*** Official PvE DPS Leaderboard ***

[Benirons]

You know sometimes I wonder how Tam (or the server for that matter) is able to put up with PV. U guys have the attidude of a kindergarden bully.

[Benirons]

Dont even bother, ur ignored.

[RynZelara]

You know sometimes I wonder how Tam (or the server for that matter) is able to put up with PV. U guys have the attidude of a kindergarden bully.

 

Don't start crap. End of story.

[VarekRayth]

Dont even bother, ur ignored.

 

So...has a certain focus sent read that guide in your sig yet or nah?

 

#focusrank1forbronteez

#toostronk

#BIG2

Edited August 6, 2014 by VarekRayth

[GrandLordMenace]

So...has a certain focus sent read that guide in your sig yet or nah?

 

#focusrank1forbronteez

#toostronk

#BIG2

 

Dude. You've been reported. Stop with the harassment and general dickishness and maybe learn to coexist with a community not attempt to start crap every 3 seconds.

Edited August 6, 2014 by GrandLordMenace

[GrandLordMenace]

Deleted cause petty insults are for nubs. Edited August 6, 2014 by GrandLordMenace

[xxSHOONYxx]

lawllllllllllllllllll

 

no.

 

gg no re.

 

Was that report a full clear or just 4/5?

Careful people

[KeyboardNinja]

As I have said previously, drama isn't tolerated in any form. Sev'ak's post is barely on the line (though if you waste my time with another troll parse, I'll evict your entire guild. you're a guildmaster; you should know better). Azreal's posts are over that line. Everyone drop it (Rydarus, that includes you).

[SnickerJew]

For the record, the method of cheating used by Jaberse can be detected with a simple script that sums the damage dealt between start and end times.

 

I would like to point out the post Sev linked was to make sure your "script" could detect what someone did in their link. It wasn't a malicious 'troll' post, but rather one that may have been worded incorrectly.

 

I'll evict your entire guild.

 

As far as this is concerned, I can do the same.

Edited August 6, 2014 by SnickerJew

[Damastes]

Given the animosity the rest of our server has seen between the guilds, I for one would have a hard time believing anything was done in the spirit of, aw-shucks, purely being helpful. If I'm wrong about that, I apologize, but the history is such that it's just so hard to tell. I'd imagine that's even more true for the people actually involved in it.

 

I am very disappointed by what Jaberse did, as I've both enjoyed and despised our DPS battles, but I haven't let it affect my impression of Aisthesis as a guild, as that would be foolish on many levels. Frankly, as someone with largely positive feelings about players from Aisthesis and Proper Villains, I've been pretty disappointed in general, of late. It's like they don't even know they were all placed here to please me.

[xxSHOONYxx]

To get the thread back on topic

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/736782

 

Shield tech gg let tank parsing begin

[KeyboardNinja]

I would like to point out the post Sev linked was to make sure your "script" could detect what someone did in their link. It wasn't a malicious 'troll' post, but rather one that may have been worded incorrectly.

 

That isn't a difficult thing to word. Something on the order of "Here's an edited parse to test your script." seems natural. When someone posts a parse under the name of "Inspired'by'morggan", it's not exactly a stretch to read that as a troll. If it was not intended as such, I apologize, but there was very little ambiguity about the original post (as evidenced by the fact that it was removed by the moderators despite the fact that I didn't report it).

 

As far as this is concerned, I can do the same.

 

And if my guildmaster were publicly trolling you or your guild, I would expect nothing else.

 

In any case, I'm with Cotrex: let's just get the thread back on topic.

Edited August 6, 2014 by KeyboardNinja

[ML_DoubleTap]

Jesus that's creepy But I welcome scrutiny

 

 

Parse witch hunt time?

 

I'm a parse analyst nerd so I enjoy this challenge.

 

In your parse if I look at the first First 50% or so of the fight I see that your minimum hit on your most common burn is 568 per tick. As we all know the Burnout skill provides a 30% buff to this burn when a target is below 30%. I chose 50% above just to be well within the >30% window. Now, if we get to the <30% window, and look at the last 25% or so you'll notice the minimum burn ticks are exactly the same. Now, if we get even further into the fight, like the last 18% of the parse we finally see that 568 minimum increasing, and it increases as expected, 568*1.3=738.4; in fact all three burns fall in line with this. I'm not sure how it would be possible that you were still getting the >30% numbers when the dummy should have been <30%.

 

Like I said I always give the benefit of the doubt, so I could absolutely be doing something wrong and I welcome a different explanation.

[KeyboardNinja]

I'm a parse analyst nerd so I enjoy this challenge.

 

In your parse if I look at the first First 50% or so of the fight I see that your minimum hit on your most common burn is 568 per tick. As we all know the Burnout skill provides a 30% buff to this burn when a target is below 30%. I chose 50% above just to be well within the >30% window. Now, if we get to the <30% window, and look at the last 25% or so you'll notice the minimum burn ticks are exactly the same. Now, if we get even further into the fight, like the last 18% of the parse we finally see that 568 minimum increasing, and it increases as expected, 568*1.3=738.4; in fact all three burns fall in line with this. I'm not sure how it would be possible that you were still getting the >30% numbers when the dummy should have been <30%.

 

Like I said I always give the benefit of the doubt, so I could absolutely be doing something wrong and I welcome a different explanation.

 

Worth noting that the last 30% of the HP on the dummy will be strictly less than the last 30% of the time in the parse, due to the execute. In fact, by using fast-and-loose math, we know that burn damage is increased by 30% in the sub-30 range. In Cotrex's parse, that would be 30.11% of her total damage increased by 30% during the execute (this is hand-wavy, because the overal pie includes the execute). Thus, the net damage increase during the execute is 0.3*0.3011 = 9.03%. This in turn implies that the last 30% of the dummy's HP should be at most 0.3 * (1 - 0.0903) = 27.29% of the total time. That alone certainly doesn't bring us down to the 18% margin, so something else would have to be going on. Crits, relic procs, adrenal coming off CD, Explosive Fuel coming off CD, or even just higher ability rolls (between min and max value) are all things that would need to be examined.

 

Incidentally, Tann'se, if you want to really dig into the parse… Pull up each of the ability Effect Details on torhead. For each ability, write a function in terms of bonus damage which predicts the non-crit value range of the ability, taking into account the full talent tree, dummy armor (and armor debuff), execute talents, etc. Then randomly audit the log for ability instances not under adrenal or relic procs. Get as many as you can, invert your functions and solve for bonus damage. If any ability (or a set of ability instances) gives a bonus damage range which is statistically aberrant, it has a high probability of being edited. You can also cross-check this with what you think Cotrex's gear level is, to see if it actually fits (this is where this validation method really shines, since it can even catch someone editing their log with a simulator).

Edited August 6, 2014 by KeyboardNinja

[ML_DoubleTap]

Worth noting that the last 30% of the HP on the dummy will be strictly less than the last 30% of the time in the parse, due to the execute. In fact, by using fast-and-loose math, we know that burn damage is increased by 30% in the sub-30 range. In Cotrex's parse, that would be 30.11% of her total damage increased by 30% during the execute (this is hand-wavy, because the overal pie includes the execute). Thus, the net damage increase during the execute is 0.3*0.3011 = 9.03%. This in turn implies that the last 30% of the dummy's HP should be at most 0.3 * (1 - 0.0903) = 27.29% of the total time. That alone certainly doesn't bring us down to the 18% margin, so something else would have to be going on. Crits, relic procs, adrenal coming off CD, Explosive Fuel coming off CD, or even just higher ability rolls (between min and max value) are all things that would need to be examined.

 

I took the percentages by damage done, or another way to look at it, HP. The first one was when 744k damage was done. The second one was the last 359k damage and the last was the final 275k damage. I didn't just take percentage based on time.

 

Edit: if you look at the log view on the last two links you'll see they both include "Kills Operation Dummy" so you can tell that they are both below 30% hp which would be 500k damage done.

Edited August 6, 2014 by ML_DoubleTap

[KeyboardNinja]

I took the percentages by damage done, or another way to look at it, HP. The first one was when 744k damage was done. The second one was the last 359k damage and the last was the final 275k damage. I didn't just take percentage based on time.

 

Ah, that's very confusing then. Not sure what your analysis means then. Playing devil's advocate, if Cotrex were to have edited her log, one would think that shrinking the execute phase in terms of damage dealt would reduce her DPS, not increase it.

Edited August 6, 2014 by KeyboardNinja

[ML_DoubleTap]

Ah, that's very confusing then. Not sure what your analysis means then. Playing devil's advocate, if Cotrex were to have edited her log, one would think that shrinking the execute phase in terms of damage dealt would reduce her DPS, not increase it.

 

Or that she subbed in several crits where there weren't crits and didn't account for when the execute should have happened. Then, moved the "Kills combat dummy" up in the parse appropriately. Which would explain ridiculously high crit rate.

Edited August 6, 2014 by ML_DoubleTap

[xxSHOONYxx]

I guess with my parse under the magnifying glass I should chime in with what I know of how powertechs work, and that particular parse experience.

 

Gimme a minute to hop on and mess around with abilities and do some short parses to see if I can figure out what's going on.

 

I can 100% assure you it was a legitimate parse (Crazy but legitimate), if not may I be banned from swtor for all time. (mods I'm looking at you to fulfill this)

 

But yeah, gimme a minute to figure stuff out

[KeyboardNinja]

I can 100% assure you it was a legitimate parse (Crazy but legitimate), if not may I be banned from swtor for all time. (mods I'm looking at you to fulfill this)

 

I don't think they fulfill things like that. :-) In either case, I'm looking into it and I definitely welcome further analysis and help. It's much easier to check these sorts of things when I don't have to do all of the math myself.

[ML_DoubleTap]

If you look at Full'Mechanics parse the cutoff of tick size is almost exactly at the 1mil->500k cutoff. Here's the two sections:

 

>30%: http://www.torparse.com/a/731837/time/1406715217/1406715450/0/Damage+Dealt

<30%: http://www.torparse.com/a/731837/time/1406715462/1406715565/0/Damage+Dealt

 

There is a small bit of over lap which brought something to light that I didn't realize before. The DoT ticks don't seem to automatically start hitting harder at 30%, but on the next application after 30%. If you notice, Full'Mechanics Burning effect wears off at 6:17:40 and there's never a DoT that hits for the >30% minimum again. I verified that the parse in question had the DoTs fade but still hit for the weaker version after reapplication.

 

That does make for an interesting note for parsing in DoT specs that get a boots <30%. If you're close to 30% don't reapply until after you hit that mark.

[KeyboardNinja]

Pitching in some of my own analysis here…

 

Cotrex's Plasma Cell ticks for 568 unbuffed, and 739 under the execute. Luckily for us, the breakpoint between these two values is not under either relic or adrenal, and falls at 12:39:00.119. Summing up the total damage dealt after this point, I got 342,807, whereas we would have expected 450,000. Summing up damage above that point as a sanity check, I saw 1,153,390, where 1050000 was expected. Total damage summed by my method was 1496197, which is exactly within "torparse rounding". Thus, the Plasma Cell DoT only acquired the execute value at 22.85% of max health on the dummy.

 

That's…weird. It's harder to isolate the other two DoTs. If someone can help out there, that would be great.

 

Other things about the parse:

 

• Cotrex's Plasma Cell was last proc'd at 12:38:12.183 and then just kept getting refreshed from that point until the end of the parse! Zejim got similarly lucky, but not quite that much.
  
• Cotrex used substantially less Ion Pulse, Stockstrike and Hammer Shot and didn't use Pulse Cannon. Even accounting for the shorter parse, that's a heck of a lot less APM. This is born out in Torparse's APM check, but still…what could have been.
  
• Cotrex did use more Incendiary Round though. Judging by this, it's entirely possible that she's using a slightly different rotation than Zejim, putting more emphasis on DoT uptime.
  

 

If my math is accurate, Cotrex has 1738.74 tech bonus damage, while Full'mechanics has 1795.29. That sounds about right as far as gear disparity goes.

 

Much has been said about Cotrex's crits. Honestly, given the rotational differences, the closeness of the gear, and some of the luck difference on the procs between the two parses, I would guess that if one is legit, the other is legit, absent this execute weirdness. The parses are certainly close enough that, accounting for the crit differences magnified by the surge talent, any falsification that might have taken place couldn't have been very substantial (except for crit rate editing).

 

---

 

As a sanity check, I looked at Full'mechanics's parse, specifically examining the same execute question. His Plasma Cell ticks for 584, which is 759 under the execute. His first such execute tick is at 06:17:51.154; his last non-execute tick is at 06:17:33.027. This last unbuffed tick though was immediately prior to a Power Surge proc. Summing the damage from the start of the Power Surge proc to the end of the parse, we get 499,138 (recall: 450k is 30%). Summing the damage from the first execute PC tick gives 423,534, so we have a nice bound.

 

In other words, it really seems like it's just Cotrex's log which looks weird w.r.t. the execute. We need to isolate the DoT damage from Thermal Detonator and Incendiary Missile. Especially since Cotrex didn't have a relic rolling when her CGC crossed the execute threshold, we should be able to say definitive things about where IM and TD crossed that same threshold.

 

The DoT ticks don't seem to automatically start hitting harder at 30%, but on the next application after 30%.

 

I need a parse which definitively confirms this please. Someone take a powertech/vanguard, unequip your relics, don't use adrenals and try to get a CGC DoT to cross the 30% boundary pre-applied. I can confirm that Cotrex's CGC DoT does increase in value without reapplication.

 

 

12:39:00.119 Cotrex's Burning (Tech) hits Operations Training Dummy for 568 elemental damage, causing 568 threat.

12:39:00.119 Cotrex's Rail Shot critically hits Operations Training Dummy for 8976* energy damage, causing 8976 threat!

12:39:00.919 Cotrex's Burning (Tech) hits Operations Training Dummy for 793 elemental damage, causing 793 threat.

12:39:00.920 Cotrex's Incendiary Missile effect of Burning (Tech) fades from Operations Training Dummy.

12:39:01.011 Cotrex activates Incendiary Missile.

12:39:01.012 Cotrex spends 16 energy.

12:39:01.219 Cotrex's Incendiary Missile adds effect Burning (Tech) to Operations Training Dummy.

12:39:01.618 Cotrex's Burning (Tech) hits Operations Training Dummy for 849 elemental damage, causing 849 threat.

12:39:01.707 Cotrex's Incendiary Missile hits Operations Training Dummy for 1137 elemental damage, causing 1137 threat.

12:39:02.541 Cotrex activates Rapid Shots.

12:39:02.541 Cotrex's Burning (Tech) hits Operations Training Dummy for 739 elemental damage, causing 739 threat.

 

 

So that means one of three things:

 

• Powertech's CGC doesn't require reapplication but Vanguard's PC does (i.e. there's a bug)
  
• You're slightly misinterpreting Full'mechanic's log (remember, he had two relic procs crossing the execute boundary)
  
• Cotrex falsified her log
  

 

Test results from a powertech and a vanguard showing the DoT crossing the 30% threshold would be definitive on this point. If both classes require reapplication, then the log is false. If the value simply automatically increases (which would be uniform with all other DoT effects in the game), then we haven't really learned anything from that point.

Edited August 6, 2014 by KeyboardNinja

[xxSHOONYxx]

http://www.torparse.com/a/736892

 

I think I got the timing right for CGC. Although I'm not entirely sure where burnout starts to actually take place. You have about a 6k hp window where it theoretically could start, and on a 6 second dot it's hard to figure out when and when not to reapply it considering almost every ability you have reapplies it.

Edited August 6, 2014 by xxSHOONYxx

[ML_DoubleTap]

That's…weird. It's harder to isolate the other two DoTs. If someone can help out there, that would be great.

 

>30% TD burns hit for 849 and 1104 <30%

>30% IM burns hit for 739 and 1031 <30%

 

The last 849 happened at 12:39:01,

12:39:01.618 Cotrex's Burning (Tech) hits Operations Training Dummy for 849 elemental damage, causing 849 threat

 

The last 739 happened at 12:39:00,

12:39:00.919 Cotrex's Burning (Tech) hits Operations Training Dummy for 793 elemental damage, causing 793 threat

 

The exact same time you found the last unbuffed CGC tick and I'd suspect when the execute range actually happened if the parse was altered. TD and IM were both activated right at this time too, so it's tough to say if my other hypothesis was correct about needing to reapply to get the execute benefit for sure or not.

[Benirons]

To get the thread back on topic

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/736782

 

Shield tech gg let tank parsing begin

 

Wow PT tank seem to be quite a bit ahead. If I do one more ever, ill put force charge into my rotation. Looks like u did something similar too.

[xxSHOONYxx]

Wow PT tank seem to be quite a bit ahead. If I do one more ever, ill put force charge into my rotation. Looks like u did something similar too.

 

Mainly for heat management, charge gets you 2 free flame sweeps so I like to pair it up with Death from above since you need to move a bit back for that.