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The Balance Issue


Ritsugamesh

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My only hope for my own SWTOR experience right now lies in the Balance spec. If it changes, I'll probably continue to play. Right now, there is no class that lives up to how fun the Balance Spec was... and I'm disinclined to reroll anything. I know a lot of focus in this game lies in rolling alts, but that has never been for me. I usually roll a character and stick with it. I have unique items on my Shadow, and I'll be damned if I have to give up on her. I'd rather quit the game.

 

Waiting for 2.2. Playing WoW until then. Might continue to play WoW. This game looks great and has a wonderful IP, but Bioware really mismanages it.

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2.2 patch notes... Vigilance Guardians are faster? Inf are once again becoming more telegraphed (watching enemy proc bar is pretty serious business).

 

Some of the s*** these devs do make me feel like they believe we're stupid. Like we don't see when they band-aid something they mess up on, or talk some bull about changes that they had no need to do. Drain Skirmisher ftw! Instant Force lift and fun gameplay too OP, every game needs to devolve to spamming Force Sweep and never having any points flip due to tank/healer stalemates.

 

I'd be sarcastic and say 'Thankfully BW caught the real culprit of game imbalance... balance', but I am worried they'll read this post and pat themselves on the back for a job so poorly done.

 

Sort it out. Give us back our Balance. Give a f*** about the pvp community.

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There's too few of us posting. No amount of sensible arguments will change anything. There's no profit in it for Bioware.

 

So I'm not going to make any arguments at all this time. I'm just going to say that I really, really miss the old Balance spec. That is all. :(

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There's too few of us posting. No amount of sensible arguments will change anything. There's no profit in it for Bioware.

 

So I'm not going to make any arguments at all this time. I'm just going to say that I really, really miss the old Balance spec. That is all. :(

 

Me too. ):

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Appreciate the bump for the thread people, been keeping an eye on it to make sure it tries to stay on first page.

 

I'm honestly starting to just lose interest in SWTOR as a game these days, the recent PvP revelations that they rocked us with alongside the arrogance and short-sightedness that the devs display near day in day out just makes me care about being a part of this games future less and less.

 

I wish they'd actually do some real work and stop making excuses, I wish I could get Balance back and I wish we as a PvP community could get some meaningful content; unfortunately we're all aware that none of these things will be achieved any time soon.

 

It's such a shame to play a game where you feel like the creators are your enemy, not your ally but that is exactly how this has felt from day one. GW2 isn't my fav game but Bioware could learn from Arenanet's method of interation (and furthermore, both could learn a million things from CCP over at Eve Online!)

 

Still (faintly) hopeful,

 

Cheers

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Still (faintly) hopeful,

 

Same here but only in the sense that the spec is broken. Underperforming with little to no raid utility. Too much emphasis on aoe damage and lack of single target pressure in pvp. The spec was fine and bioware broke it. They owe it to us to fix the mess they've created.

 

But will they? That's where my hopes are kind of starting to flicker... they haven't even said a word about the new Balance yet. I've been skulking these forums more than I've been playing the actual game since 2.0 launched :p ... and I've seen sooooo many complaints about both Balance and Madness. 2.0 created those complaints. Before 2.0, there were no complaints. Bioware screwed up.

 

I'd pay cartel coins to see it fixed!

Edited by Majspuffen
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People please stop being so negative you just make other People think the game would be better off without you.

keep ideas Rolling, see it as a Brainstorm for the devs.

it might take some time but I don't see them keep Balance the way it is, not forever.

 

so here's another Idea of mine.

change force Strike and mind wrap.

and make pinning resolve and containment each a one point ability (shadow only, sage as it is) since these talents as they currently are aren't worth two points (in my opinion they aren't worth one but that's purely PVE)

 

make "Force strike" a Two point Ability with less internal CD that can trigger from all attacks or all Single Target attacks or all non Dot attacks that's up for debate (I'd say it should trigger from everything including dots that would buff full balance over hybrid even more).

also the buff is stackable and provides (very small) Damage increase per Stack (all get eaten up as you apply mind crush just as it is.)

mind wrap takes out the internal CD of Force strike completely and maybe even speeds up the dot-effect so you have to mind crush more often.

 

it would add to your damage in an multi target environment and replace more force eating DS with the Force positive (because its for free) Mind crush, it would take the randomness out of mind crush being for free and instant or cast and costly because it's almost guaranteed to be up at all times.

so you just have to reapply when the debuff runs out for maximum effect, as you do now in a "not worst case" scenario.

Currently if you are unlucky with procs it sucks but there's nothing you can do about that, with the changes you'd have to be incredibly unlucky (or forget your FB) to not have instant mind crush

(that's a QoL improvement without nerfing the game play like removing InfTac was).

 

what I miss the most about infiltration tactics it could proc from any direct damage so I had it up right after my first FIB most of the time and all my attacks could proc it, force strike only procs from "melee attacks on FB debuffed targets" that feels so limited.

 

after these changes we could stay at 10m and use all the trees synergies only missing the damage from the melee attacks themselves, we could use TKT to get the procs just like Sages do (just from 20m less without force potency and without their pushback resist) or go into close melee range and do damage from there, more possible play styles and no balancing concerns that can't be dealt with trough careful number crunching.

if it changes enough about Force Management you'd have to decide between DS and SS/Projekt to make the best use of your Force but be better able to influence this through your rotation then before.

so less randomness for yourself and more for the enemy compared to pre2.0 that would accomplish the goal of reducing the Skill celling but won't bring back exactly the old playstyle.

 

simply going back to pre 2.0 might be the simplest, most efficient and most satisfying thing they could do...

 

I'd pay cartel coins to see it fixed!

I'd add mine to that even if its only a just for fun Offspec to me

Edited by DarthSpekulatius
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People please stop being so negative you just make other People think the game would be better off without you.

keep ideas Rolling, see it as a Brainstorm for the devs.

it might take some time but I don't see them keep Balance the way it is, not forever.

 

I've been plenty negative and I'd actually like to apologize for that. I'm upset and I sort of take my anger out on these forums.

 

I finally decided to level up my Balance Shadow this week to give it an actual genuine try... but, it was no use. Fell asleep in PvE and found myself unable to threaten healers in PvP. I also noticed that it's harder to keep DoTs up on targets these days... especially when it comes to agents. Snipers Evasion now removes our dots and Operative healers have a talent that reduces the cooldown of evasion when they take damage. Concealment operatives have a 50/50 chance to remove our dots when they exfiltrate. The spec is broken for pvp now.

 

So I tried tanking a bit. It wasn't for me. Nor was Infiltration. Infiltration is great right now, insane burst... but it is all melee damage and it's all very dependant on RNG. Sometimes I would butcher healers and other times I would be starved for procs and unable to do anything from range. I don't like those specs.

 

I've been away from the game for a month, playing other games; WoW and GW2 mostly. I returned to give my Shadow a last try and well... I've now uninstalled the game and I am not reinstalling it until Balance Shadows recieves some change.

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This might be my final post in this thread since my sub is bound to run out at any time now.

 

Let's take a look at the Balance Tree for both Shadows and Sages before 2.0.

 

The benefit of a Shadow was their Force Regen and high Single Target pressure.

The benefit of a Sage was their range. They were proper "Drain Skirmishers".

 

In 2.0 Shadows and Sages are now very similar. Shadows use Double Strike and Sages use Telekinetic Throw. Shadows no longer have their unique way of regenning Force which hampers our Single Target pressure. Nor do we have Shadow Strike which was our strongest move outside of the 30% health mark. We're now, quite literally, melee sages... which is very bad.

 

What I want to see, personally, is a reduction in AoE damage and an increase of Single Target damage. I want to see some complexity restored... but I don't want to stare at cooldowns or keep a counter in my head, I want the fluid and reactive gameplay we had in 1.7.

 

I'm not returning to the game until Balance has gotten some love.

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I also noticed that it's harder to keep DoTs up on targets these days...

for all the Healers out there

go into the Interface Editor

set Debuff scale to Max

against Balance/madness

Sage / Sorc: use Restoration / Purge (dd- or Heal-spec doesn't matter)!

Scoundrel / Operative: use Triage / toxin scan (only talented -> Healspecced)!

Merc / Commando: use Field Aid / Cure (only talented -> Healspecced)!

 

profit!

 

just in case it isn't conmen Knowledge already

I think that is what really kills Balance in PVP

and I Believe a Disadvantage that huge can only sustain if there aren't enough people who use it.

 

(as a Bonus it'll make you a much better PVE Healer as well)

Edited by DarthSpekulatius
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Lets see my background.

 

Started off as a Scrapper Dps (PVE/PVP), learned heals, learning DF.

Made a Guardian Tank, learned Vigilance Dps.

Made a Balance Dps Shadow.

 

Pre-2.0 The first characters that I made were considered subpar in their departments. Plenty of times I got rejected from pug groups for ops as a Dps scrapper. It made me into a better player as I had to work/try harder to achieve the same goals, so when harder content came out, I could cope quickly. Of course I got a healing set and loved it, but there was nothing like completing EC HM as a Scrapper Dps.

 

I am going to be frank with the Shadow Community here. This class at the moment has been altered significantly by the devs since pre-2.0. It was considered an awesome tank, best hybrid pvp spec (imo), good burst damage, awesome sustained dps.

 

When I got my shadow up to 50 and played balance, it was sooo easy and soooo good, absolutely the most versatile class I played and dominated with it. The class felt so overpowered compared to my other characters.

 

Then 2.0 came around and every one of my other classes got a nice buff. Shadow though took a bit of a nerf in many aspects (absorb...). The Devs do play the game and get to changes over time, that is what I learned with the changes to scrapper dps now being much better.

 

Stick with it, create another class to learn about how they play just to change it up a bit. Play your shadow a bit. It is not as "broken" as you think, just needs some tweaking to make balance more involving and interesting to play. Right now it seems like they are rolling out all of the big content updates and since Bioware spaces out their patches, when they are done with those I am pretty sure they will move to class balance (*** gunslinger dps numbers).

 

The tree needs another filler skill to place between DS and increase dps. High on the tree there probably needs to be something that procs for an increase in Project damage or incease your FiB charges with each second of Tele Throw.

Edited by CJAShadow
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Said to see some want to give up on waiting for changes to Balance. I havent given up hope. I am still trying to play my Balance Shadow however I dont PVP with her so it's just a matter of making it work with PVE which I think is easier to cope with.

 

I still would love to see some changes coming soon. I still use Shadow Strike... since you know I am a Shadow, but it would nice if they made it worth it for us. Please give us a reduced force cost or something to regen force.

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I really hope they revert this spec back to what it was pre 2.0, it was actually the only spec in the game i found to be fun, and so I have actually quit playing all together until some sort of major change, or a full restore of it's once awesomeness is brought back. With all the people who tried to play the spec (Balance/Madness) and couldn't get decent numbers, well, you simply weren't trying, Balance/Madness is (was) a spec that actually gave me something to do, and I still managed to be #1 on the parsers about 90% of the time, it's my belief that a lot of people are lazy and want results without the effort, this spec simply did not allow for that, and that is why I thoroughly enjoyed playing it, having played all the classes and tried all specs for every class, everything compared to this spec was utterly mind numbing and made me want to punch myself in the face for playing it, that however is just my opinion. Anyways, once 2.0 went live and I realized that Bioware had actually given in to all the crappy players who couldn't make a good thing work, so they came on here and whined about it enough and then this ridiculous change was made, I was still optimistic about being able to deal with the changes, but every time I started playing I would pointlessly use Project/Shock and shadow Strike/Maul by force of habit and realize soon after... *** am I doing, there is no point, there is no more Twin Disciplines (10% Melee buff) from Project, and no more Infiltration Tactics making shadow strike even worth using, unless I wanted to force starve myself. And how the #@&% are you going to take away shadow strike from us, yet give it to the tank spec? when I read this interview with Austin Peckenpaugh,

 

http://www.madsithassassin.com/2013/03/assassin-developer-interview.html

 

I wanted to kick him in the &%$* for his undeniably stupid logic on why we needed these changes.

Anyways, end rant, I'll be checking in periodically in hopes they fix this.

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/.../Anyways, once 2.0 went live and I realized that Bioware had actually given in to all the crappy players who couldn't make a good thing work, so they came on here and whined about it enough and then this ridiculous change was made/.../

 

Actually, no one ever really complained about Balance on these forums. Not that I could see. I browsed through a lot of the old history and I couldn't find a single complaint about Balance. I did find lots of complaints about Infiltration though... and I found lots of praise in terms of Balance. If someone had trouble playing this spec, it must've been someone at Bioware Austin.

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What's funny to me is if I want to put up big numbers in PvP, I spec into Balance. I can top 600k+ damage (mainly from FiB and DoTs) but I can rarely kill people. I can kill people in Infiltration (7k+ Shadow Strikes and 5k-6k FB and projects that hit around the same amount) but my damage overall has gotten lower for some reason. I was never an Infiltration fan, but it definitely works at killing faster. Balance is still a fun spec to play (except when I run out of force in the middle of an all out brawl) but it lacks so much right now to make it viable for PvP or even PvE. I feel like I'm gimping myself and my team when I spec into Balance.

 

I really hope the Devs look into rebuilding this spec to make it more viable all around. I shouldn't be forced into a spec I don't play because they are clueless (which is not something I would say normally but after reading the interview explaining the changes and some of the responses I've read on here, I have to say the Devs are clueless about Shadow Tanks and the changes to Balance Shadows and Sages which I also have.) I just wonder if they want to make Shadows so lackluster that people just start playing other specs which is sad IMO.

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