2.0 Juggernaut PvE Vengeance Guide

[Jurugu]

I am relatively new to Vengeance DPS, and as such I am wondering how you all handle the different Cooldowns on Shatter (12s) and Impale (9s). The rotation is a lot more compact when they are always used together, i.e. Shatter -> Impale -> Force Scream -> Filler (Vicious Throw, Ravage, Rage builder, whatever) -> Repeat, however this would mean 'loosing' 3s on Impale. The other option is to hit both whenever they are off CD, turning it all into a big mess.

 

What are you doing?

[ssfish]

I am relatively new to Vengeance DPS, and as such I am wondering how you all handle the different Cooldowns on Shatter (12s) and Impale (9s). The rotation is a lot more compact when they are always used together, i.e. Shatter -> Impale -> Force Scream -> Filler (Vicious Throw, Ravage, Rage builder, whatever) -> Repeat, however this would mean 'loosing' 3s on Impale. The other option is to hit both whenever they are off CD, turning it all into a big mess.

 

What are you doing?

 

There's not really a hard and fast rotation. We have a couple of procs that, when combined with the disparity between cooldown timers, prevent us from creating a concrete rotation.

 

I think what we've all kind of come up with is a priority system, such as the following:

 

1. Force Scream (when you have two stacks of the crit proc)

2. Shatter

3. Impale (only time not to use either of these is when you have Ravager coming off of its natural cooldown within the next 2 globals)

4. Ravage

5. V. Throw

 

When you are getting somewhat decent proc rates on Ravage, then it all really flows quite nicely. When you can't buy a Ravage proc to save your life, then things get a little messy and you have to make do with things like V.Slash and Force Push. I've been struggling to write down my philosophy on the class since I've had a few people approach me directly to ask for some sort of guide. But, there are so many "when-then" scenarios that I just can't seem to articulate my approach properly.

 

For example: If you proc Ravage off of Shatter, and Impale is not on CD, use it prior to Ravage. Personally, if it is within 1 global of being free, I'll use Smash or something to bridge the gap just to get Impale in before Ravage - unless Scream has more than 6 seconds left on CD, because then I can just use Impale after Ravage for the proc to Scream. If you have 2 stacks of Scream buff, always use it before starting a Ravage. The V.Throw proc lasts for 15 seconds, so you have plenty of time to fit it into an appropriate place - don't automatically use it right when it procs.

 

All said, there are so many divergence points within our combat rotation that it is hard (for me at least) to break down what abilities to use when. The best suggestion I can make is to hit the dummy and try different abilities in different circumstances and see what flows together best for you.

[Jurugu]

All these IFs and WHENs are what made me come up with that simplified

 

Shatter -> Impale -> Force Scream -> Filler (Vicious Throw, Ravage, Rage builder, whatever) -> Repeat

 

As long as you always use Shatter/Impale/Force Scream as a triplet in that order the main boundary conditions are automatically fulfilled. You will always have your two stacks for Force Scream, you will get the most possible Rampage Procs since the next Shatter is 10,5 seconds after the last Impale and as you said nothing is lost by delaying Vicious Throw or Ravage until all three are fired off.

 

If only I would not delay Impale 3 seconds longer than would be necessary every time.

[ssfish]

If only I would not delay Impale 3 seconds longer than would be necessary every time.

 

3 seconds each rotation. You are giving away (depending on gear) 3-6k every 3 rotations. That is not insignificant. Then figure you are also delaying Force Scream by 3 seconds every rotation as well, which is another ~4k every three rotations. We're talking about roughly 250 DPS over the course of three 12 second rotations that you give away just for the sake of making things simple.

 

Running a static rotation like this could probably be sufficient to do the job, but it's not going to come close to reaching the class potential.

[Jurugu]

Well, I am not really giving away the full 3 seconds on Force Scream since the more limiting factor for its use currently is not its CD but whether you have the two Savagery stacks.

 

You are correct on the Impale of course, but even here your figure of 3-6k every three rotations has to consider that Impale is not skipped for nothing. Some other (likely inferior) damage skill is used instead, lowering the loss. A loss still, no doubt.

 

So on to trying to mix it all up in one big mess of a rotation.

[ssfish]

Well, I am not really giving away the full 3 seconds on Force Scream since the more limiting factor for its use currently is not its CD but whether you have the two Savagery stacks.

 

You are correct on the Impale of course, but even here your figure of 3-6k every three rotations has to consider that Impale is not skipped for nothing. Some other (likely inferior) damage skill is used instead, lowering the loss. A loss still, no doubt.

 

So on to trying to mix it all up in one big mess of a rotation.

 

In my best parse, I used Scream once every 9.8 seconds. The procs come easily when you aren't using a rigid 12 second spin. And yes, you are filling in that 3 seconds with something, but just running it through in my head it seems to me that "something" is going to be Assault more often than not.... And those global CDs still exist, after the Impale instead. By delaying it 3 seconds every rotation, that means you are delaying it 9 seconds over3, which results in 1 less Impale in that same time frame. It just isn't there, so it's a static loss.

Edited May 21, 2013 by ssfish

[ThatGuyOverTher]

It may seem odd but the pvp relic Partisan Relic of Serendidous assault combined with the pve serendipitous aasault (who cares if its spelt wrong, the relic that gives you 450+ power when procd), may be considered at the moment as best in slot because when you subtract the time the buff is the cooldown is around 10 seconds. But I don't have the relics on my jugg yet but a mara dps with the relics gets a huge boost. So with these relics you don't have to wait 90 seconds for the boundless ages to come off cd. This is what me and my friends think and with talking with my guild.

[drummerinthesun]

I think one of the most frustrating things with the Shatter>Impale>FS triplet is the rage cost if you don't get a rampage proc as well as Shatter and FS coming off cooldown at the same time after that. It won't happen everytime but enough rotations will bring it back around again. I guess in that situation Shatter would take priority over FS, right? Also, I never have an issue with not having two FS procs for the auto crit, so I don't even think about waiting for them to pop up.