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[xxSHOONYxx]

And here's a vanguard one http://www.torparse.com/a/736911 (Pay no attention to "Commando") 2 actually, I wasn't sure if the CGC carried over in the first one, yay pvp 45 blues .-.

[TACeMossie]

Other things about the parse:

 

• Cotrex's Plasma Cell was last proc'd at 12:38:12.183 and then just kept getting refreshed from that point until the end of the parse! Zejim got similarly lucky, but not quite that much.
  
• Cotrex used substantially less Ion Pulse, Stockstrike and Hammer Shot and didn't use Pulse Cannon. Even accounting for the shorter parse, that's a heck of a lot less APM. This is born out in Torparse's APM check, but still…what could have been.
  
• Cotrex did use more Incendiary Round though. Judging by this, it's entirely possible that she's using a slightly different rotation than Zejim, putting more emphasis on DoT uptime.
  

 

I blame me for Cotrex using a different rotation. Much more prone to RNG (3 seperate places where Ionic can fail to proc in a 90 second period), but almost 100% uptime on the DoTs (and if the RNG works 100% of the time, so do the DoTs).

 

Its simply a rotation of

 

IM-> FB -> RP -> RS ->

FB -> RapidS -> FB -> RS ->

RP -> RapidS -> FB -> RS

 

TD is used immediately, and then is used on cooldown for either GCD 2 or 4 of each block, and rail shot is delayed to only replace a rapid shots or a flame burst. Now Cotrex didn't use that one exactly, rather opting for the "It can fail in 2 spots instead of 3" rotation of delaying Rocket Punch for a rail shot (which has same uptime on DoTs, but less damage from Rocket Punch and more from Ion Pulse), but it shows if Full'mechanics wants to beat cotrex, he'll have to dance with the RNG for more than just crits.

 

Note: If all the procs happen, it is heat neutral if you time the resource management skills perfectly.

 

Also, Full'mechanics may have more hits from hammer shots, but Hammer shots naturally has 40% more hits! (7 vs 5). Cotrex activated Rapid Shots 28 times vs Full'mechanic's 26 activations of Hammer Shot

 

This leaves only 2 phantom cooldowns for Cotrex (as in, she missed 2 cooldowns due to slight delays on some abilities) as opposed to how ever many you originally thought there were

 

Oh and it looked like full'mechanics went for the rotation* of:

 

IR -> IP -> SS -> HiB ->

TD -> IP -> IP -> HiB ->

SS -> HS -> IP -> HiB ->

 

by the end of it, based off having the same IR activations as cotrex, the same AP activations as his IR activations, and his SS activations being more in line to using it off cooldown.

 

*subject to slight tweaks mid fight for resource management

 

Thread derailment over!

Edited August 7, 2014 by TACeMossie

[TheLukeFactor]

I don't think the argument was about squeezing more rail shots in so much as the modification of crit rates and pushing up the time of death. which is why bonkurz was wondering why the execute phase started before 30%.

 

I think that's what the argument was. not 100% sure though. correct me if im wrong.

Edited August 7, 2014 by TheLukeFactor

[TACeMossie]

I don't think the argument was about squeezing more rail shots in so much as the modification of crit rates and pushing up the time of death. which is why bonkurz was wondering why the execute phase started before 30%.

 

I think that's what the argument was. not 100% sure though. correct me if im wrong.

 

He was actually pointing out the execute phase was starting significantly later than it should - at the 18% mark - for Cotrex's parse (I mean ***). Cotrex wasn't squeezing more rail shots in (the 3 seconds shorter in her parse can be explained by you opening with Pulse Cannon), though I was just explaining what Cotrex did to have less Rocket Punches/Flame Bursts and more Rapid Shots/Thermal Detonators than you.

 

Though I can personally attest to the frustrations of trying to get a parse where Stockstrike is kept on a 9 second cooldown, IR every 18 seconds, TD every 15 seconds, and an Ionic proc every 6. Theoretically, the proc rate at the end is 91%. In reality, its closer to a 100% proc rate on the predictable ones, and a 0% proc rate on the RNGd ones -_-

 

Also I learned something I was curious about before from this - The execute bonus is multiplicative, not additive. Which means all my numbers are off for optimal crit -_-

Edited August 7, 2014 by TACeMossie

[KeyboardNinja]

Also I learned something I was curious about before from this - The execute bonus is multiplicative, not additive. Which means all my numbers are off for optimal crit -_-

 

I didn't even think about it, but yeah it is. Wow, somehow I never realized…

[TACeMossie]

http://www.torparse.com/a/736892

 

I think I got the timing right for CGC. Although I'm not entirely sure where burnout starts to actually take place. You have about a 6k hp window where it theoretically could start, and on a 6 second dot it's hard to figure out when and when not to reapply it considering almost every ability you have reapplies it.

 

Easy: Use TD -> IM -> DFA to make it fall off

[xxSHOONYxx]

I leave my fate to Rheese and Tam (And TAC if he sticks around )

 

I know my parse was legitimate, although strange. Regardless of what they decide to make of it I will continue to stand by it, my skills, and my word. I suppose I should be honored I did so well as to warrant this kind of investigation But at the end of the day all I have is my word and any trust I've inspired. I have never had a reason to lie about my accomplishments before, and I don't to this day. I just hope I don't end up caught in the crossfire of Jab's discharge from the board.

 

If you have questions about the parse, my gear, my rotation etc. feel free to ask. Anything to help this investigation along.

[xxSHOONYxx]

Also I learned something I was curious about before from this - The execute bonus is multiplicative, not additive. Which means all my numbers are off for optimal crit -_-

 

God****** TAC I TRUSTED YOU!!!!!! YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE THE CHOSEN ONE

 

But lemme know what the new optimal rate is k?

 

Easy: Use TD -> IM -> DFA to make it fall off

 

I was trying to have CGC be the only dot up at the threshold change, to help out KBN/Bonk

Edited August 7, 2014 by xxSHOONYxx

[TACeMossie]

I leave my fate to Rheese and Tam (And TAC if he sticks around )

 

I know my parse was legitimate, although strange. Regardless of what they decide to make of it I will continue to stand by it, my skills, and my word. I suppose I should be honored I did so well as to warrant this kind of investigation But at the end of the day all I have is my word and any trust I've inspired. I have never had a reason to lie about my accomplishments before, and I don't to this day. I just hope I don't end up caught in the crossfire of Jab's discharge from the board.

 

If you have questions about the parse, my gear, my rotation etc. feel free to ask. Anything to help this investigation along.

 

Im currently more inclined to think burnout is bugged on PTs, because short of:

 

1. Getting an AMR off you

2. Using a lot of tediousness to check if every single ability is in the range of damage it should be

3. Wondering why the hell the execute took so long to kick in

4. Come to the conclusion you doctored the log

 

which honestly I can't be bothered getting past step 2, we wont be able to prove that it was doctored.

 

Oh and I decided to see if I could make a doctored parse to fool KBN's test (on a 500k dummy, with it being stated that its doctored beforehand), and just the relic procs make it so painful to do

 

How it would have been done:

1. Take my perfect RNG on IA parse from the PTS.

2. Take numbers from my top parse on live

3. Replace the top half of numbers with the ones in the parse (being reasonable on the crit rates of course)

 

Issues I hit:

1. Execute

2. Relic Procs

3. The sheer amount of numbers i'd have to go through for it.

 

End result? I gave up after I had pulled the numbers out (20 minutes in). It would have taken a good 3 hours to fake a 500k hp dummy parse using doctored numbers, and I can't imagine the amount of hair pulling frustration that would be required for a doctored 1.5 mill HP dummy.

Edited August 7, 2014 by TACeMossie

[TACeMossie]

God****** TAC I TRUSTED YOU!!!!!! YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE THE CHOSEN ONE

 

But lemme know what the new optimal rate is k?

 

 

 

I was trying to have CGC be the only dot up at the threshold change, to help out KBN/Bonk

 

I was too lazy to get the exact mods/enhancements/crystals/earpieces (but thats only 10 more seconds ), but its 412 min, 457 optimal, 503 max (0.01% discrepancy on average)

[xxSHOONYxx]

I was too lazy to get the exact mods/enhancements/crystals/earpieces (but thats only 10 more seconds ), but its 412 min, 457 optimal, 503 max (0.01% discrepancy on average)

 

For full Dread Master right?

[TACeMossie]

For full Dread Master right?

 

Yeah thats full Dread Masters. Im still aiming for ~370 (can't down bestia/brontes yet -_-) though I have a feeling that we are gonna get much better in about to change in about 5 weeks time (patch 2.10 AKA Buff ALL the crap specs!)

 

Though I haven't been back in NiM Brontes since I got my offhand...

Edited August 7, 2014 by TACeMossie

[xxSHOONYxx]

in about 5 weeks time (patch 2.10 AKA Buff ALL the crap specs!)

 

Waiting for 4k AP parse

 

And viable engineering w/out lolroll

 

Ha! who am I kidding RIP in peace Engi

 

[KeyboardNinja]

So, unless Cotrex is editing all her parses in exactly the same way and by the same amount (very hard to do, given the way in which she would have had to edit even just this parse to make everything align), I think Burnout might be bugged.

 

I went back and looked at http://www.torparse.com/a/731621. CGC value is 568, and the last normal tick is 18:59:49.086. We got a bit unlucky here, because both her relics proc'd in series before the next non-crit CGC tick, so I summed above and below like I did with Full'mechanics. Sum from above was 410,238, and the sum from below (starting at 19:00:08.080) was 343,793.

 

Here's what I would like to do to experiment. Zejim, you have pretty close to the same gear on both your mirrors. Could you give us a PT and a VG parse? They don't have to be particularly epic, and they can be on the 1 mil if you like (though the 1.5 mil will be more accurate). Anyone else who has both mirrors at 55 with full accuracy is also welcome to participate. The more data the better.

 

If this is true, then powertechs are parsing at a significant disadvantage.

[Benirons]

Wow that does look pretty odd I have a PT only, but ill try to do some testing. I guess the dot in question is the one coming from the cylinder?

 

Ill do a 500k one without relics, acc cap and no dots, just the one from the cylinder. Really curious now XD.

[TACeMossie]

So, unless Cotrex is editing all her parses in exactly the same way and by the same amount (very hard to do, given the way in which she would have had to edit even just this parse to make everything align), I think Burnout might be bugged.

 

I went back and looked at http://www.torparse.com/a/731621. CGC value is 568, and the last normal tick is 18:59:49.086. We got a bit unlucky here, because both her relics proc'd in series before the next non-crit CGC tick, so I summed above and below like I did with Full'mechanics. Sum from above was 410,238, and the sum from below (starting at 19:00:08.080) was 343,793.

 

Here's what I would like to do to experiment. Zejim, you have pretty close to the same gear on both your mirrors. Could you give us a PT and a VG parse? They don't have to be particularly epic, and they can be on the 1 mil if you like (though the 1.5 mil will be more accurate). Anyone else who has both mirrors at 55 with full accuracy is also welcome to participate. The more data the better.

 

If this is true, then powertechs are parsing at a significant disadvantage.

 

BTB Checking Cotrex's dps if burnout worked fine instead of not working fine

 

EDIT - Damn it was (approximately) 4400.1 dps D: (too lazy to go into execute range, so just got first 70%, pulled DoTs out of it, then did:

 

10 / (7/non-execute dps + 3/execute dps) where execute DPS is DPS + DoTs * 0.3

Edited August 7, 2014 by TACeMossie

[Benirons]

Log: http://www.torparse.com/a/737028/2/0/Log

 

No relics, no adrenal. Only CGC dot. I have used thermal sensor override just b4 30% mark to make it easy to identify in the log (just search for it). CGC started ticking much harder pretty quick (cant say if the dot was unrefreshed while going into execute phase or if it was refreshed right after sub 30% started).

 

IMO it seems to work fine.

 

BRB with two more parses for Thermal Det and Incendiary missile dots up while pushing into execute phase, will mark with thermal sensor override.

 

Here is the next one for Thermal Detonator. Look for death from above. I had TD dot ticking above 30% then pushed it sub 30 with DFA, while dot still ticking. No relics and adrenals for the record. I also turned off my cell to make sure only that dot is present at around that phase. From my brief look, TD dot was buffed correctly once sub 30%.

 

And the third for Incendiary Missile. Look at death from above again. Entered sub 30% soon after it. Once again IM dot seems to be buffed correctly with uptime b4 and after execute phase. Also turned off my cell for that short window for the record.

 

Personal take on this: dots get correctly buffed once execute phase hits even if the dots were up (well TD and IM, not sure about CGC) b4 the execute phase started.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Benirons

[SnickerJew]

So in other words, its not an anomaly. This is not a bug in this game and should not be looked at this way. If no one else can replicate this than the parse was doctored. End of story.

[Benirons]

I took a look at Cotrex' parse as well, I believe this window should be where she enters the execute phase. I looked at her original log and tried to get as close to 1,050,000 dmg as possible then took a small window around that instant.

 

I mainly looked at the lowest burning dot hits (they r very likely to be CGC ticks, especially the crits r easy to see as they never pass 2k).

 

This one struck me as rather puzzling:

 

12:38:39.639 Cotrex's Burning (Tech) critically hits Operations Training Dummy for 1251* elemental damage, causing 1251 threat!

 

Im pretty sure its s CGC dot crit and im also quite sure that it is in the execute phase (since it kickes in at around 12:38:35/6). It definitely does not look buffed either, my guess is that it should be ticking around 1500ish in the exectue phase when it crits.

 

Honestly? I dunno what the heck is going on XD. Il look a bit later on into that window to maybe find out whats happening.

 

Okay so took a closer look, searched for all the dot crits and this is the first one that struck me as actually buffed by execute phase:

 

12:39:04.033 Cotrex's Burning (Tech) critically hits Operations Training Dummy for 1495* elemental damage, causing 1495 threat!

 

Right after is it when all the dots r starting to tick and crit significantly harder. Right b4, the dot ticks r more in line with the minimum value hits that we can see in the damage dealt tab.

 

Conclcusion: Cotrex's execute phase started a good 30 secs later than it should have.

Why: Mystery.

 

All I can say is that Cotrex apparently lost out on dmg and her parse should have been a lil bit higher.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Benirons

[Benirons]

So in other words, its not an anomaly. This is not a bug in this game and should not be looked at this way. If no one else can replicate this than the parse was doctored. End of story.

 

Ur jumping to conclusions. There is definitely something odd going on once execute phase hits and when it actually hits (later than it should).

 

Doctored? There is that plausibility. But why would u want to tone the dps of an othewise legit parse down? Naturally seems counterintuitive unless im missing something.

[SnickerJew]

Conclcusion: Cotrex's execute phase started a good 30 secs later than it should have.

Why: Mystery.

 

That's all that needed to be said. No mystery.

[TheLukeFactor]

Conclcusion: Cotrex's execute phase started a good 30 secs later than it should have.

Why: Mystery.

 

Pretty sure that's why people are saying its doctored. They edited crit rates and ability damage to add more damage. and then cropped time of death to 1.5 million health. However didn't account for execute phase dot ticks, and wasn't thorough enough to correct them all.

[GrandLordMenace]

I would give Cotrex the benefit of the doubt. This isn't exactly something that can easily be edited or explained. For all we know, it could be a torparse rounding error (It after all misrounds cooldowns all the time), etc etc etc.

 

I think Cotrex' parse is extraordinary and SHOULD be scrutinized, but at the same time, knowing cotrex, I feel that we should give her the benefit of the doubt. She doesn't come across as an editor to me. Worst case scenario, just have her reparse. All too often we mistake a mystery for guilt. Just because something doesn't have an answer doesn't mean you just go randomly guessing. This is a game. It has bugs, some occur for every person, others don't. It also has random numbers, etc etc etc. While I don't have a PT or VG, I'd like to say that guesswork is not the same thing as fact, and if we need to determine what actually is causing this anomaly, we need more hard evidence.

Edited August 7, 2014 by GrandLordMenace

[SnickerJew]

This isn't exactly something that can easily be edited or explained

 

We just explained it. I understand guildies stick up for each other, but it has been proven. What more needs to be done.

[Archaetorrhi]

Woo, almost got my first 4k! I'll work on it tomorrow some more when I'm fresh and my internet is hopefully less dis-connecty. 35 more to go

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/737054 8/2/36 balance