You haven’t proven a case for anything, nor have you provided any examples of how it could be achieved. Hell you can’t even provide an example of a game that allows you to do what you’re asking. There’s how many video games in existence and yet you can’t name a single one that does what you’re asking? You don’t find that odd?

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And yet….

 

…you can somehow guarantee me?

The reason why I’m so confident in stating that the inclusion of emotes into cutscenes would not require the laborious programming you seem to believe it would, is because the cutscenes themselves are rendered using the game’s engine. If we’re able to see our choice of items and gear perfectly reflected in these cinematics—and at times even catch glimpses of other players going on about their business in the background–then it’s fairly logical to assume that the cause for emotes and moods not being likewise reflected in said scenes does not stem from the ostensible difficulty it would involve, but rather simply boils down to a differing creative choice.

 

Meaning it was something that already existed in the game’s coding, and was most likely never finished. In other words work started on it, but was never completed. There’s tons of stuff like that in the game’s code. People have been ripping apart KOTOR2 for years finding things like that, ie unused code.

That’s not the point. The point is that what you assumed to be a completely implausible mental deviation on my part, something so ludicrous its likelihood of being implemented was next to freezing point, was in fact a feature which BioWare was at some point considering to add into the game.

 

What a shock that you can’t alter pre-scripted cutscenes on the fly. If only every video game ever had set that standard you might have known better.

If only every video game ever had massively multiplayer environments that included cutscenes rendered in real time.

 

There’s how many video games in existence and yet you can’t name a single one that does what you’re asking? You don’t find that odd?

Again, that might be down to the fact that no other video game in existence has attempted to include cutscenes rendered in real-time. Even ignoring the fact that technology has developed to such a degree that the practical application of an idea into a game is restricted only by one’s own imagination, the truth of the matter is that the notion of implementing what I proposed is not as far-fetched as you suggest, since BioWare has already set a precedent for it by including — and I hate to repeat myself like this — fully-rendered cutscenes in SWTOR.

Edited by Machine-Elf
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The reason why I’m so confident in stating that the inclusion of emotes into cutscenes would not require the laborious programming you seem to believe it would, is because the cutscenes themselves are rendered using the game’s engine.

 

Yeah and there's 100 other video games that are the same way, yet you've been unable to explain why you can't make your character move, dance, jump, etc, within games like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, etc. Tons of games feature in-engine cutscenes and you can't come up with a single example of one.

 

Cutscenes are PRE-SCRIPTED. What part of that do you not understand? You can not give the player the ability to freely do anything in cutscene, everything has to be coded/scripted.

 

If we’re able to see our choice of items and gear perfectly reflected in these cinematics

 

The cinematics re-renders your character. It's a different character model in the cutscenes that's moving around, making gestures, etc. The character model you're using during gameplay is just standing there during cutscenes while the cinematic plays out. I don't know how you've yet to understand this or figure that out.

 

—and at times even catch glimpses of other players going on about their business in the background–

 

It's a glitch. It happens when the cutscene(s) are being rendered. It's not intentional.

 

then it’s fairly logical to assume that the cause for emotes and moods not being likewise reflected in said scenes does not stem from the ostensible difficulty it would involve, but rather simply boils down to a differing creative choice.

 

The characters/players you see running around in the background are using the in-game art assets, the cutscenes use different art assets. For example your character's skin texture never looks as good in game as it does in the cutscenes.

 

That’s not the point. The point is that what you assumed to be a completely implausible mental deviation on my part, something so ludicrous its likelihood of being implemented was next to freezing point, was in fact a feature which BioWare was at some point considering to add into the game.

 

No, because that specific feature was not disproving anything I said. Nothing about that feature shows that your character model can emote on the fly in cutscenes. They finally got around to finishing a feature that they originally intended that was nowhere near what you thought it was. That was my point.

 

If only every video game ever had massively multiplayer environments that included cutscenes rendered in real time.

 

There are other video games with large environments with cutscenes rendered in realtime.

 

The majority of the GTA games all render in real time, as does Saints Row, Sleeping Dogs, the new Tomb Raider, etc.

 

The multiplayer aspect or the fact that it's an MMO doesn't change the way the programmers script the cutscenes.

 

Again, that might be down to the fact that no other video game in existence has attempted to include cutscenes rendered in real-time.

 

*** are you talking about? Seriously?

 

Any game that allows you to change your character's appearance and have it reflect in the cutscenes is being rendered in real time.

 

How do you not know that?

 

Even ignoring the fact that technology has developed to such a degree that the practical application of an idea into a game is restricted only by one’s own imagination,

 

Nope.

 

"I want a game like Saints Row that has the destructibility of Red Faction Armageddon."

 

^That sort of thing isn't possible on current generation hardware. Nor is playing something like GTA split screen possible on current gen hardware because the consoles aren't powerful enough to create two separate streams of the game, just like you couldn't create a massive city environment with NPCs, vehicles, etc, that was fully destructible the way Red Faction is due the processors not being able to handle all that information at once changing on the fly to that degree.

 

So no, it's not simply restricted by imagination. Once again you're wrong. There are some things that current tech just can't do in games.

 

the truth of the matter is that the notion of implementing what I proposed is not as far-fetched as you suggest,

 

Yes, it is.

 

since BioWare has already set a precedent for it

 

No they haven't.

 

by including — and I hate to repeat myself like this — fully-rendered cutscenes in SWTOR.

 

How do you think Bioware's other games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age render their cutscenes?

 

You act like there's no way that anybody could possibly no better than you. You don't work in the industry, no nothing about coding, or how games are developed, yet when someone who clearly knows more than you about the subject tells you otherwise, you don't listen.

 

A dev could post in the thread and tell you that you're 100% wrong, yet you're acting like there's no way you could be. I don't get that. I don't understand you assuming things as if they were fact with nothing to back up what you're saying, and yet I and others i this thread can tell you that it's not possible, or that you're wrong and you still won't listen to reason.

 

The reason someone would post this...

 

 

...in response to you is because they can't believe how dumb you're being. Everybody else knows why what you're asking for isn't possible, and yet you still don't listen.

Edited by Darth-Obvious
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Also even if it was possible, I would hate having to watch a group cutscene with other people who are making stupid faces and doing stupid emotes, instead of watching how it's supposed to be. It would totally ruin my immersion if some random guy would start making goofy faces and start doing /clubdance while talking to Malgus or whatever.

Cutscenes are supposed to be cutscenes. You can do your weird emotes after a cutscene, why would you wanna ruin cutscenes?

Edited by Aelther
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The reason why I’m so confident in stating that the inclusion of emotes into cutscenes would not require the laborious programming you seem to believe it would.

 

That is why you fail.

 

You realize that the whole point of cut scenes is to show complex facial emotions and make you feel like you're interacting with real people? In order to do that tons of time was spent configuring every minor facial queue to show the correct emotion. Moods are 1 single face frozen in stone, it doesn't include any blinking, speaking, moving, or any other natural things that are required to make a cut scenes look good. They probably could player selected emotes to over-write the arduously coded well done emotes in the senses now, but it would look like your characters was wearing a plastic mask with one face frozen in stone and their lips wouldn't move any more. Is that really what you want?

 

Getting past that let's assume they could just throw a switch and make set moods magical work they way you're imagining they could, it would still look really weird. The fact that the emotions don't match the inflection and tone of the conversation. For this reason I don't think that the devs will ever spend the ridiculous amount of coding it would take to overcome the issues I listed in the previous paragraph when the end result wouldn't be that great anyway and I don't think many people beyond you are really wanting this feature.

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Yeah and there's 100 other video games that are the same way, yet you've been unable to explain why you can't make your character move, dance, jump, etc, within games like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, etc. Tons of games feature in-engine cutscenes and you can't come up with a single example of one.

 

Cutscenes are PRE-SCRIPTED. What part of that do you not understand? You can not give the player the ability to freely do anything in cutscene, everything has to be coded/scripted.

Because none of those games include emotes, as they are not online. But notice how Dragon Age, or Mass Effect, or even the original KOTOR, for example, reflect—not just a character's gear—but also the specific buffs which they might have on them. For instance, if you an energy shield on in this last game, it would be visible in the in-game cinematic.

 

The cinematics re-renders your character. It's a different character model in the cutscenes that's moving around, making gestures, etc. The character model you're using during gameplay is just standing there during cutscenes while the cinematic plays out. I don't know how you've yet to understand this or figure that out.

I asked around about this to people in these forums who know a lot more about coding than I, and most of them confirmed what you said here. Seems you were right, and I was wrong, so I apologize for having insisted on an argument that was erroneous.

 

It's a glitch. It happens when the cutscene(s) are being rendered. It's not intentional. The characters/players you see running around in the background are using the in-game art assets, the cutscenes use different art assets. For example your character's skin texture never looks as good in game as it does in the cutscenes.

If it's a glitch, it's one that I like to see. It makes me feel as if my character is part of a shared universe, less isolated.

 

*** are you talking about? Seriously? Any game that allows you to change your character's appearance and have it reflect in the cutscenes is being rendered in real time. .

This was a typo. I'd meant to write: "there are other video games with large [massively-multiplayer] environments with cutscenes rendered in realtime.

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Because none of those games include emotes, as they are not online.

 

This goes beyond emotes.

 

For example I'm playing Tomb Raider and there's a cutscene playing where Lara is talking to somebody. The cutscene is rendered in real time using the in game assets. I push jump, but Lara doesn't jump. I push shoot, but Lara doesn't shoot. Why is that?

 

Explain to me why you can not produce a single example of a video game that allows you to do that?

 

It has absolutely nothing to do with the genre of a game. The fact that a game is a MMO, or a shooter, or a platformer, or whatever doesn't change how cutscenes are programmed/scripted.

 

The way TOR is programmed, coded, scripted, etc, etc, is not unique to TOR. You seem to think/believe otherwise.

 

But notice how Dragon Age, or Mass Effect, or even the original KOTOR, for example, reflect—not just a character's gear—but also the specific buffs which they might have on them. For instance, if you an energy shield on in this last game, it would be visible in the in-game cinematic.

 

And that's because it doesn't play a video file, nor does it re-render your character model, it just frames your the character models.

 

I asked around about this to people in these forums who know a lot more about coding than I, and most of them confirmed what you said here. Seems you were right, and I was wrong, so I apologize for having insisted on an argument that was erroneous.

 

Yeah, how weird that I would know that right?

 

When I go to events like E3 and GDC all I do is talk to developers, journalists, or whoever else I can really and generally I ask lots, and lots of questions. Yeah it's nice to be able to play a bunch of stuff for free that isn't coming out for months, but it'll all come out eventually. Getting to talk to developers is much more rare and something I can learn way more from rather than just playing their games.

 

If it's a glitch, it's one that I like to see. It makes me feel as if my character is part of a shared universe, less isolated.

 

And you don't think people would troll other players like crazy if they knew they could be seen in a player's cutscene?

 

This was a typo. I'd meant to write: "there are other video games with large [massively-multiplayer] environments with cutscenes rendered in realtime.

 

That doesn't matter though. It doesn't matter if you're playing a game that allows you to play with 100 other people at the same time or 1 other person at the same time. It's still a video game. There are games like Dead Rising 2 that have to generate alot of content on screen in large areas, and will generate you and a co-op player in real time in whatever ridiculous outfits you're both wearing in the cutscenes.

 

TOR is not as unique as you're making it out to be. It's not made differently than other games. It is a slightly more unique game within it's own genre, but that means nothing when it comes to programming, coding, scripting, modeling, etc. It was built the sameway other games are.

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