Macetheace Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 might it be a big mistake putting all the attractive vanity rewards in the cartel market. Rather than putting some very prominent Ops/Zone only specific items for subscribers only? It is certain that the stuff you're bringing out for cartel markets is highly popular (elitist snubs aside) and people love the cool looking stuff - by the time you go on to add things like extra facial hair styles, armor paint kits, character customisations, instant wardrobe change in a flashy futuristic kit changing kolto tank.. You are getting the bulk of the most attractive items on the cartel market ..where is my incentive to switch from F2P to sub? As free play it's cool i can get some extra stuff and may need to pump money into CM to get stuff, but what are the new incentives to switch to a subscription model? Yes, it's good business that subs have an interest in going into the cartel market, but may i point out that the game needs to be content heavy, feature heavy on the subscriber front. if you slack on development for the main game and take all vanity incentives to a cartel market where you are able to buy all full sub features, where is my incentive. worse of all is if there is no new incentive to subscribe, or no new incentive to buy the game, join the game and subscribe to it. Subscribers need new features, exciting things that will make this the best MMO about, you keep them happy, htey provide the main attraction for non-subscribers to subscribe, therefore shoudln't the development philosophy primarily be geared towards them and wouldn't it make sense to send some really attractive things sub only way?
CosmicKat Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 They have largely abandoned the subscription model. Do not expect any love to come the way of the subscribers as the F2P, cartel pack buying minions have inherited the game now.
cidbahamut Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 (edited) Your incentive to sub is to undo the kneecapping this game receives under Preferred/F2P status. I agree with the notion that cool looking gear needs to be available from more than just the Cartel. Edited April 5, 2013 by cidbahamut
chuixupu Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 There are speeders, pets, and gear that you can only get through operation drops, some from the harder difficulty modes only.
SentinelDranoel Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 There are speeders, pets, and gear that you can only get through operation drops, some from the harder difficulty modes only. ^ exactly. That is more than enough. No reason to have a lot of exclusive items in content the majority of the playerbase does not participate anyway. The Cartel Market and the GTN seems to be the best way so far.
Alec_Fortescue Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 The only thing I am subbed for is the credit cap. :l OPS needs a nice gear.
Macetheace Posted April 5, 2013 Author Posted April 5, 2013 (edited) There are speeders, pets, and gear that you can only get through operation drops, some from the harder difficulty modes only. yes.. added like a year ago. but we see cartel get new stuff nearly every other week tho..cna you not see the market is becoming far more attractive than the actual game? which is bad, becuase if the attraction of doing Ops like the rewards etc loses it's attraction or its attraction gets diminished, the whole thing will fall apart and soon there'd be no one to impress with your vanity items. why bother to get great pvp gear if you're look exactly like everyone else who has no skill, and your stuff is only slightly better. Why get all thise really high level end game gear? the content is accessible by EVERYONE, everyone sees the quest, and your model skins are reused by everyone. Plus what can I benefit from buffing up myself so much? Why not introduce PvE challenges? So, yeah, get extra credits, extra rep rewards, extra commendations for completing that 2- man heroic phase or 4-man heroic phase with just one person or two people? Beat the challenge by yourself under x mins. for hte 4 man, beat the challenge using only 2 players (+companions) in under y mins. In fact beat it in a certain period of time, you get a bonus boss inPvE that will only drop X. But only subscribers can unlock the bonus boss. I'm saying there needs to be more incentive for getting stuff out of Ops/flsahpoints and subscriber only features. That work even better. but obviously not just handed to you.. you got to go for those Ops, so you have to play more, you ahve to devleop your gear. What about also allowing some benefits for doing high end stuff flow onto your alts? for e.g. got full Arkanian or Dread guard gear? now you can pass the set bonus onto your alt who will receive his classes equivalent of the set bonus without having to collect the set specific gear OR now you can at least get your alt to wear his classes equivalent of the dread guard or Arkanian gear. Another example, reach ranking 2000? you have access to certain style of gear, but your alts do. The best designs, and the coolest designs should be the highest level rewards for completing stuff is what i'm saying Edited April 5, 2013 by Macetheace
Vandicus Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 yes.. added like a year ago. Every Ops thus far released comes with new rare cosmetic stuff. Not sure what you're complaining about, or why you're trying to claim that they aren't being released with new rare cosmetic stuff.
Macetheace Posted April 5, 2013 Author Posted April 5, 2013 Every Ops thus far released comes with new rare cosmetic stuff. Not sure what you're complaining about, or why you're trying to claim that they aren't being released with new rare cosmetic stuff. because I really haven't seen, the impact isn't that great, and it is swamped by cartel fancies. Saying: "look, who needs to sub or who needs to play where all the cool new looking stuff you can get for coins anyway." For a change, maybe that Derelict purple crystal, and balck-white crystal should ahve only been drops in TFB hard mode and EC NiM and fairly rare.
Vandicus Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 because I really haven't seen, the impact isn't that great, and it is swamped by cartel fancies. Saying: "look, who needs to sub or who needs to play where all the cool new looking stuff you can get for coins anyway." For a change, maybe that Derelict purple crystal, and balck-white crystal should ahve only been drops in TFB hard mode and EC NiM and fairly rare. I think I'd prefer they stick to the speeders and pets. You really think people would prefer color crystals to tanks?
CosmicKat Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 Every Ops thus far released comes with new rare cosmetic stuff. Not sure what you're complaining about, or why you're trying to claim that they aren't being released with new rare cosmetic stuff. If half the CM goodies were available as rewards or random drops for subscribers... or using the social point mechanic that has pretty much been abandoned... or made as craftable items for subscribers... or however you want to incorporate them... they would still sell their precious packs for the other CM stuff, and they would be giving reasons for people to subscribe. That must make too much sense though.
grombrinda Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 If half the CM goodies were available as rewards or random drops for subscribers... or using the social point mechanic that has pretty much been abandoned... or made as craftable items for subscribers... or however you want to incorporate them... they would still sell their precious packs for the other CM stuff, and they would be giving reasons for people to subscribe. That must make too much sense though. Couldn't agree more. ^^
Vandicus Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 If half the CM goodies were available as rewards or random drops for subscribers... or using the social point mechanic that has pretty much been abandoned... or made as craftable items for subscribers... or however you want to incorporate them... they would still sell their precious packs for the other CM stuff, and they would be giving reasons for people to subscribe. That must make too much sense though. This seems off-topic, but what exactly are you trying to say? The reason to subscribe should be cosmetic items?
BrianDavion Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 yes.. added like a year ago. but we see cartel get new stuff nearly every other week tho..cna you not see the market is becoming far more attractive than the actual game? which is bad, becuase if the attraction of doing Ops like the rewards etc loses it's attraction or its attraction gets diminished, the whole thing will fall apart and soon there'd be no one to impress with your vanity items. why bother to get great pvp gear if you're look exactly like everyone else who has no skill, and your stuff is only slightly better. Why get all thise really high level end game gear? the content is accessible by EVERYONE, everyone sees the quest, and your model skins are reused by everyone. Plus what can I benefit from buffing up myself so much? Why not introduce PvE challenges? So, yeah, get extra credits, extra rep rewards, extra commendations for completing that 2- man heroic phase or 4-man heroic phase with just one person or two people? Beat the challenge by yourself under x mins. for hte 4 man, beat the challenge using only 2 players (+companions) in under y mins. In fact beat it in a certain period of time, you get a bonus boss inPvE that will only drop X. But only subscribers can unlock the bonus boss. I'm saying there needs to be more incentive for getting stuff out of Ops/flsahpoints and subscriber only features. That work even better. but obviously not just handed to you.. you got to go for those Ops, so you have to play more, you ahve to devleop your gear. What about also allowing some benefits for doing high end stuff flow onto your alts? for e.g. got full Arkanian or Dread guard gear? now you can pass the set bonus onto your alt who will receive his classes equivalent of the set bonus without having to collect the set specific gear OR now you can at least get your alt to wear his classes equivalent of the dread guard or Arkanian gear. Another example, reach ranking 2000? you have access to certain style of gear, but your alts do. The best designs, and the coolest designs should be the highest level rewards for completing stuff is what i'm saying BW doesn't want to reward us for doing content with less people. section X is clear evidance of that
CosmicKat Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 This seems off-topic, but what exactly are you trying to say? The reason to subscribe should be cosmetic items? I care about cosmetic items way more than I do about PvP or endgame raiding. For myself, yes... cosmetic fluff is a huge draw for my subscription money. It`s a huge annoyance when it`s only available at what I think are exorbitant prices.
Vandicus Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 I care about cosmetic items way more than I do about PvP or endgame raiding. For myself, yes... cosmetic fluff is a huge draw for my subscription money. It`s a huge annoyance when it`s only available at what I think are exorbitant prices. Should be plenty of stuff with 2.0. From what I've heard, the armormech/synthweaving and artifice/armstech additions are cosmetic, and there should be a couple new cosmetic sets attached to new rep, not to mention whatever oranges that might drop on Makeb. Subscribing is aimed at end-game however(and moreover weekly passes are generally affordable even with the preferred credit cap), so if end-game isn't a major focus for you, maybe you'd be better off f2p?
Dink Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 Replace "Ops" with "Game" and I'll agree (not all subbers participate in endgame operations, simply adding things into the game that doesn't require use of the CM would be fine...and welcome by most I'd imagine).
CosmicKat Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 Replace "Ops" with "Game" and I'll agree (not all subbers participate in endgame operations, simply adding things into the game that doesn't require use of the CM would be fine...and welcome by most I'd imagine). Alright, he put it better. Couldn`t agree more.
ZORG Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 ^ exactly. That is more than enough. No reason to have a lot of exclusive items in content the majority of the playerbase does not participate anyway. The Cartel Market and the GTN seems to be the best way so far. Yeah but to have some incentive to lure folks into the OPS by having some items exclusive to the OPS that would be coveted by F2Prs is a good thing. I also think OPS are for the most part a guild activity. Sure some ops like EV and KP can be pugged but with out rules that all respect its just a pain for me to do OPS outside a guild structure. I will say if the devs don't dedicate just as much loot and content for the subscription players as much as they are for the cartel market I will be rethinking my Subscription.
JimG Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 might it be a big mistake putting all the attractive vanity rewards in the cartel market. Rather than putting some very prominent Ops/Zone only specific items for subscribers only? ...... Yes, it's good business that subs have an interest in going into the cartel market, but may i point out that the game needs to be content heavy, feature heavy on the subscriber front. if you slack on development for the main game and take all vanity incentives to a cartel market where you are able to buy all full sub features, where is my incentive. People are generally running Ops to get better quality gear....not vanity items. The Cartel Market is exactly the place for vanity items, while in-game accomplishments is generally the place for more powerful gear/loot. Also, it's a little ironic that you're talking about slacking on development for the main game 5 days before Update 2.0 launches and the pre-order access for ROTHC.
SlimsPicken Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 People are generally running Ops to get better quality gear....not vanity items. The Cartel Market is exactly the place for vanity items, while in-game accomplishments is generally the place for more powerful gear/loot. Also, it's a little ironic that you're talking about slacking on development for the main game 5 days before Update 2.0 launches and the pre-order access for ROTHC. this. If I run OPs its for the mods...not the shells. I could care less if its a clown suit. The cartel market (and thus the GTN for sellers) is precisely the place for "look at me!" gear. I wouldnt mind, however, if they didnt take my clown suit words so literally...
Elear Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 I wanted to create similar thread after seeing how (or maybe 'if') Makeb is lacking this kind of stuff, but there it is now. I agree with main though of thread - too many of fun items are CM only, not appearing in other parts of game in order to not decrease CM sales. It does not have to be restricted to subscibers. As subscriber, you get easier time getting activity-related rewards. Problem is, there are no such rewards. Look at Reputation system. Voss got almost nothing(medicore recolor), space also got recolor and headpiece already avaible to some players. Look at Space itself - all different kinds of spaceship models would be perfect reward for space combat - one we will never see, since that could reduce CM sales. Random pets - so far we get much less of them than before decision to go F2P was made. Crafting? Psh... all shell crafting almost died with CM. Artifice didn't recieve unique crystal in ages. Speeders from cybertech never were too awesome, now with plenty of CM speeders they get almost worthless. I really want to hold back to Makeb and see what it really has to offer before making final statements about game direction, but as it's now, all "side" rewards from activities dissapeared, and all "fluff" was moved almost entirely to CM, and that eliminates really important piece of MMO from this game. Obviously, some people will go "you can farm credits and buy it all on GTN". Sure, that is true. But this changes main element of Massive (multiplayer online) Game "do different stuff and get different rewards" into boring "farm credits all day, buy yourself a reward". And if you don't see difference between buying spaceship model for 500 fleet comms and buying it for 500k credits, then there is nothing to discuss with you.
LeonBraun Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 (edited) Here's the thing about gear and raiding... Serious end game raiders get gear to raid, they don't raid to get gear. The rewards for raiding are killing bosses, not acquiring gear. The gear that raiders use is simply a tool to progress. That's it. Really when you take the cosmetic gear out of the equation, what you end up with is raiders who raid because they love to raid, not because they want to walk around in pretty gear. And really, veteran raiders just want to raid with other raiders who are in it 'cause they enjoy raiding. EDIT: Aside from that, I do have to agree with the previous poster that the Cartel Market has really hurt cosmetic crafting. Hopefully RotHC with come with a few nice end cap designs for some nice craftables. Edited April 5, 2013 by LeonBraun
Macetheace Posted April 5, 2013 Author Posted April 5, 2013 People are generally running Ops to get better quality gear....not vanity items. The Cartel Market is exactly the place for vanity items, while in-game accomplishments is generally the place for more powerful gear/loot. Also, it's a little ironic that you're talking about slacking on development for the main game 5 days before Update 2.0 launches and the pre-order access for ROTHC. it is ironic isn't it. But what i was getting at, was the focus balance. Someone else pointed out that yes Ops do have unique mounts/pets etc - but tbh, nothing that drops in Ops is as nice as stuff that comes in the cartel market. it's really great i have access to some really nice stuff in an easeir manner than doing Ops or rated battlegrounds, but putting too much focus on that and not pumping more nice stuff into Ops rewards or making the gap too small, may make it not seem worhtwhile please look at the post I followed that one up with, I was trying to give incentives that will encourage players to do more Ops, rated warzones and thus subscribe more. You get high quality gear from Ops right? what's the point of getting that gear? to feel powerful? to look really cool? to do greater challenges? i'm saying look at ways on making getting the highest rewards and the highest achievements even more useful - highest tier sets, having a very unique look for example, - and yes, and restrict certain items , like colour crystals, gear shapes etc, cool stuff exclusively to the highest tiers. meh, i'm repeating myself, I gave suggestion of what incentives would be attractive, but I'm kinda just wondering, for me I would want more than just bragging rights (i.e. achievement - that I had done blah) - if going to Scum and Villany NiM was the only way to get that really really coool hover chair and the teribly rare white crystal then sheesh i'd do it How about - they do a HM mode reputation: and you can get some unique vanity items access after reaching certain ranks. You gain repuation by defeating bosses in the HM scumand villany - and there is an exclusive set you and your alts can all buy, incl some exclusive mounts. The same for pvp warzones The same for space combat (funnily enough, this exists for space combat)
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