Introduce vote to kick player from War Zone group like any pve group.

[Kaerwolf]

I don't think anyone has been able to avoid noticing how completely ****ed up War Zones have become over the past month. I mean, there has always been the debate about all kinds of things in regards to players, gear and what not, but it has become extremely bad lately. It is at the level where it has seized to be fun even to try and get the weekly pvp mission done, at least if you play more than one toon. There are just too many who act like jerks and do all the wrong things etc, deliberately or from lack of knowledge is debatable.

 

Bioware, you should take this problem seriously because in the end this is what makes people leave games. Try treating pve players the same way you treat War Zone players by removing the option to remove players from the ops group and you'll see.

 

An alternative I don't see coming in the near future would be to mimic the pve ops and introduce SM War Zones and HM WZs, where SM WZ would be recruit gear and serve as introduction to lvl 50 WZs. This would be on top of the sub 50 WZs. Even so, in both SM and HM pve ops you can vote to kick players who don't behave properly.

 

There are a lot of other changes I'd like to see to War Zones such as nerfing abilities used together with stealth, such as speed/sprint and incapacitating abilities. But if I could get one wish, it would be the ability to kick misbehaving people instead of being forced to leave myself. Never made sense to me why I should be punished because somone else wants to be a jerk by coming undressed or just acting stupidly.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Kaerwolf

[theUndead]

What exactly do you deem as well dressed for WZ's? Also could you elaborate a bit more on what you deem as "stupid"? I don't mean to come off in a negative way but you see I see lot's of threads of players complaining about pvp bad behavior and some people say they are annoyed when people don't call incs or go for objectives etc. Are you referring to that or a different issue altogether.

 

Yet I must say WZ's for me are filled with bad players and good players but I have accepted that is just the luck of the trade really. And when their are douchebags or abusive players I just ignore because to me even if a team is bad I will stay because I get to see how well or badly I did and continue to improve.

[Amyas]

The ques are already to long. What is the point in gear grinding if everyone has the same teir.

[Aries_cz]

Well, it is infuriating to see people in level 50 WZs in green/blue gear they just leveled with, not even bothering to put on the FREE Recruit gear.

 

However, 2.0 seems to be getting rid of this need by introducing reworked Bolster mechanics

[Kaerwolf]

Well, it is infuriating to see people in level 50 WZs in green/blue gear they just leveled with, not even bothering to put on the FREE Recruit gear.

 

However, 2.0 seems to be getting rid of this need by introducing reworked Bolster mechanics

 

Not sure what this new bolster mechanics will imply so I can not comment on that. I hope it is a significant improvement that deals with the current problem.

 

Which leads me back to explaining it further as per request:

What exactly do you deem as well dressed for WZ's? Also could you elaborate a bit more on what you deem as "stupid"? I don't mean to come off in a negative way but you see I see lot's of threads of players complaining about pvp bad behavior and some people say they are annoyed when people don't call incs or go for objectives etc. Are you referring to that or a different issue altogether.

 

Yet I must say WZ's for me are filled with bad players and good players but I have accepted that is just the luck of the trade really. And when their are douchebags or abusive players I just ignore because to me even if a team is bad I will stay because I get to see how well or badly I did and continue to improve.

 

Well dressed for WZs is coming dressed for the equation, which in this case means wearing at least your free pvp recruit gear(which will be something else in 2.0). Had WZs worked under the same system PVE ops work with SM and HM options, the WH and EWH gear would have also worked as definers for correct gear for respective type of missions, wearing at least full WH and some EWH items when joining a HM WZ for example, just like you wear at least columni set in a HM operation etc.

 

As for stupid, I mean players who do all the wrong things in a WZ which makes sure your side will lose. Fighing at all the wrong places, breaking CCs when someone is trying to cap a turret/plant a bomb or whatever. Not stunning or in other way disable a player from interrupting the guy capping for your team and such things. That is all examples of stupid behaviour in a WZ, comparable with a dps running around aggroing everything, stealing aggro from the tank in every fight and refusing to listen, eventually the group will vote to kick him. Or a tank not using taunts and picking up adds who then can roam free killing the healers and dps and in the end the whole group and an expensive wipe as a result thereof. That kind of tank also gets removed fom an operations group or flashpoint group. Not calling incomings is also stupid behavior in a WZ, unless the player is sure he wil be able to defend it on his own and is in no need of assistance(rarely the case, hence you shall always call incoming and if you are good enough to handle yourself, that player has also learnt to call incoming already so not an issue really).

 

Everyone has his/her limits as to how much misbehaviour they can put up with. I've never done the ranked premade team WZs and I've been ok with various levels of skill in random war zone groups, but it has become unbearable lately because of too many who just refuse to follow instructions and don't know anything about what to do in war zones, or they do and misbehave out of pure spite just because they enjoy watching competitive players get fed up after X number of matches paired with almost the same people. Up until about a month ago you could enter war zones randomly and you would lose some and win some, now you can easily play 10 losing games in a row before you end up in a group that plays for real and know the tactics and conditions for the war zone in question. That is not ok even if it is technically still "lose some, win some". Everyone does not have time to spend all the time needed to get 9 wins for the weekly under these conditions, which is why I suggested a change to the current. Again, as mentioned in the post above the WZ system is about to get changed a bit and I am not sure exactly how so I can't ay anything about it yet, but the option to make WZ groups similar to PVE groups with the option to kick players should not be a problem either way.

[Bomyne]

No. It's being abused in PvE, why should it be added to PvP

[Kaerwolf]

Abused in pve? How, explain how it is abused in pve because I have only been kicked once in pve. (and that time it was in a loser group with a tank that could not tank and everyone but I was undergeared and the leader who voted to kick me as healer did not even see that I was not the problem, so I doubt they ever got it done while I joined a new group and cleared it without incidents.)

[danielearley]

Abused in pve? How, explain how it is abused in pve because I have only been kicked once in pve. (and that time it was in a loser group with a tank that could not tank and everyone but I was undergeared and the leader who voted to kick me as healer did not even see that I was not the problem, so I doubt they ever got it done while I joined a new group and cleared it without incidents.)

 

erm by your post, it was abused then! Although judging by this they may of been justified!

[Kaerwolf]

You wield poor arguments for your cause.

 

Occasional cases of abuse is unavoidable, so your statement becomes void per your definition of this being occasional appearance(s).

Edited April 7, 2013 by Kaerwolf

[Jossajus]

Abused in pve? How, explain how it is abused in pve because I have only been kicked once in pve. (and that time it was in a loser group with a tank that could not tank and everyone but I was undergeared and the leader who voted to kick me as healer did not even see that I was not the problem, so I doubt they ever got it done while I joined a new group and cleared it without incidents.)

 

Define "couldn't tank." As a tank main i'm kind of curious.

[Bomyne]

You wield poor arguments for your cause.

 

Occasional cases of abuse is unavoidable, so your statement becomes void per your definition of this being occasional appearance(s).

 

This thread is also void. Vote to kick is already in warzones. It was used in one I was in yesterday to kick a player that had social gear with no mods on.

[Kaerwolf]

This thread is also void. Vote to kick is already in warzones. It was used in one I was in yesterday to kick a player that had social gear with no mods on.

 

You can cancel a vote to kick simply by being active.You can not kick players for misbehaving and not wearing the right gear. The Vote to kick in WZs only applies to players not fighting at all.

[Corellona]

This thread sound like it was started with the intent to kick people who are under geared, and it is VERY poorly defended (as has already been stated). IT is not possible to go into PVP as a shiny new 50 in Full Hero gear.

I admit SEVERAL people are not playing to their potential and by 50 they should go into a WZ knowing what to do. I also admit if they cannot follow simple instructions and help their team mates by level 50 I would like to have a boot button ready for them. ONLY for that reason, BUT I would NEVER vote for it, just because I could see it abused by elitist like you.

[theUndead]

This thread sound like it was started with the intent to kick people who are under geared, and it is VERY poorly defended (as has already been stated). IT is not possible to go into PVP as a shiny new 50 in Full Hero gear.

I admit SEVERAL people are not playing to their potential and by 50 they should go into a WZ knowing what to do. I also admit if they cannot follow simple instructions and help their team mates by level 50 I would like to have a boot button ready for them. ONLY for that reason, BUT I would NEVER vote for it, just because I could see it abused by elitist like you.

 

Look who is being elitist. The fact remains not everyone can or wants to be a part of a team and although this is frustrating to competent pvpers the reality is you cannot force what you deem as correct PVP behavior or correct PVP leadership on others. Instituting a kick function that will forcefully remove people who to you are not performing is not only selfish but it is exactly what you described as that is elitist. Saying that, I understand your frustration and I know myself I get annoyed too but I remember what it was like when I first started and I NEVER and I repeat NEVER been kicked from a WZ no matter how undergeared or inexperienced I was.

 

Also and this is my final point explain to me why a newly minted 50 can't do PVP? I mean really they have to start somewhere so why can't they just have a go and try. Yet what your proposing would allow premades to kick people they deem as a burden and to me that is unfair.

 

In the end people need to learn not have the constant fear of being kicked.

[Corellona]

Look who is being elitist. The fact remains not everyone can or wants to be a part of a team and although this is frustrating to competent pvpers the reality is you cannot force what you deem as correct PVP behavior or correct PVP leadership on others. Instituting a kick function that will forcefully remove people who to you are not performing is not only selfish but it is exactly what you described as that is elitist. Saying that, I understand your frustration and I know myself I get annoyed too but I remember what it was like when I first started and I NEVER and I repeat NEVER been kicked from a WZ no matter how undergeared or inexperienced I was.

Also and this is my final point explain to me why a newly minted 50 can't do PVP? I mean really they have to start somewhere so why can't they just have a go and try. Yet what your proposing would allow premades to kick people they deem as a burden and to me that is unfair.

In the end people need to learn not have the constant fear of being kicked.

 

 

Really, Undead, IF you want to call someone out you should take the time to carefully READ their whole POST. I did say I understood the frustration and that by 50 people should have an IDEA of what to do, but I also said I would NEVER vote for the button because it would be abused by people try to remove people that just did not have the gear and such. I mention there is NO way that any new 50 can go into a WZ in full hero and was try to explain he needed to back off and that is where my elitist comment came from.

You and I are mostly on the same page.

[theUndead]

Really, Undead, IF you want to call someone out you should take the time to carefully READ their whole POST. I did say I understood the frustration and that by 50 people should have an IDEA of what to do, but I also said I would NEVER vote for the button because it would be abused by people try to remove people that just did not have the gear and such. I mention there is NO way that any new 50 can go into a WZ in full hero and was try to explain he needed to back off and that is where my elitist comment came from.

You and I are mostly on the same page.

 

if that is the case and I misread then my apologies. But there is still something I do not understand so maybe try to explain a bit deeper. When you said no new 50 can go into a warzone with War hero why is that? Or am I missing something here? I am not trying to argue with you I just would like to understand.

[Corellona]

if that is the case and I misread then my apologies. But there is still something I do not understand so maybe try to explain a bit deeper. When you said no new 50 can go into a warzone with War hero why is that? Or am I missing something here? I am not trying to argue with you I just would like to understand.

 

Thank you Undead

 

What I said was "IT is NOT possible to go into PVP as a shiny new 50 in Full Hero gear (taken from my original message)" meaning people who have JUST become 50 will at MOST have only a few piece above recruit gear (and that is IF they know about turning in the recruit quest). They may have two regular Hero pieces at best and will need time to gear up, so it is NOT fair at all to tell them they HAVE to have gear to be in PVP.

That is why I said we are mostly on the same page

[Kaerwolf]

This thread sound like it was started with the intent to kick people who are under geared, and it is VERY poorly defended (as has already been stated). IT is not possible to go into PVP as a shiny new 50 in Full Hero gear.

I admit SEVERAL people are not playing to their potential and by 50 they should go into a WZ knowing what to do. I also admit if they cannot follow simple instructions and help their team mates by level 50 I would like to have a boot button ready for them. ONLY for that reason, BUT I would NEVER vote for it, just because I could see it abused by elitist like you.

 

This post started with the intent to be able to kick players who come to a war zone without proper knowledge nor will to learn how to play it properly. I've been telling people for ages that losing war zones is most often NOT a gear issue. Don't try to be smart by making this into something it is not.

 

edit.(do you agree with me that expertise is important for pvp? Because I do, by entering a 50 wz wearing pve armor without expertise mods, you destroy for the team and since recruit(no longer an option in 2.0) was free, it was the least to be expected from even rookie 50s, I myself ran all weeklies in 4½ hours in recruit when I turned 50, all random pugs. Recently in the midst of mayhem did not make it in that time, but got the weekly done in less than a week all in recruit with a fresh 50 toon. ) So stop making this into a War Hero or not issue, it is not.

 

And people conveniently choose to ignore the other side of my first post: IT IS AN OPTION IN REGULAR PVE FP/OPS, which by the way take a whole lot longer to do. The devs seem ok with having the option there, so why not in pvp as well? All I ask for is equal possibilities.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Kaerwolf