Please change set bouns

[BigjoeHoe]

are you finished with your two's hissy fit yet? haha...i have two comments unreplied to, but if you don't have an interest in a meaningful convo I'll go ahead and unsub to the thread, no worries

 

BHAHAH Nope i think this "Hissy fit" will go on forever until he realizes hes wrong witch yes i know that's being closed minded but im normally not like this at all im a very open person all my rotations for any class come from a wide range of players just tune it to my liking and what i think is best, and yes i do read all the comments and see them all i just get distracted when i see this guy here (not you) *points fingers at aerroh* comments and just face palm

 

About the timing thing on using Dart/RP yes i realize the timing is small but doing a TM you cant move so thats another reason why i use it for the mobility (idk if i spelled that right). And im sorry what was the 2nd posted you wanted responded to?

[odawgg]

BHAHAH Nope i think this "Hissy fit" will go on forever until he realizes hes wrong witch yes i know that's being closed minded but im normally not like this at all im a very open person all my rotations for any class come from a wide range of players just tune it to my liking and what i think is best, and yes i do read all the comments and see them all i just get distracted when i see this guy here (not you) *points fingers at aerroh* comments and just face palm

 

About the timing thing on using Dart/RP yes i realize the timing is small but doing a TM you cant move so thats another reason why i use it for the mobility (idk if i spelled that right). And im sorry what was the 2nd posted you wanted responded to?

 

thank you. Now please understand I'm just trying to be helpful, I've noticed that you can take some critique to heart, and maybe it's just cuz of the feud ur having with ur guildie.

 

Your reasoning to use these abilities on the move is justified, but I'm trying to emphasize that using these abilities in a stand still rotation is a dps loss...we're meant to be turrets especially in PVE..in PVP I can see utilizing these abilities more often to try and throw off the defender. You were pointing out struggles you were having in heat management and increasing the usage of rapid shots will result in better heat management and what follows with better heat management is a "dps gain" not a loss just cuz rapid shots is a weak attack.

 

The ability to heat manage while keeping APMs up (forcing more rapid shots) is what sets mercs apart from eachother. This requires discipline, and understanding not every attack can be one that hits for 3k+. It's a common misconception that just cuz we need to use more auto attacks that our dps is taking a hit, cuz it's really not, just takes adjusting.....2883 DPS is what we're capable of and that's not even BiS yet. That being said, it's not as easy anymore, and by that i mean, we need to be more aware, and for a lot of players, being aware of your heat on top of fight mechanics is a steep learning curve.

 

Anyway, happy hunting, hope you two can work things out!

[TeH-DeVa]

Your post was awfully opinionated for someone who clearly needs to L2P. The above statement proves that. Show me a legitimate competitive parse that doesn't use rapid shots and make me swallow my words. I dare you

 

Edit: I agree heat management is easy though....when you use rapid shots. It's literally impossible to spam heat costing abilities without using rapid shots. Unless you're delaying between actions...which results in an overall dps loss

 

I don't need to L2P - you do. I've been playing merc and ONLY merc since dec 13th 2011 and during the last two waves of beta.

 

I bet you are also one of those people who doesnt think unload is 60% of the damage for arsenal? - I don't EVER use rapid shots unless I'm trying to kill something weak and think it'll be faster than a cast time. The key is to NEVER use tracer missle three times - sadly so MANY people do - perfect rotation=TM>unload>heatseeker>TM>TM>RS>unload>TM>heatseeker etc etc etc - as long as you ALWAYS stay under 40 heat you will never go over this - since i have 9% alacrity in pve it's a cake walk tbqh

 

just L2P and don't take my damage away - heat watching is a joke - always has been

[TeH-DeVa]

I will make a parse after I'm done with work if someone gives me a link to a program that does parsing - I only normally use my razer keyboard for parsing which does not allow for forum posting.

[Aerro]

Deva, hes not saying that if you don't use Rapid Shots then you're bad. You can still pull decent numbers without ever having to use it, however, your optimal DPS does require some sort of Rapid Shot weaving.

 

Also about the Tracer Missile x3 argument. What else will you use instead? I know there are times that everything is on cooldown and I'm getting terrible luck with Barrage procs. I'm stuck using Tracer Missile quite a bit. Standing around doing nothing will help my heat lower, but it won't keep my DPS going. DPS = Damage/Time. The less damage you're throwing out, the less DPS you will do. Rapid Shots hits for quite a bit, but if you're forced to use it then that means you've pushed your heat up with a burst of damage that is it required to. There is some give and take and a fine line between managing heat with Rapid Shots and ruining heat management and then relying on Rapid Shots. If not done properly, your DPS won't be soaring.

 

I will still add that Rapid Shots, if used appropriately, is a DPS increase over what you are doing.

 

 

Edit: To upload a parse, make sure you have combat logging turned on. When it is, go to the Operations Target Dummy and DPS for ~5min. When you're done, go to TORParse.com and upload that log. It is found in your documents under SWTOR.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Aerro

[The_Duck]

I'm basically in Dread Guard gear and kind of holding on to the old 2-piece bonus until I can win

some Arkanian drops in order to get the new 2-pc set bonus.

 

In the meantime I'm at 100% acc, and then mostly power/surge (haven't been able to upgrade my augments yet).

 

I'm parsing ~16-1700 during Ops boss fights (S&V normal and TFB norm and the Golden Boss Norm).

 

With where I am at with gear am I at the proper dps numbers?

Thanks.

http://www.torparse.com/a/207171/27/0/Damage+Dealt

[Aerro]

I'm basically in Dread Guard gear and kind of holding on to the old 2-piece bonus until I can win

some Arkanian drops in order to get the new 2-pc set bonus.

 

In the meantime I'm at 100% acc, and then mostly power/surge (haven't been able to upgrade my augments yet).

 

I'm parsing ~16-1700 during Ops boss fights (S&V normal and TFB norm and the Golden Boss Norm).

 

With where I am at with gear am I at the proper dps numbers?

Thanks.

http://www.torparse.com/a/207171/27/0/Damage+Dealt

 

Not quite exactly :/ What is your mainstat at? Full DG gear should have you a lot higher on those parses listed. Maybe RNG kept the numbers low, but other than that they should be at the very least a little higher. Writhing Horror kind of caught my attention on that seeing as its generally a patchwerk style fight with a good AoE phase.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Aerro

[TeH-DeVa]

Here is my parse I just did. Please keep in mind I'm in healers gear - full 69s (except main hand is 66) so I don't have a set bonus or accuracy.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/214037/3/0/Overview

 

*edit* as you can see - 0 rapid shots

Edited May 7, 2013 by TeH-DeVa

[Aerro]

Here is my parse I just did. Please keep in mind I'm in healers gear - full 69s (except main hand is 66) so I don't have a set bonus or accuracy.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/214037/3/0/Overview

 

*edit* as you can see - 0 rapid shots

 

Not bad at all! However, you can see immediately what happens if you do not use Rapid Shots in the least bit: Low APM. You're well under 30, and most of us get to 34-36 depending on the fight. That shows that you're doing ~8 attacks less per minute which results in a pretty steep DPS loss.

 

Lets underestimate it here just for the sake of it: Assuming each attack did 2000 damage flat. That is 16000 damage less than you should be doing at the bare minimum.

 

Roughly, you're losing 266 DPS with that low of an APM.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Aerro

[TeH-DeVa]

Not bad at all! However, you can see immediately what happens if you do not use Rapid Shots in the least bit: Low APM. You're well under 30, and most of us get to 34-36 depending on the fight. That shows that you're doing ~8 attacks less per minute which results in a pretty steep DPS loss.

 

Lets underestimate it here just for the sake of it: Assuming each attack did 2000 damage flat. That is 16000 damage less than you should be doing at the bare minimum.

 

Roughly, you're losing 266 DPS with that low of an APM.

 

But rapid shots doesnt do as much as my other attacks - i never spent even a split second where i was not doing an attack - not even a single mili-second - there would be nowhere to fit an extra attack - while spamming rapid shots instead of using my unload proc WOULD have gained me extra apm - it sadly just doesnt do as much damage.

[TeH-DeVa]

You saying that I'm missing out on damage doesn't really make sense when I can't add more seconds to a minute.

[Aerro]

You saying that I'm missing out on damage doesn't really make sense when I can't add more seconds to a minute.

 

But rapid shots doesnt do as much as my other attacks - i never spent even a split second where i was not doing an attack - not even a single mili-second

 

You can analyze the logs and notice that there are sometimes windows in between your casts... some upwards to a whole 2 seconds. That is a missing cast right there. I hardly even went though it though. I'm sure I can find at least 5 or more gaps like that in this log, which means those are all casts you could have had, or made.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Aerro

[TeH-DeVa]

You can analyze the logs and notice that there are sometimes windows in between your casts... some upwards to a whole 2 seconds. That is a missing cast right there. I hardly even went though it though. I'm sure I can find at least 5 or more gaps like that in this log, which means those are all casts you could have had, or made.

 

You realize a cast takes time right? I can't cast while I cast incase you were unaware. I never paused for 2 seconds and I am looking over the combat log and the only times I see pauses are when I'm casting.

 

For example: there is a two second pause between the 44th second and the 46th second...this may look like a two second pause but looking at the miliseconds you realize it's 44.9 and 46.5 - thats a cast time - thats not a full 2 seconds. That's really early and prob what you glimpsed without reading.

 

*edit* also that pause is between a TM and barrage - would you rather me use rapid shots instead of barrage? lul

Edited May 7, 2013 by TeH-DeVa

[Aerro]

You realize a cast takes time right? I can't cast while I cast incase you were unaware. I never paused for 2 seconds and I am looking over the combat log and the only times I see pauses are when I'm casting.

 

For example: there is a two second pause between the 44th second and the 46th second...this may look like a two second pause but looking at the miliseconds you realize it's 44.9 and 46.5 - thats a cast time - thats not a full 2 seconds. That's really early and prob what you glimpsed without reading.

 

Lol, I'm talking about the use of an instant into a cast. Sometimes there are 1.9second windows that are just blank. I'm not trying to argue with you. Your APM shows it. Low APM indicates less overall damage- which goes hand in hand with DPS. You can go look at Odawgs logs. His APM is much higher, and his DPS shows for it (2800+). Of course he outgears you, but that is a 600+ DPS difference... and going from 66s/69s to partial 72s isn't going to give that.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Aerro

[TeH-DeVa]

Lol, I'm talking about the use of an instant into a cast. Sometimes there are 1.9second windows that are just blank. I'm not trying to argue with you. Your APM shows it. Low APM indicates less overall damage- which goes hand in hand with DPS. You can go look at Odawgs logs. His APM is much higher, and his DPS shows for it (2800+). Of course he outgears you, but that is a 600+ DPS difference... and going from 66s/69s to partial 72s isn't going to give that.

 

I bet he has accuracy though - I missed 8% that accuracy would have made up for i bet he also had a set bonus which increases TM damage and RS - thats more damage I don't have. I also have a 66 mainhand - the biggest increase of a single piece of gear for damage.

 

I never paused 1.9 seconds - show me where you see that. I have a low apm because instead of ever using rapid shots i instead use unload tm railshot and hs - but i dont ever pause in between them - apm does not mean for sure higher damage if you are using longer cast times attacks - i could hit the max apm by using ONLY rapid shots but it would not make me have higher DPS

[Aerro]

I bet he has accuracy though - I missed 8% that accuracy would have made up for i bet he also had a set bonus which increases TM damage and RS - thats more damage I don't have. I also have a 66 mainhand - the biggest increase of a single piece of gear for damage.

 

I never paused 1.9 seconds - show me where you see that. I have a low apm because instead of ever using rapid shots i instead use unload tm railshot and hs - but i dont ever pause in between them - apm does not mean for sure higher damage if you are using longer cast times attacks - i could hit the max apm by using ONLY rapid shots but it would not make me have higher DPS

 

You can hit 40-42 APM by using just rapid shots, so yes it isn't something to base everything off of, however you're under 30. That is a massive hit to your DPS.

 

I will also add that he most likely isn't using the new 4pc as it isn't a DPS increase. While your Accuracy is low, most of your misses were from Unload OH (which is going to be everyones). You did manage to miss a few big abilities but nothing to play into the offset of over 600 DPS. He parsed at 2888 DPS, so thats a 685 DPS difference.

 

I guess your best bet is to wait until you get a few more pieces and try to match that, otherwise I don't know what to tell you. His gear isn't BiS and he is doing almost a little under 700 more DPS than you on a target dummy, so the environments are the same on both sides. Like I said before, the transition from 66/69 to 72 isn't that large. Now, 63 to 72 is. However, most of us are still using 63 enhancements (and 2 63 armorings for old 2pc) so keep that in mind.

[odawgg]

You saying that I'm missing out on damage doesn't really make sense when I can't add more seconds to a minute.

You are missing out on damage, but it’s not quite as much as Aerro is analyzing. You can’t add more heat resource per minute, so the only additional damage you could do is from Rapid shots, which you could add about 6 more per minute (difference in 29 APM vs 35 APM). Depending on your gear, we can roughly say rapid shots hits for about 1.5k instead of the 2k that was used in Aerro’s post.

 

I realize this is your argument for that:

 

I have a low apm because instead of ever using rapid shots i instead use unload tm railshot and hs - but i dont ever pause in between them - apm does not mean for sure higher damage if you are using longer cast times attacks - i could hit the max apm by using ONLY rapid shots but it would not make me have higher DPS

 

However, this simply isn’t an accurate statement.

 

Ok, I’m only going to explain this once, cuz I don’t want to argue. You’re either willing to learn or not, that’s entirely up to you. I apologize if this comes off as condescending, but….it is what it is

 

First of all, thank you for uploading your parse, now it can be analyzed.

 

Yours: http://www.torparse.com/a/214037/3/0/Damage+Dealt

Mine: http://www.torparse.com/a//1/0/Damage+Dealt

 

Now forget about overall damage or dps, we have different gear, it can’t be compared. Here’s what can be compared (and FYI I removed the abilities casted in the final 15s of your parse so it is identical time as mine, mine being 15s shorter):

 

Yours:

APM: 29

# of HSM: 19

# of RS: 18

# of UL: 28

 

Mine:

APM: 35

# of HSM: 20

# of RS: 19

# of UL: 28

 

These are the abilities worth comparing, cuz these are the ones that have a cd, in the case of UL, it needs to be proc’d in order to take it off cd sooner. As you can see, I was “slightly” more efficient with my HSM and RS, since I was able to get off 1 more of each in the 5 minute span. This is one minor thing you can work to improve, however you’re very efficient already.

 

Also as you can see we used the SAME amount of UL, so your theory of using more unloads to manage heat is negated. What you need to do is decrease the amount of delays you have between abilities and increase the use of rapid shots. You are delaying every time you are fishing for a barrage proc. Instead of doing this, you can use one of two methods:

 

1. Queue UL while TM is casting, if barrage doesn’t proc, hit TM quickly

2. Queue TM while TM is casting, if barrage does proc, step out of it and cast UL

 

I use method one, but they both can work. You also have to be mindful of your heat, you’re not always going to be able to queue these abilities, you may need to queue Rapid shots instead if it’s gonna result in heat > 40. Remember, your barrage proc ISN’T GOING ANYWHERE. You don’t need to use it immediately if heat doesn’t allow, you can fire a rapid shots then cast UL and the barrage proc will still be there. This goes for HSM and RS, if they come off cd as you proc barrage, get them in first, then proceed to UL ( I didn’t analyze your log thoroughly enough to see if you’re already doing this last sentence, but just being thorough in my advice).

 

This will decrease your overall delays allowing you to increase your APMs. By getting in 6 more rapid shots per minute (I actually use closer to 7-8/min because I don’t have the old 4pc DG set bonus anymore offering -8 heat to RS, I use the 2pc/2pc combo), and using the arbitrary average damage of Rapid shots (1.5k) you will increase your dps by about 150, and that scales higher as you gear.

 

The last thing you could do, would be to use vent heat on cd. You used it at the beginning of the encounter, but then never used it again. When you see vent heat cd is at about 10-12s, you can start ramping it up again to vent heat when it comes off cd.

 

All that being said, you have room for improvement, but you’re skilled enough at the rest of your rotation to still be a viable dps merc. But every little bit helps and if you want to be competitive, you need that little bit.

[The_Duck]

Not quite exactly :/ What is your mainstat at? Full DG gear should have you a lot higher on those parses listed. Maybe RNG kept the numbers low, but other than that they should be at the very least a little higher. Writhing Horror kind of caught my attention on that seeing as its generally a patchwerk style fight with a good AoE phase.

 

Thanks for looking.

Totally unbuffed I am at 2504 Aim and 132 Cunning (Primary Damage 1127 - 1429)

Currently i just have the old war hero boundless relics ...

[Aerro]

Thanks for looking.

Totally unbuffed I am at 2504 Aim and 132 Cunning (Primary Damage 1127 - 1429)

Currently i just have the old war hero boundless relics ...

 

I don't know how much the Crit DR really changed DPS, but in old 50 gear I was pulling much more than that. Honestly, just practice a bit and gear up and you'll do fine. None of this content really pushes too much in terms of DPS.

[TyrKartelos]

I'm confused. I'm 55 and havent had a set bonus in quite sometime and have had no issues with heat. Granted on longer boss fights I may need to use vent heat once depending on what I am throwing out but for the most part it is a non issue. Do you start generating more heat with these higher tier sets? for reference I'm in mostly 69 gear now.

[yoomazir]

I'm confused. I'm 55 and havent had a set bonus in quite sometime and have had no issues with heat. Granted on longer boss fights I may need to use vent heat once depending on what I am throwing out but for the most part it is a non issue. Do you start generating more heat with these higher tier sets? for reference I'm in mostly 69 gear now.

 

 

Nah, it's just some pugs QQing because they can't manage heat.

Edited May 8, 2013 by yoomazir

[Aerro]

I'm confused. I'm 55 and havent had a set bonus in quite sometime and have had no issues with heat. Granted on longer boss fights I may need to use vent heat once depending on what I am throwing out but for the most part it is a non issue. Do you start generating more heat with these higher tier sets? for reference I'm in mostly 69 gear now.

 

Not necessarily. A lot of us are stacking the 2pc bonus so we are still missing out on the 2 heat Rail Shots, but if managed properly you still won't have heat issues. However, I know that sometimes lag will screw me over and mess with me heat as I experienced on the first boss in HM SV lastnight lol.

[BigjoeHoe]

Updated my merc dps guide if anyone here wants to see how i mange my heat

 

 

 

yeah i know worst unload procs for a guide video o well bhaha

[odawgg]

Updated my merc dps guide if anyone here wants to see how i mange my heat

 

 

 

yeah i know worst unload procs for a guide video o well bhaha

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...on just about everything haha.

[ekimmak]

It probably isn't the place to point out, but does the OP know that they misspelled bonus?

 

Really, I doubt the devs are going to even consider changing the set bonus, and eventually, the stuff we have will become statistically inefficient. Might as well get used to the new ones now.