RuQu Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 People really need to stop with all this "gambling" nonsense. Leaving aside the fact that these packs are not deemed to be "gambling" under the law because you can't receive anything of actual monetary value, people are obviously just shouting as much as they can about "gambling" under some misguided belief that this will somehow make BW and EA get rid of the packs. It's not gonna happen. Anyone who thinks that these packs have anything to do with "gambling addiction" just doesn't get it. People with gambling addictions are placing calls to their bookies and making trips to the casinos. They get a rush from winning and their decisions have nothing to do with what they can afford to spend or the odds of them winning. There's a massive difference between someone blowing their paycheck at the casino for the thrill of winning compared to some guy buying a bunch of Cartel packs because he specifically wants Revan's Mask and has nowhere near the credits to afford it off the GTN. That has nothing to do with gambling and that person should be permitted to spend whatever amount they want to buy packs to get that item. Trying to turn the "I don't like the packs" argument into some sort of public service argument against gambling addiction in an attempt to make the opposition to packs more palatable is disingenuous. Having lived with a roommate with gambling addiction, I can honestly say you have no idea what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Having lived with a roommate with gambling addiction, I can honestly say you have no idea what you are talking about. Well, my aunt and her cat both had gambling addiction and they cured it just by giving away all their money. My anecdotal story negates your anecdotal story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Well, my aunt and her cat both had gambling addiction and they cured it just by giving away all their money. My anecdotal story negates your anecdotal story. I'm sorry you are coping so poorly with the loss of basic human interaction and empathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Hello I finally gave in and decided to purchase not one but two hypercrates. I thought "48 packs should definitely snag me 4 certificates". But it didn't. It only got me 2 certificates. I'm a little bit peeved. I don't mind paying money for stuff and I'm also a subscriber (6 month recurring) but the drop rate for these certificates seems really really harsh - I'm not going to pay for two hyper crates just to get a mere 2 certificates. I hope that Bioware will loosen the purse strings a little for future customers. Sorry for moaning, but it's been bugging me for a week and I needed a little moan hehe. LMAO. You are exactly who BEAware loves. So much money for make believe stuff - dropped at random Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I'm sorry you are coping so poorly with the loss of basic human interaction and empathy. I'm not responsible for the bad habits of others. And neither is Bioware/EA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I really dislike how people are trying to hide their contempt for the low drop rates in these packs with an excuse of gambling addiction. That trvializes real gambling addiction and problems. Stop trying to make EA responsible for your bad habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glowrod Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I'm not responsible for the bad habits of others. And neither is Bioware/EA. I think people are looking at this like the drug dealer on the corner. The dealer isn't responsible for people's habits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I think people are looking at this like the drug dealer on the corner. The dealer isn't responsible for people's habits... TOR is not a drug. Nothing in TOR is even remotely that addictive. Further, the packs aren't even gambling. There's no chance of 'losing', since you're guaranteed a certain number of items per pack, with a guaranteed Rep Boost in each pack. Every Pack is a 'winner'. They're just whining because they see the low drop rate of things like the Certs and Skiffs and get mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Welcome to the RNG. Sit a spell and grab the handle of the variable reward skinner box. EA is counting on you falling into the same trap as those that frequent the slots in Vegas. All is working as intended, you are being fleeced at your own request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 TOR is not a drug. Nothing in TOR is even remotely that addictive. Further, the packs aren't even gambling. There's no chance of 'losing', since you're guaranteed a certain number of items per pack, with a guaranteed Rep Boost in each pack. Every Pack is a 'winner'. They're just whining because they see the low drop rate of things like the Certs and Skiffs and get mad. Pretty much this. Losing is defined by not getting the item YOU want but everyone "wins" because every pack contains item. If someone "loses" its not because the pack didn't drop anything, its because they defined their loss by the item they didn't get. This is, at best, remotely related to real gambling. True gambling involves a complete loss of funds with nothing in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 TOR is not a drug. Nothing in TOR is even remotely that addictive. Further, the packs aren't even gambling. There's no chance of 'losing', since you're guaranteed a certain number of items per pack, with a guaranteed Rep Boost in each pack. Every Pack is a 'winner'. They're just whining because they see the low drop rate of things like the Certs and Skiffs and get mad. "Every pack's a winner" does not negate that it is gambling. You can get worthless items or valuable items. The return is variable. A slot machine that dispensed ice cubes on "losing pulls" would still be a gambling machine, even though you "got something" on every pull. The "something" just happened to be worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 TOR is not a drug. Nothing in TOR is even remotely that addictive. Further, the packs aren't even gambling. There's no chance of 'losing', since you're guaranteed a certain number of items per pack, with a guaranteed Rep Boost in each pack. Every Pack is a 'winner'. They're just whining because they see the low drop rate of things like the Certs and Skiffs and get mad. You don't understand addiction. MMORPGs are highly addictive depending on the personality and history of the person playing. They are not addictive to all but, they are in fact addictive to some. People with OCD can be particularly hard hit by MMORPG addiction. People that only find their emotional fulfilment from playing MMORPGs can become addicted to them. To say that NOTHING in SWTOR is addictive is an out right lie. SWTOR by it's very nature of being an MMORPG is addictive to some. Now add on top of that in Freemium systems with "gambling boxes" and you have even more that is potentially addictive. Again you clearly don't understand addictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Pretty much this. Losing is defined by not getting the item YOU want but everyone "wins" because every pack contains item. If someone "loses" its not because the pack didn't drop anything, its because they defined their loss by the item they didn't get. This is, at best, remotely related to real gambling. True gambling involves a complete loss of funds with nothing in return. If this was the case, then all casinos would have every slot machine and table "reward" some near zero, but non-zero, value item. Like ice cubes or raisins. They would then not be "gambling." They don't do this because this is not the defining feature of gambling. It is the variable value of the return and the random nature of the reward, not whether or not you received anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 "Every pack's a winner" does not negate that it is gambling. You can get worthless items or valuable items. The return is variable. A slot machine that dispensed ice cubes on "losing pulls" would still be a gambling machine, even though you "got something" on every pull. The "something" just happened to be worthless. Yes, yes it does. Gambling involves risking money with no guarantee of return. That's the basic and most primal definition of gambling. You risk money with no guarantee of getting anything back. And NONE of those items are worthless. NONE of them. Even the lowest of the low(XP boosts) can be very lucrative and profitable if sold at the right times. And even if you can't sell them, they still have value. They do things. Pets and emotes and boosts that let you grind faster. All of these things have VALUE in the game. So yes, every Pack IS a winner. You're just mad because you can't get what you want from them and so you want to call it 'gambling'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 If this was the case, then all casinos would have every slot machine and table "reward" some near zero, but non-zero, value item. Like ice cubes or raisins. They would then not be "gambling." They don't do this because this is not the defining feature of gambling. It is the variable value of the return and the random nature of the reward, not whether or not you received anything. If I pay money and I get raisins in return, then I just BOUGHT some Raisins. Guaranteed product for cash is called a STORE. Like, oh, maybe a Cartel MARKET. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Yes, yes it does. Gambling involves risking money with no guarantee of return. That's the basic and most primal definition of gambling. You risk money with no guarantee of getting anything back. And NONE of those items are worthless. NONE of them. Even the lowest of the low(XP boosts) can be very lucrative and profitable if sold at the right times. And even if you can't sell them, they still have value. They do things. Pets and emotes and boosts that let you grind faster. All of these things have VALUE in the game. So yes, every Pack IS a winner. You're just mad because you can't get what you want from them and so you want to call it 'gambling'. Actually, I don't buy packs at all. I have purchased exactly one pack from the market with my monthly complimentary coins. I created the other thread you are trolling after reading the OP here's complete lack of understanding of probability and the gambler's fallacy after wasting over $100 of real money. And then contemplating buying yet more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 If this was the case, then all casinos would have every slot machine and table "reward" some near zero, but non-zero, value item. Like ice cubes or raisins. They would then not be "gambling." They don't do this because this is not the defining feature of gambling. It is the variable value of the return and the random nature of the reward, not whether or not you received anything. Please show me 'any' gambling house that guarantees something in return for placing a bet. Any lottery. Any game of chance. Anything at all. Because, right now, all I see is you trying to redefine 'gambling' so you can be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Actually, I don't buy packs at all. I have purchased exactly one pack from the market with my monthly complimentary coins. I created the other thread you are trolling after reading the OP here's complete lack of understanding of probability and the gambler's fallacy after wasting over $100 of real money. And then contemplating buying yet more! here's a hint: disputing someone's argument is not trolling, even if it does make you furious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 If I pay money and I get raisins in return, then I just BOUGHT some Raisins. Guaranteed product for cash is called a STORE. Like, oh, maybe a Cartel MARKET. You are wrong. If you had ever been outside in a real city you would see that such Raisin Markets don't exist, because legally they are still gambling and most places have laws against that. Dispensing raisins does not negate those laws. You are making up your own definition of the word and then arguing that it isn't gambling based on your own personal terminology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) If I pay money and I get raisins in return, then I just BOUGHT some Raisins. Guaranteed product for cash is called a STORE. Like, oh, maybe a Cartel MARKET. Look, you're arguing semantics. Would you object to the items in the Cartel Packs being sold direct? Without a random chance to get the item you need? This is what I wish were the case. This RNG-based system rewards only the lucky. Edit: That's not a big deal with lucky loot drops in a raid, but it's a different story when spending cash. Edited March 20, 2013 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 here's a hint: disputing someone's argument is not trolling, even if it does make you furious. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. You are either trolling, intentionally arguing something to get a rise out of people, or you are an idiot. I prefer to assume you are just bored, because I'm generous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Please show me 'any' gambling house that guarantees something in return for placing a bet. Any lottery. Any game of chance. Anything at all. Because, right now, all I see is you trying to redefine 'gambling' so you can be right. You are actually proving my point. If a guarantee sidestepped the definition of gambling, then places in the real world would do it. Gambling is heavily regulated and taxed where it is legal, and it is illegal in most places in the US. If simply guaranteeing a minimum amount of raisins for any expenditure was all it took to sidestep the ban, then you would see this. You don't, because it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. You are either trolling, intentionally arguing something to get a rise out of people, or you are an idiot. I prefer to assume you are just bored, because I'm generous. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't make them 'an idiot'. Use insults again and get reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 You are actually proving my point. If a guarantee sidestepped the definition of gambling, then places in the real world would do it. Gambling is heavily regulated and taxed where it is legal, and it is illegal in most places in the US. If simply guaranteeing a minimum amount of raisins for any expenditure was all it took to sidestep the ban, then you would see this. You don't, because it isn't. So you're basically saying "Because gambling houses don't use guaranteed rewards, that means that guaranteed rewards are irrelevant and it's still gambling, even though you're not actually risking money at all." That's...adorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Just because you disagree with someone doesn't make them 'an idiot'. Use insults again and get reported. I didn't call you an idiot at all. I quite explicitly said I thought you were bored. I do, however, think that a person who cannot grasp that exchanging a fixed number of dollars for a variable value of return is a form of gambling must clearly have something wrong with their brain. Whether its an overly rigid mindset, or sub-average intelligence, or some flaw in their ability to empathize with others. I'm not saying that you have such a problem, but it is my opinion that there is something wrong with a person who cannot make that reasonable concession that gambling is an exchange of money for a random chance of reward, with a chance of getting zero in return. The value of cash is clear. The value of non-cash items is assigned by the receiver, and it is entirely possible that the value of that reward is zero. For the OP in this thread, they clearly wanted the certificates. For all we know, they already have 500 million credits, and credits are worthless to them. So giving them more fake money is the same as giving them zero. What they spent money on was a chance at that cert, and it came up zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts