Dps Scoundrel viable again in 2.0 ?

[Harkess]

Im not on pts but i used to play a dps scoundrel before it got nerf to the ground and i abandoned the class in 1.2. But since then i've been longing to get back to my fav class and start to truly enjoy the game again (i've been playing vanguard since then because its so powerful and overly simple to play).

 

My question is ofc is dps scoundrel finally be viable again? im talking mainly about pvp but wouldnt hurt to be viable in pve as well as i do raid once in a while.

 

im not asking to be THE most powerful class in the game, only want a fighting chance against others or do we once again get hosed and shoehorned into being a healer......

Edited April 6, 2013 by Harkess
Better formulate the thread as it has stirred up quite a lot of confusing and angry discussions.

[sentawan]

From the posts I've read on 2.0 parses, most of the advanced classes are very similar to each other (cept shadow spec [is too low] and hybrid vanguard [which I believed was nerfed from doing way too much dps on pts]) in one on one dps dummy parses.

[Belly]

Im not on pts but i used to play a dps scoundrel before it got nerf to the ground and i abandoned the class in 1.2. But since then i've been longing to get back to my fav class and start to truly enjoy the game again (i've been playing vanguard since then because its so powerful and overly simple to play). My question is ofc is dps scoundrel finally be viable again? im talking mainly about pvp but wouldnt hurt to be viable in pve as well.

im not asking to be THE most powerful class in the game, only want a fighting chance against others or do we once again get hosed and shoehorned into being a healer......

 

Smash can do 6k damage pretty regularly but god forbid scoundrel doing anywhere near

 

The new skill, scamper, feels like it will be a great boost to our mobility, one of the biggest problems. Energy management seems to be better as well. We'll still be squishy of course, but that's to be expected.

[Godlymuppet]

In PVP, scoundrel Dps has always been viable. It's a different roll than pyro. A thinkers roll. But the fact you dropped it to go pyro sounds like you still won't like it. Maybe you should go gunslinger since that is the ac for getting in the thick of the action (well from the sidelines). Scrapper will never be for mass group fights. Node defender and ninja capper or maybe healer assasination, but that's it.

 

It's never going to be Faceroll easy. Even if 2.0 makes it a bit more user friendly.

[Zorash]

In PVP, scoundrel Dps has always been viable. It's a different roll than pyro. A thinkers roll. But the fact you dropped it to go pyro sounds like you still won't like it. Maybe you should go gunslinger since that is the ac for getting in the thick of the action (well from the sidelines). Scrapper will never be for mass group fights. Node defender and ninja capper or maybe healer assasination, but that's it.

 

It's never going to be Faceroll easy. Even if 2.0 makes it a bit more user friendly.

 

i don't understand why you're so rude to him. Compare the amount of pyro PTs or assult vanguards in ranked wzs to dps operatives/scoundrels and it's pretty obvious which one of the 2 classes in that environment are viable.

 

From what I read on the PTS and forums, dps operatives won't be viable in ranked wzs.

[Godlymuppet]

My point is viable is not the same as easy to play. He played it in the past but went to pyro, presumably because you can have the same effect for less effort. It's not getting a lot easier to play just a little, so pyro will still be more his style if that's why he changed.

[GHoppa]

My point is viable is not the same as easy to play. He played it in the past but went to pyro, presumably because you can have the same effect for less effort. It's not getting a lot easier to play just a little, so pyro will still be more his style if that's why he changed.

 

And the above posters point is you can have more effect in total, not just for less effort, in pyro/assault than scrapper will. Full stop. Ever.

 

Viable is when RWZ teams have trouble deciding between say a scoundrel scrapper and a gaurdian/sentinal/vangaurd/shadow/gunslinger. Atm, there is no discussion. The best teams, putting together their best chance to win, will take almost any other dps (cept commando maybe) before a scoundrel. Viable is when they do take that scoundrel.

 

Sure, you can have some fun in WZ's, pump out some good damge, have a lot of fun ninja'ing off nodes. But from a best of the best perspective, they fall short, everyone knows this. This has alot to do with the fact that in almost any situation, a DPS shadow is better. Better survivabilty, better DPS, better utility, better at gaurding nodes and ninja'ing.

[randiesel]

Im not on pts but i used to play a dps scoundrel before it got nerf to the ground and i abandoned the class in 1.2. But since then i've been longing to get back to my fav class and start to truly enjoy the game again (i've been playing vanguard since then because its so powerful and overly simple to play). My question is ofc is dps scoundrel finally be viable again? im talking mainly about pvp but wouldnt hurt to be viable in pve as well.

im not asking to be THE most powerful class in the game, only want a fighting chance against others or do we once again get hosed and shoehorned into being a healer......

 

Smash can do 6k damage pretty regularly but god forbid scoundrel doing anywhere near

 

I pull 6k+ Shoot Firsts nightly, hit 7.1k for my highest. It all depends on your gearing/mods.

 

We've always been viable for pvp, just not for rated given the masses bubble stunning and other ways we're locked down. Shadows have always been more favorable in those cases.

 

2.0 maybe will change things, but if you're good at the class then you'll always be effective.

[Ugolino]

From what I read on the PTS and forums, dps operatives won't be viable in ranked wzs.

 

Best news I've heard all week. Good riddance to them.

[randiesel]

Best news I've heard all week. Good riddance to them.

 

You're a moron.

 

Good riddance to them? Since when have you seen dps Ops in ranked pre-2.0? Good riddance was 1.2. Bad troll is bad.

[Godlymuppet]

And the above posters point is you can have more effect in total, not just for less effort, in pyro/assault than scrapper will. Full stop. Ever.

 

Viable is when RWZ teams have trouble deciding between say a scoundrel scrapper and a gaurdian/sentinal/vangaurd/shadow/gunslinger. Atm, there is no discussion. The best teams, putting together their best chance to win, will take almost any other dps (cept commando maybe) before a scoundrel. Viable is when they do take that scoundrel.

 

Sure, you can have some fun in WZ's, pump out some good damge, have a lot of fun ninja'ing off nodes. But from a best of the best perspective, they fall short, everyone knows this. This has alot to do with the fact that in almost any situation, a DPS shadow is better. Better survivabilty, better DPS, better utility, better at gaurding nodes and ninja'ing.

 

I think you need to look up what viable means, you appear to have confused its meaning with optimal. Which is kind of sad when you are trying to make a point about the meaning of the word lol.

 

Also i was quite clear that they fill different roles. So you cant really compare, Scrapper Scoundrel defends nodes and ninja caps, even in rated. Pryo is in the zerg.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Godlymuppet

[Coldin]

I pull 6k+ Shoot Firsts nightly, hit 7.1k for my highest. It all depends on your gearing/mods.

 

Calling ******** on that. Screenshot, or it hasn't happened.

[Motro]

I think you need to look up what viable means, you appear to have confused its meaning with optimal. Which is kind of sad when you are trying to make a point about the meaning of the word lol.

 

Actually, one of the definitions of viable, according to Webster, is: having a reasonable chance of succeeding. Success in this instance is determined by one's ability to acquire a spot on a team and complete content (a function of being able to join a team).

 

You were taking that definition and applying it to a team with a Scoundrel on it instead of to the Scoundrel itself. Yes, a team with a Scoundrel on it still has a reasonable, albeit diminished, chance of succeeding in its goals. Those are, however, the team's goals and success or failure is a function of group effort.

 

Scoundrels in their current state do not have a reasonable chance of succeeding in joining teams and therefore completing content. They are not viable, and much of the reason has to do with their sub-par dps and lack of utility/usefulness. That is painted all over the SWTOR forums.

 

It appears that you have confused the meaning of viable with that of "possible," which is kind of sad when you are trying to mock someone about the meaning of the word. In order for something to be viable, it must be reasonably or adequately possible.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Motro

[Godlymuppet]

Actually, one of the definitions of viable, according to Webster, is: having a reasonable chance of succeeding. Success in this instance is determined by one's ability to acquire a spot on a team and complete content (a function of being able to join a team).

 

You were taking that definition and applying it to a team with a Scoundrel on it instead of to the Scoundrel itself. Yes, a team with a Scoundrel on it still has a reasonable, albeit diminished, chance of succeeding in its goals. Those are, however, the team's goals and success or failure is a function of group effort.

 

Scoundrels in their current state do not have a reasonable chance of succeeding in joining teams and therefore completing content. They are not viable, and much of the reason has to do with their sub-par dps and lack of utility/usefulness. That is painted all over the SWTOR forums.

 

It appears that you have confused the meaning of viable with that of "possible," which is kind of sad when you are trying to mock someone about the meaning of the word. In order for something to be viable, it must be reasonably or adequately possible.

Still not there.

 

Reasonable chance to succeed is viable.

 

Best chance of success is optimal.

 

You keep going on about the best chance and claiming that is what is viable. That is what is optimal.

 

Tell me anything that can not be done with a Dps scoundrel on your team. If it can be done with one then it is viable.

 

Also the point of this thread was about 2.0. Which considering they are viable before it and they are only going to be more so after it.

 

I have often replaced a shadow (optimal node guard) in ranked when none was available. We still win, therefore it's viable if not optimal. I really don't do pve, so can't say about that. But in ranked PVP it is currently viable and will only get better in 2.0. People just need to understand its role (2nd best node guard or ninja capper).

 

The below is from your Webster's as the definition of Viable-

Synonyms achievable, attainable, doable, feasible, practicable, realizable, possible, workable

 

Is a scrapper a viable (per the above definition) node guard in ranked? (not dependant on team carrying you, its the most solo role in the game). Then the only answer is YES!!

 

I get that some people may not have like the tone I used at the OP, I was a bit rude, I know that. Essentially what I got from the op was this.

 

"I used to play scoundrel when it was overpowered, as soon as it was balanced, I dropped it like a hot potato".

 

It was still possible to do any role well with it, many of us stuck it out and can do very well with it. Allot just gave up on it, when it was viable all along. They gave up because they wanted an easy class to play. I don't really want any of the FOTM re-rollers that played it when it was overpowered, to come back to it.

 

If the op loved the play style, then why drop it in the 1st place. People need to be willing to learn how to play well, not just easily.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Godlymuppet

[JacksonMo]

I don't understand why people think only certain speces of each class are "viable".

Each is balanced to fit a different play style. It's more about HOW the person plays. When you parse out your damage/healing it makes far more difference knowing and being comfortable with you rotation than the 1 or 2% difference some min/maxing nerd claims you can do.

[Elegances]

I don't understand why people think only certain speces of each class are "viable".

Each is balanced to fit a different play style. It's more about HOW the person plays. When you parse out your damage/healing it makes far more difference knowing and being comfortable with you rotation than the 1 or 2% difference some min/maxing nerd claims you can do.

The issue is it isn't just a 1 0r 2% difference.

I mean, sure you may do "decently" but if you were playing a different class on the same skill level you would do substantialy better, and thats where the issue is.

The only way for a scoundrel/op to really succeed is to outplay the opposition, which is not exactly a solution.

[Harkess]

Guys guys lets keep this civilize shall we. ..

 

I was okay with the class when the first nerf hit, then the added cool down time to the backstab i felt its just too much and unwarranted nerf to already sub-par sustain dps the class has. I didn't abandon the class initially, the the reasons i decided to leave is after 4 or so ranked warzone matches where it occured to me how so much effort going into catching up with other classes damage wise and i totally lacked utility to be useful in huttball.

If you think i sucked and thats why i leave all i got to say to defend myself is that i used to be the best operative on my origin server (peragus mining facility).

 

At that time there was pyrotech that totally facerolling everyone on the server, so i decided if i cant beat him in my own game, i will beat him in his. So i rerolled, got to 50, get some gear and find out how easy it is and ho powerful the class is, assault specialist vanguard had everything. 30 meters range, massive burst, pretty good sustain damage. This was ofc before the range nerf, after i got full war hero stuff on both toon i kinda took a break from the game because at that time i was working my way toward a master degree and time for gaming is pretty much dwindling.

 

Now that i got back and so many patch has came out since then, nothing has change, smash are still very powerful, so is vanguard and still they have yet throw operative/scoundrel any bones (except healing)

 

What i feel about the class is my opinion ofc no need to take my word for it or insulting me. I just cant help to get my hope up for the new expansion and according to you guys it'll be the same, now with rolling. I will get my Vanguard to 55 and get gear and min maxing him then i will get around to my operative or scoundrel and see if i like the changes. And once again, i'm all for class balancing and im very against having 1 or 2 classes facerolling everybody, there's a reason a lot of people rolling a sent and a lot of them happen to be smash..

 

just my 2 cents.

[Mookind]

Operatives are never going to be the sustained DPS class you guys want, roll heals or pick a new toon damn

 

This ship sailed a year ago

[randiesel]

That's odd b/c now they have higher sustained dps in 2.0 than they did before.

 

Doesn't mean it's viable to take a dps scoundrel/operative to rated, but they do have higher sustained dps.

 

Troll?

[Godlymuppet]

Guys guys lets keep this civilize shall we. ..

 

I was okay with the class when the first nerf hit, then the added cool down time to the backstab i felt its just too much and unwarranted nerf to already sub-par sustain dps the class has. I didn't abandon the class initially, the the reasons i decided to leave is after 4 or so ranked warzone matches where it occured to me how so much effort going into catching up with other classes damage wise and i totally lacked utility to be useful in huttball.

If you think i sucked and thats why i leave all i got to say to defend myself is that i used to be the best operative on my origin server (peragus mining facility).

 

At that time there was pyrotech that totally facerolling everyone on the server, so i decided if i cant beat him in my own game, i will beat him in his. So i rerolled, got to 50, get some gear and find out how easy it is and ho powerful the class is, assault specialist vanguard had everything. 30 meters range, massive burst, pretty good sustain damage. This was ofc before the range nerf, after i got full war hero stuff on both toon i kinda took a break from the game because at that time i was working my way toward a master degree and time for gaming is pretty much dwindling.

 

Now that i got back and so many patch has came out since then, nothing has change, smash are still very powerful, so is vanguard and still they have yet throw operative/scoundrel any bones (except healing)

 

What i feel about the class is my opinion ofc no need to take my word for it or insulting me. I just cant help to get my hope up for the new expansion and according to you guys it'll be the same, now with rolling. I will get my Vanguard to 55 and get gear and min maxing him then i will get around to my operative or scoundrel and see if i like the changes. And once again, i'm all for class balancing and im very against having 1 or 2 classes facerolling everybody, there's a reason a lot of people rolling a sent and a lot of them happen to be smash..

 

just my 2 cents.

 

Well they are getting resource management sorted out, no more need to refresh pungency, which is nice. They are getting a lot of mobility. The roll is borderline overpowered if used well, this will give them much needed utility in huttball, they are going to become one of the fastest moving classes, by a mile.

 

Also we are kind of expecting an influx of snipers and gunslingers, which helps scoundrel dps, as we are probably the best in game at killing those.

 

As I said before its not going to be the same roll as your Vanguard/Powertech, but it will be better than it is now in PVP (I do still maintain that it is fairly decent right now).

 

Also it still the coolest class to play in game

[Shadowfoxs]

I cant wait for the expansion. One thing not many ppl are mentioning is that there changing alacrity and us scrappers and concealments are getting some buffs with it. So we don't get much extra dps buffs, we do get some faster dps. I'm hoping this alacrity will help us do better in pvp's. lol I was in the PTS once it came in and I did a wz on that pylon map, well I was fighting a sorcerer and I had his hp at 50%. So the sorc stunned me and used force speed to escape from me. well I knew what he was gonna do , so I used escape and in two rolls I was right back next to him and finished him off. I've got big hope for our roll.

[Mookind]

That's odd b/c now they have higher sustained dps in 2.0 than they did before.

 

Doesn't mean it's viable to take a dps scoundrel/operative to rated, but they do have higher sustained dps.

 

Troll?

 

Every other class will do more DPS as well, lol

 

If you want to DPS as an agent Snipers are the way to go

[oaceen]

Every other class will do more DPS as well, lol

 

and scoundrels more than held their own with that dps on the latest PTS build.

 

sustained damage is more than fine.

Edited April 4, 2013 by oaceen

[thendrix]

I want to start off by saying that I have been playing rogue dps classes in MMOs for over a decade, so I am not coming from an inexperienced place.

 

Pre-1.2 scrapper scoundrels were definitely a very useful and viable class for both PVP and PVE. The nerf was not necessarily unwarranted, however subsequent updates have continued to raise dps for other classes and not the scoundrel. Dirty fighting has been almost the only spec that can create a large and consistent amount of dps.

 

The expac is once more addressing areas outside of DPS for the scrapper, and parsing dps on a dummy is incredibly misleading compared to the requirements of gameplay during pve or pvp.

 

In SWTOR when it comes to dps the scoundrel is just not up to par. The gameplay is as exciting and versatile as any rogue class in an MMO, but unfortunately the dps is rather lacking. BW wanted to push the dps burst of the scrapper spec down because it frustrated so many other players, but if you have played since pre-launch you would know that the mindset of BW on this matter is not going to change.

 

It took me a full year to finally just respec into heals. I initially planned to run Sawbones for just a week, because I wanted to actually get into ranked wzs with actual good teammates. I have not had a desire to go back to dps with my main because Sawbones is such a better thought out spec, and it is not getting the blind eye that the dps specs are getting.

 

I sincerely recommend that all of you reevaluate your stance on dps scoundrels. THe double xp weekends are providing all of us to level up more potent dps classes that are the attention of BW. If you want to be a top dps player then you should look into a different class and just use scoundrels as healers.

 

THAT BEING SAID. If you just want to play a class that you enjoy and pug around then scoundrels are a very fun and engaging class to play. Just dont expect to constantly be the top dps player, and dont ever expect to be used in ranked wzs by any serious teams.

[GHoppa]

Still not there.

 

Reasonable chance to succeed ..... blah blah blah blah .... not just easily.

 

Thats it, you can do it! Don't contest any points of my arguement at all, because you can't. You just keep argueing symantics, your bound to prove your point that way!

 

I also find it funny you argee with me, but don't want to admit it. you said yourself, "We take a scoundrel when we can't find a shadow". LOL. Scoundrels are second class citizens right now, you know it, i know it, everyone knows it. Keep on truckin though, buddy.

 

As to the original point, 2.0 changes in scoundrels, it's too early too tell either way if they will compete and mix it up with the best. Alot of us hope so.