Please change set bouns

[BigjoeHoe]

The Underworld 4 Set Bonus still increase's the damage of rail shot by 8% but this DESTROYS Heat Management and makes it very easy to mess up on rotations.

 

PLEASE FIX HEAT (Personally i rather see the Old 4set bonus)

[Messiaah]

Just use the 2pc bonus of the new (arkanian/underworld) and 2pc bonus of the old armorings (dreadguard) and you will get an additional 30% crit on ur tracer missle, that's a lot better than a little bit less heat. I can confirm that the bonuses stack, i tested it on live. Edited April 19, 2013 by Messiaah

[BigjoeHoe]

Just use the 2pc bonus of the new (arkanian/underworld) and 2pc bonus of the old armorings (dreadguard) and you will get an additional 30% crit on ur tracer missle, that's a lot better than a little bit less heat. I can confirm that the bonuses stack, i tested it on live.

 

 

The set bonus's don't stack its been confirmed, even if they did that lost in heat management is still a lost in dps we need to change the set bonus Back to the old, any good DPS merc knows this

[Never_Hesitate]

The set bonus's don't stack its been confirmed, even if they did that lost in heat management is still a lost in dps we need to change the set bonus Back to the old, any good DPS merc knows this

 

the stacking has been confirmed with cd reducing set bonuses

[BigjoeHoe]

the stacking has been confirmed with cd reducing set bonuses

 

OHHH REALLY hmm well then still 2nd part is true

[odawgg]

OHHH REALLY hmm well then still 2nd part is true

 

I'll start by saying I'm with ya on this, I wish they'd revert to the old 4pc set bonus as well. If there's a petition to have it done, sign me up! But i did do some testing on comparing the old 4pc with the 2/2 stacked TM crit bonus:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6171198&postcount=33

 

When it came to the dummy, I found both variations to be pretty even, but when it comes to actual boss fights, the amount of TMs used goes up quite a bit, some fights more than others, increasing the value of the 2/2 stack by quite a bit over the old 4pc IMO & it's definitely better than the new 4pc.

[Aerro]

I wish the 4pc would just make Railshot 0 heat again haha.

[odawgg]

I wish the 4pc would just make Railshot 0 heat again haha.

 

^^^ It's obvious they put this new 4pc in for the pyro spec cuz the 0 heat doesn't benefit them at all...I wish BW could do a better balancing job between these two specs...it's obvious to me they don't put a lot of thought into it.

[Aerro]

^^^ It's obvious they put this new 4pc in for the pyro spec cuz the 0 heat doesn't benefit them at all...I wish BW could do a better balancing job between these two specs...it's obvious to me they don't put a lot of thought into it.

 

They don't put a lot of thought in:

 

1) Stat Optimization on pieces. Did you see some of the Alacrity on Eliminator's gear?

2) Unique Set bonuses for different ACs.

3) Most of everything PvE related.

[odawgg]

They don't put a lot of thought in:

 

1) Stat Optimization on pieces. Did you see some of the Alacrity on Eliminator's gear?

2) Unique Set bonuses for different ACs.

3) Most of everything PvE related.

 

Totally, I don't necessarily mind the stat optimization thing, cuz I think their intent is to make you work harder for the BiS pieces (however alacrity on dps and accuracy on tanks? I agree with you that you need to draw the line there as well), but I would like to see unique set bonuses for sure.

[Macroeconomics]

Alacrity has value for dps now. But yes, they do seem to have gone out of their way to have the initial equipment you buy have all the secondary stats (ex. Crit) that you don't want.

[BigjoeHoe]

Alacrity has value for dps now. But yes, they do seem to have gone out of their way to have the initial equipment you buy have all the secondary stats (ex. Crit) that you don't want.

 

Yes it does but you have to have such a high rating for it to acutely be good the ALC you get from talents are more than enough. Also too i just Finlay got my 2 set bonus last night to stack them and the frist 5 TM i cast DID NOT CRIT so idk if it does stack or it was just really ****** DPS but i did about a hour of testing with the stacked set and old 4 set bosuns and honestly i did more dps and had 10 times better heat management with the old set bonus i even changed my rotation of taking out Explosive Dart and Electro Net when stacking the bonus sets and it so F-ing bad for Heat

 

SO OLD 4 SET BONUS ALL THE WAY

[Aerro]

Yes it does but you have to have such a high rating for it to acutely be good the ALC you get from talents are more than enough. Also too i just Finlay got my 2 set bonus last night to stack them and the frist 5 TM i cast DID NOT CRIT so idk if it does stack or it was just really ****** DPS but i did about a hour of testing with the stacked set and old 4 set bosuns and honestly i did more dps and had 10 times better heat management with the old set bonus i even changed my rotation of taking out Explosive Dart and Electro Net when stacking the bonus sets and it so F-ing bad for Heat

 

SO OLD 4 SET BONUS ALL THE WAY

 

Heat Management shouldn't be based around Railshot. If you're not using Rapid Shots you are doing it wrong. The 2pc bonuses do stack, but thats just to hold you off until you can get 4pc. Yes, the old 4pc would be preferred but if you resort to using that instead of the new gear then you are going to lose too much aim for the old 4pc to make up for it. Its just making a 10 heat ability cost 2. Thats not a huge difference. You can easily counter that with rapid shots. Not only that, but its less heat than Tracer Missile... you use Tracer Missile without complaints, why can't you use an ability that crits higher and costs less?

 

Its clear you aren't using Rapid Shots as optimally as possible seeing as you even toko Electro Net out of your rotation (not sure why Explosive Dart is in it unless you're moving).

 

1 Hour of testing something doesn't produce enough results to formulate a valid opinion.

 

 

 

 

-Also I will add that any Alacrity extra is bad. Even if you stacked Alacrity to have Tracer Missile casting at .5s, it would be an astronomical DPS loss. Why? Because your heat management will be horrible. You'll have a lot more downtime. Throwing out 5 tracers in 2.5sec isn't better than what we do now because you'll still have to wait since your heat dissipation will not even be close to your heat spent.

[BigjoeHoe]

Heat Management shouldn't be based around Railshot. If you're not using Rapid Shots you are doing it wrong. The 2pc bonuses do stack, but thats just to hold you off until you can get 4pc. Yes, the old 4pc would be preferred but if you resort to using that instead of the new gear then you are going to lose too much aim for the old 4pc to make up for it. Its just making a 10 heat ability cost 2. Thats not a huge difference. You can easily counter that with rapid shots. Not only that, but its less heat than Tracer Missile... you use Tracer Missile without complaints, why can't you use an ability that crits higher and costs less?

 

Its clear you aren't using Rapid Shots as optimally as possible seeing as you even toko Electro Net out of your rotation (not sure why Explosive Dart is in it unless you're moving).

 

1 Hour of testing something doesn't produce enough results to formulate a valid opinion.

 

 

 

 

-Also I will add that any Alacrity extra is bad. Even if you stacked Alacrity to have Tracer Missile casting at .5s, it would be an astronomical DPS loss. Why? Because your heat management will be horrible. You'll have a lot more downtime. Throwing out 5 tracers in 2.5sec isn't better than what we do now because you'll still have to wait since your heat dissipation will not even be close to your heat spent.

 

 

Im still gonna be running the 4 Set bonus until i can get the new 4 set and try that out i came up with a good rotation that keeps heat good and keeps dps the numbers where So close that its more worth it to keep the Old 4 set until you get the set bonus. Theres such a huge room for error without the Dread Guard bonus set that if you **** up you sitting there Rapid shooting you dick off, and that one reason alone is not worth it, and there's no reason at all not to use Explosive Dart any good Merc knows to use that as a filler waiting for that split second for Unload to come of CD insted of Rapid Shooting So you get a Unload then TM and then get another you just gotta know how to use it, but now without the Dread Guard set you cant do that at all, and for other people reading this post other than Aerro ,(complain about what i do even though i don't ***** at him and his rotation) i will make a updated Rotation on video on how to keep Heat down and DPS up with with the new 4 set, since having BIS 4 Set will be better and ill be updating if you wanna stack some crit you'd be surprised how much a few % can make a difference, i use to beleave in power on 1.7 and then i tested out higher crits around 39% and no dps Merc ever came close to me on meters so if Stacking 175 Rating will give you 4-5% there's no reason not to get that extra crit with such a small rating.

[odawgg]

Im still gonna be running the 4 Set bonus until i can get the new 4 set and try that out i came up with a good rotation that keeps heat good and keeps dps the numbers where So close that its more worth it to keep the Old 4 set until you get the set bonus. Theres such a huge room for error without the Dread Guard bonus set that if you **** up you sitting there Rapid shooting you dick off, and that one reason alone is not worth it, and there's no reason at all not to use Explosive Dart any good Merc knows to use that as a filler waiting for that split second for Unload to come of CD insted of Rapid Shooting So you get a Unload then TM and then get another you just gotta know how to use it, but now without the Dread Guard set you cant do that at all, and for other people reading this post other than Aerro ,(complain about what i do even though i don't ***** at him and his rotation) i will make a updated Rotation on video on how to keep Heat down and DPS up with with the new 4 set, since having BIS 4 Set will be better and ill be updating if you wanna stack some crit you'd be surprised how much a few % can make a difference, i use to beleave in power on 1.7 and then i tested out higher crits around 39% and no dps Merc ever came close to me on meters so if Stacking 175 Rating will give you 4-5% there's no reason not to get that extra crit with such a small rating.

 

Hrm, couple things I'll comment on here. First, 2pc DG/2pc UW is better than the 4pc UW by about 1%. And that's just talking about hitting a dummy where no target switching is involved, this variance increases with more target switching in favor of 2pc/2pc. The 4pc UW is "barely" if any better than the 4pc DG, even with more mainstat. Leaving really no reason to go with the 4pc UW, you're just shooting yourself in the foot cuz you're getting less than the 2pc/2pc and having to deal with more difficult heat mgmt than 4pc DG.

 

2ndly, adding some crit isn't going to hurt you too much from what I've seen in my testing, I think your potential peak dps will actually go up, so if you're looking to potentially top a thread keeping track of top parses, would be worth looking into, but if you're going for highest "average" sustained dps, I believe an all power build is actually the way to go. Don't quote me on that, but my initial theorycrafting along with Keren beta testing his simulator, all power has come on top for average dps.

 

3rd. I don't see the value in using explosive dart as any kind of filler (with the exception of having nearby mobs that would be hit by it). It costs the same amount of heat as Tracer Missile, doesn't hit as hard as it, and the GCD of Explosive dart is roughly equal to the cast time of TM; at least close enough where it doesn't make up for the damage output. That goes for Rocket Punch as well (only brought this up cuz i saw it in your video).

 

Not knocking you by any means, just my 2 cents on the subject....a good merc can put up good numbers either way, just talking about a few dps here and there.

 

Edit: Definitely need electro net in the rotation...huge hitting ability that costs only 8 heat. Very nice burst damage over 9s. I should also mention, which has already been stated....when switching to either of the new set bonuses, more rapid shots are needed. This DOESN'T result in DPS loss, because it's offset by the gains from the new set bonus options.

 

Edit: But again I'm in agreement I'd like to see the old set bonus. But, If BW decides to take away the 2pc/2pc, they would need to add in the rail shot 8% bonus somewhere, like the pyro tree perhaps. Cuz the 2pc/2pc is even better for Pyro right now, the old set bonus is more or less pointless for pyro other than the opener or the rare occasion rail shot is off cd before it's proc'd for free cost.

Edited April 27, 2013 by odawgg

[Aerro]

Deleted. Not worth the effort to respond.

 

 

Most things were summed up here:

 

Don't use Explosive Dart as a 'filler'. That is what Tracer Missile is for.

 

I don't even know why Rocket Punch was even in there...?

 

Use HSM on cooldown. Don't miss a Barrage proc. That is what the queuing system is for.

 

Use Electro Net. Its amazing damage and should never be ignored.

 

Use Rapid Shots. It does decent enough damage to not be a DPS loss- but gains from other areas is what keeps the numbers up.

 

Listen to other people- knowledge is a group effort- you don't know everything.

 

Old 4PC isn't worth it with new 2pc/2pc. You can't go new 4PC, provides no DPS increase over 2pc/2pc, but if 2/2 is changed I will most likely just stick with the new 4pc and mess around with it, as it isn't a DPS loss compared to the old version.

 

Don't gear Crit. Its a fun idea to mess around with it on a sim just to experiment, but RNG is a *****. Power provides better sustained DPS, and isn't luck based. Its static.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Aerro

[BigjoeHoe]

Deleted. Not worth the effort to respond.

 

 

Most things were summed up here:

 

Don't use Explosive Dart as a 'filler'. That is what Tracer Missile is for.

 

I don't even know why Rocket Punch was even in there...?

 

Use HSM on cooldown. Don't miss a Barrage proc. That is what the queuing system is for.

 

Use Electro Net. Its amazing damage and should never be ignored.

 

Use Rapid Shots. It does decent enough damage to not be a DPS loss- but gains from other areas is what keeps the numbers up.

 

Listen to other people- knowledge is a group effort- you don't know everything.

 

Old 4PC isn't worth it with new 2pc/2pc. You can't go new 4PC, provides no DPS increase over 2pc/2pc, but if 2/2 is changed I will most likely just stick with the new 4pc and mess around with it, as it isn't a DPS loss compared to the old version.

 

Don't gear Crit. Its a fun idea to mess around with it on a sim just to experiment, but RNG is a *****. Power provides better sustained DPS, and isn't luck based. Its static.

 

"Listen to other people- knowledge is a group effort- you don't know everything."

 

That right there makes you a pretty big hypocrite, and thing i ever said you've gone against just be a big man here and ****.

 

And you use Explosive dart when moving and need some dps when moving outa AoEs and when your half a second away from Unload or HSM to come off CD its fast than casting a TM. and when your in Melee range its better to switch Dart for RP, So stop going around like your hot stuff because your not i would call you a good play if you were only half a man, you don't deserve and kinda of tittle due to the sole reason because your a close minded fool.

[BigjoeHoe]

Oh and rember when you said people were muting me because i was being frustration i would take a look at yourself.

[odawgg]

And you use Explosive dart when moving and need some dps when moving outa AoEs and when your half a second away from Unload or HSM to come off CD its fast than casting a TM. and when your in Melee range its better to switch Dart for RP

 

I think you'd be surprised if you analyze your logs. Check the time in between casts of Explosive Dart/Rocket Punch and whatever the next ability is...then compare that to the cast time of Tracer missile....you might find it's like .1 seconds difference. I just discovered recently how similar the GCD of instant abilities and the cast time of Tracer Missile really are, cuz I thought the same as you until I looked into it further.

 

Definitely should use them on the move though, if you don't have Power Surge up.

Edited May 6, 2013 by odawgg

[TeH-DeVa]

I don't have ANY heat problems and I never did pre-2.0 without the 4 piece easy. It's almost a joke why you would ever have heat problems as arsenal and I've never used rapid shots.

 

Maybe you guys use pyro?

 

I do know a lot of people ingame who pre-2.0 would use 3 tracer missles in a row and it wouuld screw them for the entire fight if they didnt have the 4 piece but I never did that so it didn't matter to me. But post-2.0 you'd have to be pretty stupid to ever use 3 tracer missles in a row lol.

[yoomazir]

Don't change the set bonuses, heat management is super easily done as an Arsenal Merc, and for those that QQ I say L2P.

[odawgg]

I've never used rapid shots..

 

Your post was awfully opinionated for someone who clearly needs to L2P. The above statement proves that. Show me a legitimate competitive parse that doesn't use rapid shots and make me swallow my words. I dare you

 

Edit: I agree heat management is easy though....when you use rapid shots. It's literally impossible to spam heat costing abilities without using rapid shots. Unless you're delaying between actions...which results in an overall dps loss

Edited May 7, 2013 by odawgg

[Aerro]

"Listen to other people- knowledge is a group effort- you don't know everything."

 

That right there makes you a pretty big hypocrite, and thing i ever said you've gone against just be a big man here and ****.

 

And you use Explosive dart when moving and need some dps when moving outa AoEs and when your half a second away from Unload or HSM to come off CD its fast than casting a TM. and when your in Melee range its better to switch Dart for RP, So stop going around like your hot stuff because your not i would call you a good play if you were only half a man, you don't deserve and kinda of tittle due to the sole reason because your a close minded fool.

 

Please keep this stuff off the forums.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Aerro

[BigjoeHoe]

Please keep this stuff off the forums.

 

Please keep people like this off the forums.

[odawgg]

Please keep people like this off the forums.

 

are you finished with your two's hissy fit yet? haha...i have two comments unreplied to, but if you don't have an interest in a meaningful convo I'll go ahead and unsub to the thread, no worries