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Seriously, why should people study...


Jarnaktane

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This entire different generation, they seem to forgot about the excitement of not knowing what comes next. Looking up the game and reading the strategies ruins the game for some people. With the internet and instant guides these days, some people use them before experiecing the gameplay first. Once you start to memorize the mechanics in a video game, then it will start to get easier and tedious.

 

In my opinion, this issues goes along with the fact that games are easier and more casual than in the 80's and early 90's. In most old school games, you are expected to die multiple times before you finish. These days some people get mad as soon if they die once.

 

This. Nothing else really needs to be said.

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...how to play Flashpoints, Operations and Warzones on the internet instead of logging in to the game and learning to play them by actually playing them.

 

I see all of the people who are elite (or think they are) in game and whenever a new player asks why they got booted, or what am I doing wrong, these champions of the game say things like google it, or check out this web page and that will tell you what you need to do. What the...?

 

Last night one of my friends actually got called a whole number of things because he hadn't studied how a warzone works before queueing for PVP! That is just phenomenally bad form!

 

Why should anyone be told to research how to play on the internet?

 

How about some of you champions taking the time to walk them through a flashpoint once instead of jumping up and down on the spot and spamming spacebar so you can get your dailies and then complaining that everyone is so bad. Reading the forums this morning, and people are getting roasted for not knowing how to play when they have only just subscribed to the game.

 

I am not actually coming back to the forums except to read the dev and patch notes from now on, so I guess the point of this post is that maybe one of these elite champions might treat new players a bit better, or at least stop directing people to study before playing.

 

Troll away...

 

Why wouldn't you take some time to study guides and tactics and strategies from people who have played these warzones for months on end before actually rushing into a warzone?

 

I found that the time I spent reading guides made the actual game play in the zones much more entertaining and fulfilling.

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My guild doesn't have this requirement. I've never looked up a strategy and frankly don't need to. We can cover everything on the fly as we go.

 

This is typically my experience, as long as the group knows how to play their classes decently, you can generally just wing it.

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Why should anyone have to understand how to play football before they show up for a game? Isn't that the point of a game, to play and have fun learning while you're at it? Expecting people to know the rules and how to play their position before they show up on Friday (or Sunday) for the game is really stupid.

 

The coach shouldn't be allowed to kick players off the team in pre season either. So what if a player doesn't show up to camp, doesn't know the playbook, isn't in shape and has no idea what they're doing and just wants a big paycheck, they should be allowed to play, they're a player too!

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Eh, topic as said almost feels like a troll if taken as one person refuses to know fight and plans to wipe the entire group just for the experience of not knowing what comes next. But it's valid enough to be looked at.

 

PvP, the solution is best described as lowbies, you'll learn the maps, maybe some tricks, and while people will get mad at you they're a lot less likely to ignore list you since the lowbie bracket is really the main place people would expect first-timers on each side with no cost but the doubling of time if there's losses instead of wins.

 

PvE has repair bills, which get to be quite expensive for higher levels, and especially F2P players, though I have yet to hear that difference yet. If you don't know the fight/area as a tank that isn't always a big loss if you are skilled at keeping aggro and surviving the hard pulls. Heals can get a little more pressing due to being the one who tends to be blamed for any deaths at all, usually people are mellow about it at level content, but the daily grinders tend to get angry about this because it's something that's been around for a while, and it just seems polite to know the fight before you take a big role in keeping people alive.

 

That being said, the biggest insult tends to be the person who has this mindset, who doesn't learn from their mistakes. The guy who goes in, dies to a mechanic that's meant to be avoided, then goes in and does it over and over again. If that's my friend, or someone's friend I'll try to explain what they're doing wrong, even if it's someone random I'll try to explain most of the time. If they still don't listen then more then likely they'll get a vote-kick from someone if not me simply because helping a player who doesn't want to be helped tends to make players want to find out which way the majority of the group feels about the matter.

 

Personally I have a much greater tolerance for someone not knowing the mechanics then a person who knows the 'tricks' that are extremely obscure ( because they often don't work, waste time, or are entirely pointless ) or the person self-assured in knowing a mechanic that's wrong and refusing to listen.

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Booting people shouldn't be allowed in storymode Flashpoints.

 

Yes because it would be unheard of for someone to walk away from there computer neglecting what's going on in game for any number of reasons also but not limited too griefing the other members of the party. Nope you should NEVER be able to remove someone and get someone else who would be more productive for that!

 

Sounds to me like you've been removed from a group or two and still a bit resentful for it.

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If you want to compensate me for the repair bills and time lost in and out of game, heck I'll sit there and wipe with you all day long. I want fps to go smoothly not only for in game reasons but often times I have real life things to do after them. If you tell me before the fp starts that you haven't ran it, wonderful. I'll explain it and I'll be more than willing to go through a few wipes. If you don't say anything however and we wipe a few times because of blown mechanics on your part I will vote kick you.

 

Also with the guides that you find online, many don't discuss the story at all so no need to worry about spoilers there. Also you're talking about fun learning through trial and error. What's fun to you may not be fun to me and, if you are getting kicked, the rest of the group. I'm not saying go to a site and memorize every detail of a fp before you queue for it. All I'm saying is use common sense and take your group members in consideration. Think about the collective group before yourself.

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For those who insist others read guides on games before playing them, how on earth did you people get by when there was no game guides? Or, are you too young to remember those days?

 

For those who say "pay me my 300k repair bill and thats fine! Okay, if the shoe fits, you pay me £20 for the strategy guide at my local store then. No? Thought as much. Before you say "there are free ones online, duh!" I would like to parry that with, how do you know THAT guide will work? Seeing as there is an official strategy guide release by EA/BW, why should I trust a non official one? Or, how about you pay 300k each to the group of people who wiped to create that guide?

 

Also, where is your sense of gaming? If you wanted an easy win, pick up a colouring book from Little Chef. Is your self esteem that low that you need a guaranteed win, wow! Besides, all the guides in the world can't fix bad players. What's the point in playing the game when you know how to play it already? Personally, I love playing games, moving my character in a cave and suddenly s***!!! Swamp Beast!!

 

Lastly, am I lazy for not reading a guide? no, I am not, and I resent the implication. In fact, I enjoy reading a lot and am very proud of my extensive book collection (now in the range of 300 books). When I am not gaming, I am probably reading. So no, the reason I do not read guides is not due to personal laziness and unwillingness to read.

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Randoms are just that. You get what you get.

 

If you don't like or cant stand newbs or others who can't be bothered to learn the fights before entering the FP, then don't do PUGs. Find a group of like minded people to run them with.

 

On the other hand, if you can't deal with self-absorbed jerks, elitists or people in too much of a hurry to be civil, don't run with PUGs. Find a group of like minded people to run them with.

 

If you do randoms/PUGs, you get what you get, quit whining and deal with it or don't run them.

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...how to play Flashpoints, Operations and Warzones on the internet instead of logging in to the game and learning to play them by actually playing them.

 

I see all of the people who are elite (or think they are) in game and whenever a new player asks why they got booted, or what am I doing wrong, these champions of the game say things like google it, or check out this web page and that will tell you what you need to do. What the...?

 

Last night one of my friends actually got called a whole number of things because he hadn't studied how a warzone works before queueing for PVP! That is just phenomenally bad form!

 

Why should anyone be told to research how to play on the internet?

 

How about some of you champions taking the time to walk them through a flashpoint once instead of jumping up and down on the spot and spamming spacebar so you can get your dailies and then complaining that everyone is so bad. Reading the forums this morning, and people are getting roasted for not knowing how to play when they have only just subscribed to the game.

 

I am not actually coming back to the forums except to read the dev and patch notes from now on, so I guess the point of this post is that maybe one of these elite champions might treat new players a bit better, or at least stop directing people to study before playing.

 

Troll away...

This is exactly why I'd like to see a LOT of randomization added to flashpoints. Randomly generated or chosen maps on a daily basis, randomly picked boss mechanics everytime a new instance is started, even random placement and movement of trashmobs. Yes, some days an instance might turn out slightly harder than on other days. But it'd get rid of half the youtube guided elites. The other half might actually learn how to play themselves.

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The only problem with guides is that people seem so one way, it can be obnoxious

 

I was in LI as a DPS powertech in the Makeb mods when the tank went down on the droid and I took over as a tank and we spanked him. The thing is I never really tank that flashpoint but we just avoided stuff and used interrupt. It was pretty straight forward

 

I tried that same flashpoint with some L33T players about a week ago, using my fully geared tank Juggy. Told then I had never tanked it before and they gave me some crazy long condescending lecture about what HAD to be done. Needless to say we wiped, I was kicked from the group on that one wipe.

 

Now that have tanked it in my DPS character I know that it can be done by just awareness, it does now take some crazy tactics or anything

 

I see this stuff alot. People seem to think there is only One way to beat an op or flashpoints, that way is there way.

 

This is hardly the case though, just be aware and watch your debuffs, knock backs and interrupts while maintaining aggro and you should be good to go

 

So it helps to look stuff over before hand but just play your class and understanding your role helps a thousand times more than following some step by step idiot guide

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I think I understand why someone might not want to read a guide as to avoid spoiling the storyline.

However, OPS and FPs do not have any major plot twists that would be impossible to predict (or you are told that information during the briefing scene), so yeah, you might get spoiled by the information you have to defeat some major bad guy in newest ops, but that missions objective is usually known very early (I will admit, the final boss in SaV is not as easily predictable, until he shows himself).

As to "People learn by doing" arguments: I usually try to read up on the Operation and the current boss, but that does not give me a perfect knowledge of what to press, where to stand, etc. That is usually discovered during the run. If I had to compare it to something, I guess it would be either math or programming. You learn the formulas (codes), but you will be terrible with them unless you practice them. However, without any knowledge of the formulas (codes) beforehand, you would just be utterly clueless.

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Just like in real life, I don't like to prepare for things in this game.

 

When I was learning to drive, I had no idea what the rules were or even how the car worked. LIke, it took me several tries to realize that we are supposed to drive on a particular side of the road or highway. And those weird colored lights, what were those about?? My city lost a few million hours of work time due to the traffic jams I caused, but hey, it was sooo exciting not knowing what was coming next, I'm sure everyone enjoyed it!

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I always kick people from operations or flashpoints who are CLUELESS to what they are doing. Maybe they will learn a lesson to prepare for it.

 

If they are prepared to join, the should be prepared to know the tactics. Simple.

 

Also, the rules for WZ are clearly shown on the loading screen.

Edited by DarthWoad
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No, it's not. What's normal is for the player to understand the mechanics of a game through trial and error.

Why would he want to "look up" something? What if it's his first time playing and he doesn't want to ruin what little shred of story there is to be found in these Flashpoints? And who are you to dictate his play-style.

 

Now i's my turn to :rolleyes:

 

He's not being forced to look it up. If he chooses not to, he's free to learn by trial and error. But saying people are just flat-out wrong because they choose to look up instead of trying it, is like saying people are wrong for choosing to read a textbook instead of doing the group project, even though the textbook teaches you in one day what a project would take a week, and you're guranteed to learn more from the textbook.

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Few interesting observation about the thread:

 

First Argument: Don't want to ruin the fun of finding out the mechanic, beforehand through reading guide, but expect someone to explain to them the tactics pre-fight.

Inconsistency: Your supposed fun should also be ruined when someone explain to you the mechanics pre-fight.

Analysis: A poor argument to hide one's laziness to read.

 

Second Argument: Not everyone can master the mechanics through reading.

Observation: No one is arguing you should. Reading will increase your understanding no matter what. Many guides are comprehensive and you can't expect op players to explain the level of detail available in guides.

Analysis: A poor strawman argument again to hide one's laziness.

Edited by XuShaBi
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Second Argument: Not everyone can master the mechanics through reading.

Observation: No one is arguing you should. Reading will increase your understanding no matter what. Many guides are comprehensive and you can't expect op players to explain the level of detail available in guides.

Analysis: A poor strawman argument again to hide one's laziness.

 

A little question. if people have to explain the tactics for me, no matter if I read it before joining the ops or not, what difference does it make?

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So much crying in this thread.

 

The whole point of the kick system is to remove players that don't fit in with rest of group. If group doesn't want to die 20 times to learn a fight and you do. You are removed. Same goes the other way. One player shouldn't control the group. Conform, leave or get kicked. I ask to get kick when group and my play style are different. There is no point in not enjoying your time in group. You shouldn't expect everyone to play like you.

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people that read guides are just lazy and not really gamers....just players. they lack the intelligence and patience to figure out the tricky situations and makes you wonder what would happen in RL if they run into a problem and they don't have a guide to refer to...must suck, huh?

 

part of the fun and excitement is figuring out the mechanics. you have the option of not running the pug with the new guys, you can easily go form your own groups with your guildies and friends.

 

edit - corrected spelling

Edited by Durban_Monkey
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Because, despite experience being quote "The best teacher", it seems that people like you never actually LEARN from these mistakes, and continue to make them. And we can't even explain what you're doing wrong to you, because as soon as we say "Hey dude, you need to move out of the way of the Unload cone to survive", you either A) ignore the advice and die AGAIN B) call us "elitist jerks" and ragequit, thus forcing us to requeue or C) spam "lolit'sjustagame" and Leeroy Jenkins the mob.

 

Google exists for a reason.

 

To help the brain dead of the internet figure out what went wrong.

 

And yes, it's also for dirty adult videos.

 

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