Why isn't there a WZ quitters cooldown?

[PhilD]

Saying "These two things happened to me, therefore this is a generalizable experience" is, in fact, the precise opposite of logic.

[Tiaa]

So if I join a warzone and leave before it starts or don't like the warzone I am in I should be punished?

 

I'll humor you though.

 

 

So here we are:

 

-Too many people with low HP. One or two is fine but three or four in a game where you most likely are going up against half premades. NO. Sadly the way this game works (or does it) they are usually going to get wrecked.

- Players not responding to calls for help. Because reading chat is hard.

- Players that don't want to be helpful. You know, the ones that cap turrets and then leave it?

-Players that decide to mass ditch a node and let the enemy cap it, then fail to take the other node because they think a group of red players running together goes unnoticed .

-Too many Commandos. Yes. Commandos/Mercs are just waste of space and free kills in my eyes. I don't mind one, but games with three or more is just asking for a loss.

-Players that can't focus kill enemies with TARGETS on their head.

- Players that don't call for help or call AFTER they have died.

-Players that mass group in Hypergate then go get destroyed at the enemy pylon giving the enemy team a billion points.

-Players that apparently do not have a map nor can look at their raid list. If you don't know why I am saying that, most likely you are a big problem in Warzones.

 

ETC.

 

I've been in games where I would watch people run back and forth doing nothing. I've been in games where people play follow the leader, leave everything undefended while zerging. Yeah. I won't be staying in those games.

 

It only takes one person to mess up the Warzone for everyone. Pre-mades can usually bounce back from mistakes quickly, PUGS usually can not. Why wait 15 minutes slowly losing most would say. I say. Some will leave at the start due to some of these and some will leave once they see what's going on. While I do agree that some of these players that leave were probably the problem themselves ( but I even see those people in raid groups. they mess up then blame other players), the majority of the time it's the people who rage about why people leave.

 

Would you rather have those people in the game screaming and calling you all "noobs" or have them just leave and think it to themselves? Because really that's all it will do and you will probably feel worse knowing some players rather take a 15 cooldown penalty than deal with a bad game.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Tiaa

[Soxbadger]

I fight to the bitter end.

 

Sometimes its just me getting pounded by the other team because they recognize that I am actually trying while the rest of the team just runs around seeing how they can show off their dps abilities.

 

I just dont like quitting. Now everyone has the right to quit, just expect that if you quit on my team and you ever happen to que up with a premade of my guild or a good group, I wont heal you. I just will let you prove your awesomeness, because you couldnt be bothered to try and help my team win when the odds were stacked against us.

 

Because last I checked warzones are about teams. And maybe you are the best pvper, maybe you can see how bad everyone else is, but that is no excuse for not trying to use your skills to win.

 

Quitters just need to admit that they dont want to be challenged, they just want to win. Thats fine, maybe there should be a que for people who just want to sit around in a circle and say "We won!". Actually there should probably be a quitters que, that way you can just que up with the rest of the people who throw in the towel when the going gets rough.

 

Dont want to punish anyone, just think that they should be amongst their own kind.

 

(edit)

 

I have no problem with people who quit prior to the start. If I que in to Huttball and dont feel like playing that game, there is no reason why I cant elect to move on.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Soxbadger
adding information

[Ridickilis]

Using sub 50 pvp is a bad example, so lets keep this revolving around end game pvp.

 

That match that I tagged both healers in, that no one else seemed to care about, I actually stayed because I just needed one more win/loss to finish the daily so I could log out for the night in disgust. I also wanted to see numbers on just how bad this pug was.

 

One healer did 400k and only took 135k damage. The other healer did 300k and only took 65k damage. They were both tagged upon my first death at the very beginning of the CW.

 

That's just sad.

[DariusCalera]

Someone that uses logic and truth as I do ^

 

+1

 

He really didn't use logic in his argument, nor truth. Only opinion.

 

Once again opinion = \ = logic. No matte how hard people might want it to.

 

Also, using pre 50 PvP to justify anything, be it a quitter debuff or proof on how bad someone is, isn't a good argument either.

[PhilD]

-Players that mass group in Hypergate then go get destroyed at the enemy pylon giving the enemy team a billion points.

 

Haha, it's funny, even though Hypergate probably has the least-understood scoring mechanics for lowbies and can quickly , I've quit it less than any other WZ.

[Caeliux]

He really didn't use logic in his argument, nor truth. Only opinion.

 

Once again opinion = \ = logic. No matte how hard people might want it to.

 

No logic or truth huh?

 

Some people on this thread seem to think they can instantly determine the quality of their team without playing for a bit.. Calling them headless chickens, and leaving immediately.. This is arrogance, and self centerdness at it's finest, and it's the flaw with todays generation of kids.

 

Logic and truth ^

 

It's undisputed.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Caeliux

[PhilD]

I think you are confused about what "logic" means.

[DariusCalera]

And "truth".

[scraycroft]

That is the same thing Bioware could of done when this game was made, made a deserter buff for quitters just like Warcraft.

 

Undisputed truth ^

 

 

 

Everyone cheated the deserter buff in WoW. Everyone just had their toon set up to jump every minute to keep the debuff off and the votekick never worked. It comes down to this: Do you want the person to leave and you have a chance at someone better, or for that person to sit there and just pile on a node not helping in any way. Until they fix the matchmaking it won't get any better.

 

 

Edit: Undisputed truth ^

Edited March 20, 2013 by scraycroft
edit

[Caeliux]

I think you are confused about what "logic" means.

 

Logic: sensible argument and thought: sensible rational thought and argument rather than ideas that are influenced by emotion or whim

Some people on this thread seem to think they can instantly determine the quality of their team without playing for a bit.. Calling them headless chickens, and leaving immediately

 

Logic ^

 

And "truth".

 

Truth: true quality: correspondence to fact or reality

 

This is arrogance, and self centerdness at it's finest, and it's the flaw with todays generation of kids.

 

Truth ^

 

Everyone cheated the deserter buff in WoW. Everyone just had their toon set up to jump every minute to keep the debuff off and the votekick never worked.

 

But yet in League of Legends and in Warcraft they still work and quitters still get punished and a lesson gets taught.

 

Without rules there is no structure for growth, without growth there is no future.

 

"There is no growth without change; there is no change without fear or loss; and there is no loss without pain."

 

-Anonymous

 

Wisdom for your mind, soak it in Bioware and quitters alike.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Caeliux

[scraycroft]

 

Truth ^

 

 

 

But yet in League of Legends and in Warcraft they still work and quitters still get punished and a lesson gets taught.

 

 

People still queue dodge and quit in those games regardless of the punishment. I can't count how many LoL games people have quit/queue dodged, even in ranked.

 

On top of that this is a game where much of the player base has multiple alts. In WoW it was unusual when a player had more than 3-4 level 80's (I quit when it maxed at 80, not sure what it is now), in SWTOR it is the norm for a player to have multiple, even up to the server max, alts at max level. Put in a 30 minute deserter buff, these players will just log into an alt and play a WZ on their other toons while they wait for the debuff to wear off.

[Caeliux]

People still queue dodge and quit in those games regardless of the punishment. I can't count how many LoL games people have quit/queue dodged, even in ranked.

 

My answer to that,

Children when they get punished sometimes rebel against their parent for punishing them, after awhile that child finally gives in to the rules because they all of sudden know the parent isn't kidding and the rules are not bending for anyone.

 

 

Put in a 30 minute deserter buff, these players will just log into an alt and play a WZ on their other toons while they wait for the debuff to wear off.

 

Good a lesson gets taught, that means that person got consequences for his/her actions.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Caeliux

[scraycroft]

Good a lesson gets taught, that means that person got consequences for his/her actions.

 

But no lesson is being taught here, this isn't an MMO where it takes weeks to a month to grind a set of gear, hell you can grind a full set of WH in a dedicated day of playtime on a weekend. The player may be slightly inconvenienced at most. If I had the choice of running with 7 terrible players, or getting a 30 min slap on the wrist while I just log onto my other 50 to play the exact same WZ's with a chance at a team that is competent, I will still quit.

 

 

And off topic, until they let you reconnect to a match when you get DC'd/Crashed this shouldn't be implemented at the rate this crap engine runs.

[Caeliux]

If I had the choice of running with 7 terrible players, or getting a 30 min slap on the wrist while I just log onto my other 50 to play the exact same WZ's with a chance at a team that is competent, I will still quit.

 

I understand your feelings, but you deserve a deserter buff.

[PhilD]

Logic: sensible argument and thought: sensible rational thought and argument rather than ideas that are influenced by emotion or whim

 

No, logic is a series of statements, each of which follows axiomatically or is reasonably derived from the prior statement, leading to a particular conclusion. It's like a branch of mathematics and everything.

[PhilD]

Children when they get punished sometimes rebel against their parent for punishing them, after awhile that child finally gives in to the rules because they all of sudden know the parent isn't kidding and the rules are not bending for anyone.

 

See, again, if you are even halfway seriously comparing the relationship between yourself and other players, or between Bioware and its subscribers, to that of a parent and a child - in any manner, even metaphorically -- then you skipped about a million steps somewhere. I pay Bioware to play this game; they are in no position to "punish" me for anything short of a TOS violation or outright hacking. Period. They are not my parent; the closest proper analogy is that they are perhaps an employee or a contracted service provider. And you certainly are not my parent. I'm 43 years old, and I darn well don't need you to set rules for me.

 

Added: I'm ROFL at the idea that "They are nasty, tricksy rule-breakers and need to be punished like the bad little children they are" is "logic and truth" and completely un-influenced by emotion. Stick with that line of argument, it will take you far.

Edited March 21, 2013 by PhilD
Adding:

[Caeliux]

I pay Bioware to play this game; they are in no position to "punish" me for anything short of a TOS violation or outright hacking. Period. They are not my parent; the closest proper analogy is that they are perhaps an employee or a contracted service provider. And you certainly are not my parent. I'm 43 years old, and I darn well don't need you to set rules for me.

 

I pay as well and want people to get punished for leaving warzones and providing games to be losed, not to mention making backfill due to the instant gratification kids.

 

I am 36 years old, and have no problem telling grown adults they need rules.

 

Age don't matter, rules does.

 

Even grown adults need rules.

 

Nice excuses though, I give it a 1-10.

[DariusCalera]

Truth: true quality: correspondence to fact or reality

 

But your truth is only corresponding to what you perceive emotionally as facts or reality.

 

You have given no actual facts, just opinion, as to why you think players deserve a quitter debuff.

 

Provide actual, substantiating, and provable facts as to why they deserve the debuff. If you can do that then you can, possibly, win the argument. If you can not do that, then your argument is one that is no different than a child, attempting, to change the rules of the game because they do not like playing by them.

Edited March 21, 2013 by DariusCalera

[mulzii]

I pay as well and want people to get punished for leaving warzones and providing games to be losed, not to mention making backfill due to the instant gratification kids.

 

I am 36 years old, and have no problem telling grown adults they need rules.

 

Age don't matter, rules does.

 

Even grown adults need rules.

 

Nice excuses though, I give it a 1-10.

 

Thats a very negative idea. All it would do is make people stay in a WZ they do not want to be in, for whatever reason, and do nothing but complain on the ops channel the entire time. Or since most people have many alts, they would still quit, and log in an alt until the debuff wears off. Its better in most cases when these people leave.

 

I'd rather they give incentives for staying in the WZ. Titles, valor adaptive armor, comms, extra money whatever. Always best to reward good behavior then punish bad, at least if your trying to keep/gain a playerbase happy. People will complain less anyway, and still have fun, which is good.

[Caeliux]

You have given no actual facts, just opinion, as to why you think players deserve a quitter debuff.

 

Ok here is some facts,

 

*Do people quit warzones? Yes

 

*Is it egotistical? Yes

 

*When people quit a warzone does it mess up the game? Yes

 

*Do people end up queuing into already in session games? Yes

 

*Is it fair for us wasting time dealing with already in session games? No

 

*Is it fair to your teammates that you quit? No

 

*Do people feel self-entitled to leave a warzone? Yes

 

*Do people have a million excuses why they should be able to quit? Yes

 

Provide actual, substantiating, and provable facts as to why they deserve the debuff.

 

Fact is warzone quitters dictate games, which means each game 6/10 is losed due to a quitter.

 

What that means is the quitters in this game has full control on everyone elses time in warzones, which means no consequences are happening when someone quits, and Bioware is allowing these quitters to do as they please.

 

These are not a opinion these are facts, if you are in denial over these facts then all you are doing is making excuses for yourself and are standing up for a quitter mentality.

 

*Do quitters exist? Yes

 

*Should there be consequences for actions like that? Yes

 

*Is a quitter mentality mean people are self absorbed and egotistical? Yes

 

*If rules are applied and a deserter buff is activated will people learn their lesson? Yes

 

*Will people try to make excuses and act like children if rules are applied? Yes

 

*Will it matter? No, because the quitter mentality only exist when no rules are there.

 

Should I continue?

Edited March 21, 2013 by Caeliux

[DariusCalera]

Ok here is some facts,

 

*Do people quit warzones? Yes

 

Given, not in dispute.

 

*Is it egotistical? Yes

 

Opinion

 

*When people quit a warzone does it mess up the game? Yes

 

Opinion

 

*Do people end up queuing into already in session games? Yes

 

Would happen with or without the quitter debuff so it's a moot point.

 

*Is it fair for us wasting time dealing with already in session games? No

 

Opinion

 

*Is it fair to your teammates that you quit? No

 

Opinion

 

*Do people feel self-entitled to leave a warzone? Yes

 

Opinion

 

**Do people have a million excuses why they should be able to quit? Yes

 

Opinion. Noticing a trend here? Any time you mention "fairness" or "feelings" it is your opinion on what is fair

 

 

Fact is warzone quitters dictate games, which means each game 9/10 is losed due to a quitter.

 

The quality of the players is what dictates the WZs, not the quitters. I've been in enough to know that just because someone leaves, it is not a loss. They did not dictate that, my team mates and I did. Once again, I hold no ill will towards the quitters. Also, stating that 9/10 loses is due to quitters is, once again, your opinion since you have done no research to verify it.

 

What that means is the quitters in this game has full control on everyone elses time in warzones, which means no consequences are happening when someone quits, and Bioware is allowing these quitters to do as they please.

 

Since it is you who is sitting at your computer, it is you who has full control over how your time is spent in the game. I am guessing that there is no one standing over you with a gun to your head while you play.

 

These are not a opinion these are facts, if you are in denial over these facts then all you are doing is making excuses for yourself and are standing up for a quitter mentality.

 

Read up what a fact is. It is provable. Very little about what you have stated is provable.

 

*Do quitters exist? Yes

 

No one ever said that they didn't.

 

*Should there be consequences for actions like that? Yes

 

Opinion.

 

*Is a quitter mentality mean people are self absorbed and egotistical? Yes

 

Opinion. Prove it.

 

*If rules are applied and a deserter buff is activated will people learn their lesson? Yes

Opinion.

 

It would simply be a change of the rules.

 

*Will people try to make excuses and act like children if rules are applied? Yes

 

Opinion. You still can't prove this.

 

*Will it matter? No, because the quitter mentality only exist when no rules are there.

Opinion again.

 

Should I continue?

 

Please do. Almost nothing that you have stated as a fact is, actually, a fact. The stuff that is factual I have agreed with.

 

As I stated above, for something to be a "fact" it has to be provable. So, until you can prove any of your points above they are just opinions.

[Urantia]

Ok here is some facts,

 

*Do people quit warzones? Yes {Fact}

 

*Is it egotistical? Yes {Opinion [there are many reasons a player may quit...and it is not always tied to an ego]}

 

*When people quit a warzone does it mess up the game? Yes {Opinion [not always true]}

 

*Do people end up queuing into already in session games? Yes {Fact [Devs have addressed this]}

 

*Is it fair for us wasting time dealing with already in session games? No {Opinion}

 

*Is it fair to your teammates that you quit? No {Opinion}

 

*Do people feel self-entitled to leave a warzone? Yes {Opinion}

 

*Do people have a million excuses why they should be able to quit? Yes {Opinion [You are also exaggerating]}

 

 

 

Fact is warzone quitters dictate games, which means each game 9/10 is losed due to a quitter. {False/Opinion [Quitters can dictate the outcome. This is not 100% in all possible cases. Thus cannot be a fact]}

 

What that means is the quitters in this game has full control on everyone elses time in warzones, which means no consequences are happening when someone quits, and Bioware is allowing these quitters to do as they please. {False [Hyperbole at best]}

 

These are not a opinion these are facts, if you are in denial over these facts then all you are doing is making excuses for yourself and are standing up for a quitter mentality. {These are not facts...clearly}

 

*Do quitters exist? Yes {Fact [yes people quit matches for many reasons (the list is very finite)]}

 

*Should there be consequences for actions like that? Yes {Opinion}

 

*Is a quitter mentality mean people are self absorbed and egotistical? Yes {Opinion [unless you know every person that has ever quit a match and their personal reasons, you cannot claim this to be a fact]}

 

*If rules are applied and a deserter buff is activated will people learn their lesson? Yes {Opinion [this presumes there is a lesson to be learned...and that said player(s) are capable of learning (not all people can learn from mistakes...we call these people sociopaths)]}

 

*Will people try to make excuses and act like children if rules are applied? Yes {Opinion}

 

*Will it matter? No, because the quitter mentality only exist when no rules are there. {Opinion}

 

Should I continue? {No. I am pretty certain you have made you personal feeling and opinions clear. Since you are not [nor is anyone to be fair] capable of speaking for all possible players and why they quit, all you can do is state what you think}

 

I get where you are coming from, but I do not see a debuff as a solution. Perhaps if it were made like the group finder where it is account wide {unless that changed...not run a FP in a very long time}....maybe it would help. But as all know it would/could just encourage more bad behavior than it alleviates.

 

Kindly remind yourself this is not a real conflict....it is just a video game that most play for fun. If it is not fun, they will likely not play it. I am certain you can guess at a few reasons and psychologies as to why people quit, but you cannot know them all.

 

BW needs to take a little responsibility as well. If players could make progress in their weekly without winning a match...I am willing to bet less people would quit. I play WZs to win...if it becomes obvious {a personal assessment} that it is a waste of time I am out. Why? Because it is a video game lol....not a real war/conflict.

 

Speaking for myself...I have been PvPing since beta, and in my personal opinion have long since took my licks. I have seen ever possible form of disater that can happen in a WZ {within reason}, and at this point in my evolution I do not log on to waste my time. While I cannot speak for others, all I can say is my actions are never dictated my an ego or emotions. I do not talk trash to the winners, and I do not belittle the loser. I zone in, play the match, and exit as soon as the exit button comes up {I do not even waste the time to vote}.

 

I am not there to be famous, loved, or even remembered {ideally I will garner zero emotions from others}. But that is me. It is true {in my opionion}, that some players quit or zone in with the anti-social intent to grief others. They are the statistical few. But to presume that, statistically, quitters hurt more than help is false reasoning and you cannot prove it. I would argue otherwise.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Urantia

[Caeliux]

Kindly remind yourself this is not a real conflict....it is just a video game that most play for fun. If it is not fun, they will likely not play it. I am certain you can guess at a few reasons and psychologies as to why people quit, but you cannot know them all.

 

It's a conflict when its a problem that exist, and quitters provide problems to games.

 

If players could make progress in their weekly without winning a match...I am willing to bet less people would quit. I play WZs to win...if it becomes obvious {a personal assessment} that it is a waste of time I am out. Why? Because it is a video game lol....not a real war/conflict.

 

I understand this isn't real life, but again without rules conflict happens, and conflict is what quitters provide when games get losed and backfill happens.

 

While I cannot speak for others, all I can say is my actions are never dictated my an ego or emotions. I do not talk trash to the winners, and I do not belittle the loser. I zone in, play the match, and exit as soon as the exit button comes up {I do not even waste the time to vote}.

 

Good to see that type of play from someone, I salute you for it.

 

I am not there to be famous, loved, or even remembered {ideally I will garner zero emotions from others}. But that is me. It is true {in my opionion}, that some players quit or zone in with the anti-social intent to grief others. They are the statistical few. But to presume that, statistically, quitters hurt more than help is false reasoning and you cannot prove it. I would argue otherwise.

 

Well said and I as well don't want recognition for my blogging and debating on the forums, my intention is to wake up people and I pray get a rise for a post from a dev to see what they think of this epidemic of quitters in SWTOR.

 

Got no clue what Bioware was thinking when they decided to put a leave warzone button without no penalty in PVP, every excuse to use that feature is the sole reason people think I have opinions and don't state facts about the mentality of this self proclaimed PVP gamers.

 

It personally sickens me to see self absorbed laziness when it comes to the excuses people make when someone like me reasons and calls for a true reason to stand ground and not quit.

 

I don't condone or accept a quitter mentality, reason for that is I teach young children to strive and win ball games, if we lose ballgames we take pride in that game and celebrate a good job even when a lose happens.

 

A gg is a game played all the way through, no matter win lose or draw.

 

Not one of my kids quit, if they get hurt they get attended to and recognized, but quitting during a match is unacceptable unless its a 911 emergency.

 

(metaphorically speaking also a disconnect when we are talking about computers is another excuse)

 

Let me remind you this is a peewee league team I coach, these are 3-5 year olds that understand the goal at hand, which is to try to have fun and win and play the game.

 

Any other reason would be a self absorbed reason to quit, and that kid would sit on the bench and would be talked to from me, not punished in a way like I want for this game but you get the idea.

 

And if you don't I can't help you.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Caeliux

[rlamela]

Everytime this idea gets brought up on this forum the quitters zerg the thread about why they shouldn't be punished for hanging their teammates out to dry.

 

Because these threads are stupid. They have been made since beta. I mean seriously boo hoo you had to back fill. Don't like back filling a game join a group (most cases you only need a group of 2) And if you are crying aboot how its unfair to the other players in the warzone (lets get real we weren't going to win if I stayed) Seriously there is 0 good reasons to punish someone for dropping a warzone. 90% of matches I quit I do so before match starts. 9% I drop are because people don't manage doing the simple things in warzones that help you win.

The last 1% are games in where other team is just 1000X better then our team (6 to 8 man premades). Getting completely run through isn't fun so yeah I will bail and so should you.

 

Jenna'syyde