Are Sorcerers weak?

[foxmob]

Well you have to admit when you have classes that are defensively strong and do as much damage as other DPS classes it will create a perception that a class that is defensively weaker with good damage is weak.

 

I personally think that the harder you hit, the less defensive you should be and vice-versa. But that's just me. This game does not follow that ideology at all.

that actually sounds like PT/VG pyros/assaults to a T. they hit extremely hard and have jack poo for dcds/hp recoup. however, maras do hit extremely hard and have some of the best dcds in the game. it's amazing what I'm able to do playing a watchman sent badly as opposed to the vg assault. the vg is more valuable cuz of taunts, but in terms of oppenents that I can toe to toe with...man. I wouldn't mess with a sniper on my vg, but I eat them up 1v1 on watchman. pacify is a ridiculous abil. lol I'll never cry about gbtf again. that thing's kind of a joke. s'all about pacify man.

[Polymerize]

This here

 

Yo Depreva do you not play anymore? Hit me upppp.

[PloGreen]

Hi I am a dps sorc. I want sorc's not only to be tied with the best spot as a healer. I want them to also be the best dps in the game, with the best defensive cooldowns. and keep cleanse, heals and the ability to instant heal someone with a bubble that is not subject to an offensive dispel. I also want to keep friendly pull, my ranged stun, my ranged interrupt, my ranged slow, and my aoe knockback that instagibs people off of bridges (doesn't count towards overall dmg in voidstar) even though that wins games many times. I also want to keep my force sprint which allows me to get back and defend a door, node faster then other classes when I die.

 

Then we can have ranked warzones with 6 sorcs and 2 tanks.

 

There aren't enough sorcs in this game. We need MORE. I mean look up a few posts, someone complained about having 4-5 sorcs in a WZ? We won't be happy till we have like all 8 spots.

 

Also it is unfair that we can't tank. We want that to. To DPS classes that can't heal or tank? Screw them. It is unfair that I have to level 2 characters for two different roles in ranked Warzones.

 

/signed most of the sorcerers in this thread who have never played any other class in this game at 50, and have no idea what they are talking aboutt. I just replaced my keyboard with all Q buttons. I thought it fit the sorc community.

 

This is my gaming mouse.

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_zSWJkb_7Edw/TIGgHTVBTeI/AAAAAAAABlc/b0cl7e92O_A/s1600/Brazilian+Computer+Mouse+-+Minnie+in+Pink+01.jpg

 

I used to have the wireless version, but batteries ran out once. Mouses with more then one button confuse me.

 

Well if you are an ambassador for any of the other classes, I would say it doesn't bode well for you either. What's your toon names and server name? You talk an awfully big game. Put your money where your mouth is.

Edited March 17, 2013 by PloGreen

[Lelvannia]

LOL why would anyone care about normals, hell i would take a team of ungeared 8 sorcerers for all i care in normals. RANKED pvp viability is what people care about and thats just fine in current and 2.0 patchs.

Because about 98% of PVP happening in this game is normals?

[Lelvannia]

Well if you are an ambassador for any of the other classes, I would say it doesn't bode well for you either. What's your toon names and server name? You talk an awfully big game. Put your money where your mouth is.

 

Nah, he's a PT bitter about his inability to counter Force Speed and wants sorcs nerfed rather than to L2P.

[Cretinus]

I posted this in a new topic but here it goes again: DPS sorc is currently BS. I made myself a jedi shadow and the difference is huge. It's like playing a short range sage/sorc with melee abiloities, stealth, twice the burst and twice the resilience against being onehitted. I can only advise all frustrated DPS sages/sorcs out there to try an assassin/shadow.

[TwitchWINs]

meh i have always thought sorcs were great when nobody else did, and when nobody believed me and still to this day just keeps saying "you noob carried by team or teams u play vs suck" w/e BS people use as an excuse because they cant play their class to its full potential. I have done great with the class in every patch i played it, and when RWZs came out i was our top dps almost every game with less deaths, damage taken and more off-healing(not because teams we play suck and dont focus the squishy sorc, but because i know how to kite. Wouldnt you focus a squishy azz sorcerer with a cocky name like Bestworld LOL). with all this being said you might think. Hmm does the competition on his server just suck? well yes most of it is bad but there has always been 2-3 decently competitive guilds with 1 on par with us all through out the ranked scene "dont panic"

 

Then you might say so he admits his server has some bad teams so that's why he can be "carried" with the sorcerer dps spec. Now what i have to say is, if my server is bad and im getting carried why are we in the top 3 rated pvp guilds on the pts along with nostrum and casual. oh yea he just gets carried still cuz sorcs are bad but yet every patch they take him on his sorc

 

This is not like a12 yr old saying "L2P" but srsly if you guys are going to attempt to play sorc please learn how to kite.

Edited March 18, 2013 by TwitchWINs

[Kindran]

This is not like a12 yr old saying "L2P" but srsly if you guys are going to attempt to play sorc please learn how to kite.

 

The problem is not that people do not know how to kite. It is that it is nearly impossible to kite with 2+ people on you as a dps spec.

 

Force speed? Prone to roots

Creeping Terror? single target root

Electrocute? single target stun

Whirlwind? single target mezz

Overload? very small knockback - decent when talented and even then its only good against melee

Bubble stun? Decent against melee

 

The best a Sorcerer can do is Electrocute 1 and WW the other, Force Speed away(with possible LoS options), and then overload when they get back onto the Sorcerer. After this both melee with be resolved cap and can only be rooted/slowed. Another problem is that while kiting we do terrible to 0 damage, so all you need to do to shut down a dps Sorcerer is sick a dps on them.

 

Comparing to other classes defensive's not including CC abilities

Operative? Vanish, Evasion

Sniper? Ballistic Shield, Entrench, Cover Pulse, Hold Position, Evasion

Assassin? Vanish, Force Shroud, Deflection, Force Speed

Sorcerer? Unnatural Preservation, Force Speed, Overload

Marauder? Cloak of Pain, Obfuscate, Force Camo, Undying Rage, Saber Ward

Juggernaut? Endure Pain, Invincible, Enraged Defense, Saber Ward

Powertech? Hydraulic Overrides, Energy Shield, Kolto Overload, Oil Slick

Mercenary? Jet Boost, Kolto Overload, Energy Shield

 

I may have missed a few but the bottom of the barrel goes to Operative, Mercenary, and Sorcerer. Operatives have a 100% get away free card and Mercenaries and a damage reduction. So I would rank it Operative > Mercenary > Sorcerer. If you want to include Static Barrier for Sorcerer's then it should be included on everyone as it can be put on anyone.

 

Summery? Sorcerers have the least and worse defensive CDs and they take the most damage. Their defensive's rely on staying away which really sucks and is nearly impossible in a large scale battle if anyone decides to target the Sorcerer.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Kindran

[TwitchWINs]

All thats being said is still acting like this is a 1v1 game LOL, just stop we know sorcs arent the best 1v1 class WE GET IT. i know it all my sorc friends know it and every1 who plays a sorc knows it but the fact of the matter is ur QQing about all this **** that doesnt matter in warzone or group pvp. Its not just your cooldowns but your teammates as well and the fact is, sorcs cooldowns kinda do suck but their short CD and in conjunction with a team and peels can aid you in escape from harm 9 times out of 10, and guess what IN 2.0 ITS DAM NEAR 10 OUR OF 10 because of gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay 10 sec bubble MUWAHAHAHAHAHA.

[Edonidd]

All thats being said is still acting like this is a 1v1 game LOL, just stop we know sorcs arent the best 1v1 class WE GET IT. i know it all my sorc friends know it and every1 who plays a sorc knows it but the fact of the matter is ur QQing about all this **** that doesnt matter in warzone or group pvp. Its not just your cooldowns but your teammates as well and the fact is, sorcs cooldowns kinda do suck but their short CD and in conjunction with a team and peels can aid you in escape from harm 9 times out of 10, and guess what IN 2.0 ITS DAM NEAR 10 OUR OF 10 because of gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay 10 sec bubble MUWAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

This just makes you sound retarded.

 

My Sorcerer is one of the best at 1 vs 1's. Any good Sins can beat me 1 on 1 obviously as they have all my same tools, and several AI don't have as well. A good Vengeance Jugg makes me want to cry. The best Carnage Mara's can beat me. But 1 vs 1 on live I have absolutely no complaints at all. On PTS we got weaker 1 vs 1, because they cut off our kiting abilities, especially in Madness.

 

My problem is in group fights. If you don't tab DoT, even if you are left alone the majority of the whole time, you still won't be very high on damage done. The only Sorc's I have seen that end up among the leaders in DPS are the ones who tab DoT everything in sight and Force Storm when they see 3 or more people standing near each other. Tab DoT'ing affliction is severely useless in this game right now. Force Storm is better for the green circle on the ground and herding stupid people than it is for actually doing damage.

 

When a Smash monkey leads DMG boards, you know he was spreading around 6-7k hits to multiple people, and probably quite a few executes of low HP players too. When a Pyro PT leads the damage boards you know he was hitting people over and over with Railshot probably pretty close to every 6 seconds. Snipers you know people stayed in Orbital Strike, or they got off a bunch of crit ambushes for 6-7k and probably a bunch of 5k followthroughs and takedowns too. Or a bunch of crit explosive probes popped by crit SoS or Culls. Sorcerers lead the damage and you know they did 4-500 damage at a time to a whole bunch of people. It's a whole different ballgame when other classes are hitting a whole order of magnitude harder than you are.

[TwitchWINs]

LOL a post like that and im the one whos retarded? all these people too scared to show anything in their signature. We know you are those few guys on each server that think their great and everyone else is just dumb yet none of the top guilds will have anything to do with you, in fact they laugh at you behind your back and in your case probably to your face.

 

If you were any good you would show either your name and or a guild you represent in your signature on the forums. I think if you have time to type 3-4 paragraphs in 1 forum response you can write 2-6 words in your signature and tell people who you are and who you represent. In your case probably just another no name try hard who will forever be laughed at by the people who know them on their server.

Edited March 18, 2013 by TwitchWINs

[Yeochins]

All thats being said is still acting like this is a 1v1 game LOL, just stop we know sorcs arent the best 1v1 class WE GET IT. i know it all my sorc friends know it and every1 who plays a sorc knows it but the fact of the matter is ur QQing about all this **** that doesnt matter in warzone or group pvp. Its not just your cooldowns but your teammates as well and the fact is, sorcs cooldowns kinda do suck but their short CD and in conjunction with a team and peels can aid you in escape from harm 9 times out of 10, and guess what IN 2.0 ITS DAM NEAR 10 OUR OF 10 because of gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay 10 sec bubble MUWAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

Clearly you only play a handful of classes, and I judge this by your skewed view.

 

If a class is not mechanically 1 versus 1 feasible it will not be considered in competitive play. You need the flexibility of having a DPS player guard the off-node. Furthermore there is nothing a Sorcerer brings utility wise (while DPS specced) that another DPS player can't do better - the same is still true in 2.0, although most people don't realize it because they're bad at PvP.

 

Every other DPS worth taking into competitive play has an AOE mez/stun allowing them to stall people at objectives more effectively. The Powertech/Vanguard has a taunt which is much more effective at peeling or keeping your healer alive. In fact it can be used to minimize damage on other DPS/tanks to stall at objectives better. The Marauder has the ability to boost everyones movement speed allowing for faster map-movement. The enemy pull ability (from assassins and powertechs) is soo incredibly useful it outshines the friendly pull by a landslide.

 

1. You can pull enemies away from your healer(s).
   
2. You can pull enemies into fire/acid pits
   
3. You can pull enemies away from the objectives (pull enemy ball carriers into the pit, sappers away from doors and nodes)
   
4. You can prevent people from running away (healers)
   

 

Not to mention stealth-scan (powertech) and stealth (assassin).

 

 

In every conceivable team-based metric a DPS sorcerer is inferior to other DPS classes (except mercenary).

[TwitchWINs]

You need the flexibility of having a DPS player guard the off-node.

 

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA i legit stopped reading after another no name no guild, WHO HASNT EVEN HEARD OF A NODE GUARD LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Edited March 18, 2013 by TwitchWINs

[Edonidd]

LOL a post like that and im the one whos retarded? all these people too scared to show anything in their signature. We know you are those few guys on each server that think their great and everyone else is just dumb yet none of the top guilds will have anything to do with you, in fact they laugh at you behind your back and in your case probably to your face.

 

If you were any good you would show either your name and or a guild you represent in your signature on the forums. I think if you have time to type 3-4 paragraphs in 1 forum response you can write 2-6 words in your signature and tell people who you are and who you represent. In your case probably just another no name try hard who will forever be laughed at by the people who know them on their server.

 

Will putting my name down make me worse at 1 vs 1's?

 

Or will it invalidate any of my posts? You can feel free to tell me which part of my response you disagree with. But know ahead of time that if you think Sorcerers are bad 1 vs 1 but good in a group fight, I have automatically lost some respect for you.

 

If you want to look me up on your <Put me in Coach> alt that is fine. I'm not trying to hide, I'm just lazy. I play on Pot5 and my main is my Sniper Edonid. My Sorcerer is retired to just 2-4 PuG WZ's a night for dailies. But if you want to see him when he's on, Vettath is his name. I'm not the best PvP player, and I have never made any statements that I am. I only have one hand, keyboard turn, and have the reaction times of a mid thirty year old that has always preferred turn based games. Not some kid who grew up playing twitch games. But at even I can see some of the strengths and weaknesses of the class.

[TwitchWINs]

alright good luck with your games and own all noobs infront of you my good sir!

[Luckeyduckey]

In simplicity, yes. Sorcerers are weak. /thread

[FodderofCannon]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA i legit stopped reading after another no name no guild, WHO HASNT EVEN HEARD OF A NODE GUARD LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

 

This guy is just at troll. Likely a PT or a Mara as a main. I have a Vanguard in recruit gear that can't be kited by any Sorc I have ever encountered.

 

He likely played a sorc with a tank and a healer covering his *** whole the game and thinks he proved something.

 

You don't have to be a ranked god of some uber leet guild to see class imbalance. In fact for balanced game design they would be the last people you would ask, since that is not the experience of the vast majority of the players. You would test it with average players. So stop arguing that somehow those opinions are the only ones that matter.

[Luckeyduckey]

This guy is just at troll. Likely a PT or a Mara as a main. I have a Vanguard in recruit gear that can't be kited by any Sorc I have ever encountered.

 

He likely played a sorc with a tank and a healer covering his *** whole the game and thinks he proved something.

 

You don't have to be a ranked god of some uber leet guild to see class imbalance. In fact for balanced game design they would be the last people you would ask, since that is not the experience of the vast majority of the players. You would test it with average players. So stop arguing that somehow those opinions are the only ones that matter.

 

When you hit someone for 5k, then swap targets and hit the next guy for 2.5k... you know ****'s real.

[Yeochins]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA i legit stopped reading after another no name no guild, WHO HASNT EVEN HEARD OF A NODE GUARD LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

 

This statement alone tells me you are:

 

1. Have not participated in Rated Warzones
   
2. Or participated in one but the team itself is nowhere near the top teams
   
3. Or Bastion itself is generally an unskilled server
   

 

Since (3) would be a broadly untrue statement, (1) or (2) is applicable. If you cant explain what it means to rotate when you need to cap a node then you obviously lack PvP skills or the ability and validity to comment on class balance. If you know what it means to rotate on offense then you would never be talking about being stuck in a situation where you have 1 versus 1 encounters where class balance makes or breaks the match.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Yeochins

[Edonidd]

This statement alone tells me you are:

 

1. Have not participated in Rated Warzones
   
2. Or participated in one but the team itself is nowhere near the top teams
   
3. Or Bastion itself is generally an unskilled server
   

 

Since (3) would be a broadly untrue statement, (1) or (2) is applicable. If you cant explain what it means to rotate when you need to cap a node then you obviously lack PvP skills or the ability and validity to comment on class balance. If you know what it means to rotate on offense then you would never be talking about being stuck in a situation where you have 1 versus 1 encounters where class balance makes or breaks the match.

 

I disagree with the guy on Sorcs being bad at 1 vs 1. I disagree with the guy on Sorcs being good in a group situation. And i owe him an apology because i was having a bad day, and was actually pretty rude in my first comment towards him.

 

And honestly I have never seen him play on Bastion, and i don't know if he was one of the guys that re-rolled on Pot5, or if I have ever played with him here.

 

But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. He is probably a 10x better player than I am if he can even make a Sorc work (he should play a sniper they do everything a sorc does, but do it without being broken) and he is the GM of one of the 4-5 guilds that is a legitimate Ranked team.

[Rincewend]

To be fair, I would suggest you watch Twitch's movies on youtube or atleast click on his tag. I by no means think Sorcs in the DPS roll is perfect (but they are not as far gone as Merc's).

 

But I do think we are one of the harder classes to play well, PVE or PVP. A good DPS sorc is a great tool but they are very, very rare. Not just the learning curve but also engine issues in this game. We are not a forgiving class one mistake (without support and we are dead in PVP).

 

Twitch I have to say good kiteing you got going on there, and love your intime pulls I would love to see what you key map is for pvp. Not many play full lightning but you are doing it and well. I know some will say you left out getting stomped (and I sure it happens) but it was a how to video and I think everyone in this game knows how to get stomped.

[JP_Legatus]

To be fair, I would suggest you watch Twitch's movies on youtube or atleast click on his tag. I by no means think Sorcs in the DPS roll is perfect (but they are not as far gone as Merc's).

 

But I do think we are one of the harder classes to play well, PVE or PVP. A good DPS sorc is a great tool but they are very, very rare. Not just the learning curve but also engine issues in this game. We are not a forgiving class one mistake (without support and we are dead in PVP).

 

Twitch I have to say good kiteing you got going on there, and love your intime pulls I would love to see what you key map is for pvp. Not many play full lightning but you are doing it and well. I know some will say you left out getting stomped (and I sure it happens) but it was a how to video and I think everyone in this game knows how to get stomped.

 

Your name is eerily similar to rincewind from ss.

[Rincewend]

Your name is eerily similar to rincewind from ss.

 

SS? when I registered someone had "Rincewind" but I try to keep it for most things a play (I know not very StarWars but than again I am not a RP).

 

Love the guild name by the way.

[Yeochins]

To be fair, I would suggest you watch Twitch's movies on youtube or atleast click on his tag. I by no means think Sorcs in the DPS roll is perfect (but they are not as far gone as Merc's).

 

But I do think we are one of the harder classes to play well, PVE or PVP. A good DPS sorc is a great tool but they are very, very rare. Not just the learning curve but also engine issues in this game. We are not a forgiving class one mistake (without support and we are dead in PVP).

 

Twitch I have to say good kiteing you got going on there, and love your intime pulls I would love to see what you key map is for pvp. Not many play full lightning but you are doing it and well. I know some will say you left out getting stomped (and I sure it happens) but it was a how to video and I think everyone in this game knows how to get stomped.

 

I have, and I do not believe there is anything there to merit showing skill. I saw a bunch of close-in DPS that used their trinkets far too early without a full resolve bar. Warriors who open with charge. General melee-DPS that does not know how to handle the bubble-backlash.

 

In other situations I see him generally unaware of his surroundings with tunnel-vision on who he's attempting to kill. He failed a sorcerer leap-frog over the first and second fire-pits. While he has the class kiting mechanics down, he has not demonstrated the Sorcerers ability to face competent opponents.

 

In all his duels I see critical mistakes being made by his opponents when it comes to dealing with a lightning-madness hybrid sorcerer.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Yeochins

[Rincewend]

I have, and I do not believe there is anything there to merit showing skill. I saw a bunch of close-in DPS that used their trinkets far too early without a full resolve bar. Warriors who open with charge. General melee-DPS that does not know how to handle the bubble-backlash.

 

In other situations I see him generally unaware of his surroundings with tunnel-vision on who he's attempting to kill. He failed a sorcerer leap-frog over the first and second fire-pits. While he has the class kiting mechanics down, he has not demonstrated the Sorcerers ability to face competent opponents.

 

In all his duels I see critical mistakes being made by his opponents when it comes to dealing with a lightning-madness hybrid sorcerer.

 

Ok Sorry than I guess I suck as a Sorc in pvp, I saw some good play in there. He re-spec'd from the start to end because I saw TB being cast in the first few shots. In anyevent I guess I will keep on working on my kiting.