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2.0 PvE DPS viability


Aeisthis

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Question for those of you on the test server: I know everything is still subject to change, but does it seem likely that either concealment or lethality will produce dps on-par with other classes during operation boss fights? What have they done to mitigate previous issues the specs had in pve?
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Question for those of you on the test server: I know everything is still subject to change, but does it seem likely that either concealment or lethality will produce dps on-par with other classes during operation boss fights? What have they done to mitigate previous issues the specs had in pve?

 

There were 2 issues with operative dps in pve: mobility and energy management. Both are resolved. Concealment and lethality dps are now pretty much on par with the other classes.

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There were 2 issues with operative dps in pve: mobility and energy management. Both are resolved. Concealment and lethality dps are now pretty much on par with the other classes.

 

Still feels a little low if you ask me.

 

But the mobility and power issues were resolved pretty handily. Still lacking a bit of survivability, since we'll get downed pretty quick under direct attack. DPS is better because we can keep attacking going longer, but our good attacks (shiv, lacerate, backstab) all still have cooldown that really make a rotation just feel clunky.

 

I still would like to see Acid Blade also apply on Sever Tendon, and for Meticulously Kept Blades to increase the Crit Damage on Lacerate/Collateral Strikes by 30%.

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4 issues operatives have in pve currently.

Mobility

Energy management

Sustained dps

survivability

 

In 2.0 The following has been fixed to a manageable level.

Mobility-The roll. I wish it was a little farther tho, 12 meters just doesn't seem that much when trying to "close the gap"

Energy management - Fixed with alacrity and our permanent stim boost talent, plus a lot of our talents not costing as much energy or refunding them.

 

What still needs to be fixed

DPS

Overall- The crit changes have hurt us as well as all the other classes due to no "auto crit" abilities. since most of our numbers have been in the form of crit/surge this will drastically lower our damage. The only reason we are "on par" with some of the other classes is due to the reliance on adrenals. Discounting the broken hybrid spec of powertechs, most other classes are parsing in the 2600-2700 range without the use of these adrenals where as we're fighting even with a perfect rotation with adrenals and proc/clickie relics to barely break 2.5k

 

 

Concealment- Sustained dps and the rather clunky rotation due to alacrities effect on the GCD and cool downs. Sure people are popping off a lot of lacerations now, but there's still the cool down on Shiv and Backstab.. Your guarenteed at least 6-8% alacrity as concealment. this lowers the gcd from 1.5 seconds, to just under .9 (visual eye test). using the current rotation, and an example of how clunky our rotation is, for sustained dps that we do on live you'll run into various "all my abilities are down and im at full energy" times where your like, what do I hit here?

Lot of people would say use overload shot, but the DPE right now on live is terrible and it continues this way in 2.0 (in my opinion). It almost feels as if they need to put in a talent that gives access to our hidden strike out of stealth.

 

Lethality- Front loaded burst dps. The sustained dps and the rotation of lethality is fluid, the only problem is, and this is mostly for pvp, is theirs no reason to use hidden strike now to open with dots not ticking on a sapped target. It's sap-dot-dot-EP- insert move here-cull. It's also more of a "cop out spec" when you compare it to our sniper counterparts who are doing even more damage with the same spec..

 

Survivability is needed in both specs especially in pvp. We are taken out of stealth even more now due to an increase in stealth detection in all classes across the board, the snipers new stealth detection boost while he sits in the corner where you can't come up to the side or behind him, and all the aoes/knockbacks that are present in almost all the other specs barring a few.

We are suppose to survive using our heals, yet no where in any of our two dps trees are ways we can proc an instant heal "on demand" like the other classes who can heal.. Yes they don't have stealth, but as stated above, that's negated by a lot of classes you see in warzones now and in 2.0 namely powertechs/derpsmashers/snipers.

 

This is all my opinion based on my testing on the pts in both pve and pvp.. so take it what you will.

 

Least we aren't as bad off as dps assassins! they got the shaft!

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There were 2 issues with operative dps in pve: mobility and energy management. Both are resolved. Concealment and lethality dps are now pretty much on par with the other classes.

 

I don't think Concealment ever has to be honest, and Lethality wasn't really an issue for Operations as far as I'm aware. Meh I'll still just respec heals for PvE if it's needed.

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We are suppose to survive using our heals, yet no where in any of our two dps trees are ways we can proc an instant heal "on demand" like the other classes who can heal..

There is the new lethality talent, quickening that can proc free instant kolto infusions. Sadly it procs only at a 30% chance and with exfiltrate too, wouldn't be very efficient to be rolling around all the time.

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Overall- The crit changes have hurt us as well as all the other classes due to no "auto crit" abilities. since most of our numbers have been in the form of crit/surge this will drastically lower our damage. The only reason we are "on par" with some of the other classes is due to the reliance on adrenals. Discounting the broken hybrid spec of powertechs, most other classes are parsing in the 2600-2700 range without the use of these adrenals where as we're fighting even with a perfect rotation with adrenals and proc/clickie relics to barely break 2.5k

 

Yeah. No.

 

The following are the classes who have broken into 2600-2700dps without a messed up hybrid and held it for 5 mins:

 

Troopers (both)

Knights (Sentinels)

Gunslinger

 

Note that none of them are using autocrit builds for it. Crit screw everyone equally and the autocrit builds don't even get on the same chart as these straight builds because they do not hit hard enough on everything else.

 

I'd love to see the parses of "most" classes being able to do 2600-2700dps without being in a pimped out PTS character with biochem and augments. I collect them you see and I've not seen these ones you speak of.

 

 

For the record, high 2400 and low 2500 is a good dummy parse for those but only exceptional parses are listed. Might be crit lucky, proc lucky but that is how the listing works and the more people that push the higher the best parse becomes.

 

Very very few players are posting parses to push the dps listing of operatives. So what you see are parses for them that have hardly been challenged at all.

Edited by Gyronamics
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Currently, my raid is not allowing certain roles into the group with the current state of the PTS. Those are Assassin dps, Merc dps, and Op dps.

 

Assassin dps is still quite low compared to everyone else and Assassin tanks are really not too far behind on their damage output.

 

Merc dps are currently having heat issues, although one of my raid members has found a crazy rotation that works, but still pulls below everyone else.

 

Last, but not least, is Op dps. I have personally ran both Concealment and Lethality in Hard Mode Scum and Villiany and both perform below average. Similar to numbers stated previously in this thread, the most you can pull is about 2400, if you get lucky, while other dps are pulling 2600+ no problem.

 

Jugg dps got quite a large boost and they are now the bottem end, or last ditch spec, of dps that you would bring to an operation. They can pull reasonable numbers, not anything a Powertech, Sorc, Mara, or Sniper are pulling, but they are better than Op dps.

 

With my current experiences with dps on the PTS, I would rate the following from best to worst to bring to an operation:

 

Powertech, Sorcerer, Marauder, Sniper, (gap), Juggernaut, (bigger gap), Mercenary, Assassin, Operative

 

I would suggest finding another class for PvE dps. If you like PvP, Concealment is not too bad.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I think before people start deciding what class to go with based on anecdotal stories or dummy-based parses...great double entendre there. Anyway here is a link to a great article that discusses the upcoming DPS changes and offers some context as to how to interpret DPS numbers from dummy parses.

 

http://www.madsithassassin.com/2013/03/assassin-developer-interview.html

 

As an aside, I get so sick of these min-maxxing posts that discuss who can and cannot be in a raid...last time I checked this is still a game. None of us are being sponsored to play or derive some income from it. /soapbox

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I think before people start deciding what class to go with based on anecdotal stories or dummy-based parses...great double entendre there. Anyway here is a link to a great article that discusses the upcoming DPS changes and offers some context as to how to interpret DPS numbers from dummy parses.

 

http://www.madsithassassin.com/2013/03/assassin-developer-interview.html

 

As an aside, I get so sick of these min-maxxing posts that discuss who can and cannot be in a raid...last time I checked this is still a game. None of us are being sponsored to play or derive some income from it. /soapbox

 

Its more then just a min maxing thing imo. Its BW not knowing how or not willing to put other classes on the same lvl as others. Ever since 1.2 our rotation in clunky and needs a resigned. I do not play on the PTS but with alacrity it seems like it will be even worse. Then you start looking at even in 2.0 being at best 7% behind other classes. It just looks like BW does not know what they are doing with balance or they intend it this way.

 

There is other things that really make me question if they know their program. Like if you pvp and you are still in combat after you die. Or even now your UI can totally get screwed up in zoning for no reason and you have to reset it by control U twice. This should not happen at all at this point in the game. This is going on for over a year and nothing has gotten better. With flaws like these what else is going on that we do not see in dmg. That being said, i have more faith in twosixnineone post and tests then i do with the game designers and their interviews.

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I was sent a PM from the officer's of my guild stating they strongly advise if I want to get in on Ops runs that I re-roll a new Sniper or a Bounty Hunter - that my IA dps main would not be welcome.

Why can't this company make all classes viable with Ops? I don't understand why I get left out because I want to play a burst-dps type stealth class. This reminds me of SWG where no one would want a spy in their group for a heroic instance run.

Just fed up with this game and this exclusivity to where Ops leaders only want dps freaks.

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I was sent a PM from the officer's of my guild stating they strongly advise if I want to get in on Ops runs that I re-roll a new Sniper or a Bounty Hunter - that my IA dps main would not be welcome.

Why can't this company make all classes viable with Ops? I don't understand why I get left out because I want to play a burst-dps type stealth class. This reminds me of SWG where no one would want a spy in their group for a heroic instance run.

Just fed up with this game and this exclusivity to where Ops leaders only want dps freaks.

 

This is the statement that a lot of us operatives are getting, yet bioware continues to ignore us and claim that "oh test dummies are wrong because of lack of armor pen debuffs". If the general consensus of a community is the same, then why not make changes based on people who play the game unbiast of a developmental perspective...

 

At the very least they should have given us some form of utility if they were going to ignore our dps concerns.

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I just wanted to make my OP my new main but is this a viable and good class for +50 in PvE / PvP regarding to damage?

 

For me lethality seems to be a quite good tree but... I don't know.

 

I like healing as OP but I want to make DPS, too... my other class would be PyroTech and it seems like the PT is in dmg-ways a bit better "developed".

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