another look at P2W

[the_lost_deciple]

Well i know that P2W is a general hot topic and viewed as no go by most. I would like to share my view on it and ask for your take on it.

Let me point out one thing first. I am against any piece of gear or ability in a potential P2W section of the CM which would effect PVP. Here players have worked hard to acquire their skill and gear sets and should be able to enjoy the fruits of this hard work.

I am a noob to MMO and swtor is the first one for me. I am in contact with several other noob players. They have mainly single player RPG background and some are quite old already. So they struggle with this game. The reasons are not really relevant, may it be lack of time, skill, whatever. They came over to play the storyline and do their own thing. The will not show up in PVP and not join guilds, because their schedule does not allow for this type of committment.

 

Lets say now, those type of very casual players would like to buy something boosting their stats in PVE to make leveling faster and reduce grinding.

 

I would not mind to put high stat armor or weapons (even near god mode stuff) up for sale in the CM, with one very clear restriction. If the PVP flag goes up or the player is joining any team for group content, the stat boost MUST be removed. By doing that, they could run through their storyline as fast as they desire or their time allows, without breaking the game mechanics for group play and PVP.

 

What do you think here?

[TheBBP]

So, you don't want P2W, except when it suits you? Edited March 5, 2013 by TheBBP

[Keffeine]

Thanks for starting the topic OP.

 

Personally I abhor the idea of P2W. It's like legitimized cheating: you take the challenge (and the fun) out of the game. What's the point of playing a game if you can simply pay your way out of obeying the rules?

 

That said, I do see value in helping newer players along in the game. That's why I think the level 30 gear sets are okay for that aspect: they give great stat boosts, good looks, while being almost wholly irrelevant at level 50, which is where all the true 'winning' is done.

 

I don't think anything should be added for 50/55s. You shouldn't be able to buy a Legendary Lightsaber that has like level 79 mods. But for the lowbies, take whatever you need. The game is already easy enough that extra help can't really be considered 'cheating'.

[Ailie]

I wouldn't go so far as to say cheating, but yes it does take a lot of the challenge out of the game. I've played many others where the only way to truly min/max your stats was to spend real money, and it made a heck of a lot of difference between the have's and have not's to the point where there was no point playing if you weren't going to invest a considerable amount of money into it.

 

If that's the model a game wanted to use, then honestly that's entirely up to them. What I don't like is that often games like these are Free 2 Play with 'optional' cash shops that really aren't that optional. That to me, is where it's cheating.

 

As for SWTOR though, I really don't see much of what they have as P2W. Everything is available in the game, and little can influence PvP except the cartel crystals at low level, but you can easily buy those with credits that you grind yourself.

[NigeldeJ]

Why would they even play this game, if the only thing they're gonna do is run through their story? IMHO, if you are only gonna play this game for the story, you should take it easy, not rush things.

[mike_is_valid]

Well if they want to run around and kill things with one hit or a wave of their hand, i do not mind. Let them play in any way they like. BUT if it affects my play in any way i am against it. So if you say PVE only, i am OK with it. But even here should be a limit. They can not be made strong enough to kill bosses which would typically require a full raid party. The loot they could possibly make would change the game balance too much.

[shadowrouge]

WOW just WOW. There should be NO P2W in the game period. What makes PVP better than PVE? As a raider I dont want given for money items that people can buy and jump right into a ops group not know WTH they are doing just because they bought gear and steam rolled their way to 50 with out learning their class.

 

If you want to get the good gear grind it like very one else. Work your way to lvl 50 do your dailies and run FPs just like every one else. Other wise its P2W for EVERY THING including PVP if your going to add it for PVE.

[Stoofa]

I can sum up entirely my position on P2W in just a few words. If this is ever introduced, if there is a way to buy high-end gear and items or the only way to gain some high-end items is with real money I shall quit the game immediately.

No waiting to see how it goes, no "wait and see". It would be an immediate cancel.

 

Now I know one person leaving would mean nothing to BW. But I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one with this opinion.

[AsheraII]

Well i know that P2W is a general hot topic and viewed as no go by most. I would like to share my view on it and ask for your take on it.

Let me point out one thing first. I am against any piece of gear or ability in a potential P2W section of the CM which would effect PVP. Here players have worked hard to acquire their skill and gear sets and should be able to enjoy the fruits of this hard work.

I am a noob to MMO and swtor is the first one for me. I am in contact with several other noob players. They have mainly single player RPG background and some are quite old already. So they struggle with this game. The reasons are not really relevant, may it be lack of time, skill, whatever. They came over to play the storyline and do their own thing. The will not show up in PVP and not join guilds, because their schedule does not allow for this type of committment.

 

Lets say now, those type of very casual players would like to buy something boosting their stats in PVE to make leveling faster and reduce grinding.

 

I would not mind to put high stat armor or weapons (even near god mode stuff) up for sale in the CM, with one very clear restriction. If the PVP flag goes up or the player is joining any team for group content, the stat boost MUST be removed. By doing that, they could run through their storyline as fast as they desire or their time allows, without breaking the game mechanics for group play and PVP.

 

What do you think here?

Soooo it's okay to P2W your way through one content type, but not okay to P2W your way through another content type? Right..

[Devlonir]

I agree being able to buy BiS gear without any ingame effort is the best way to define P2W. But I do have a quick question concerning this:

Would you consider buying a Bind on Pickup item that you already earned on one character, for one of your alts or companions through Legacy as P2W?

Or what about buying an item that is 1 tier behind what you already earned?

 

You did the ingame work to get the first copy of the item, is it really P2W to also be able to get the same level of items for your alt without the time investment?

 

I am honestly torn between defining those things as P2W and not just paying for the convenience of not having to repeat the same process on an alt. Especially considering how tiers of gear keep moving forward in stats anyway. What you buy for an alt now, will be outdated for endgame a few months from now. So, instead of forcing you to keep grinding all your alts for each tier of content, make it possible to trade the 2nd time you need to invest time in gearing for money. If you already have a main with that level of gear, what are you really 'winning' besides the flexibility of having multiple characters on similar gear levels?

[AlaricSevGirl]

I agree that pay 2 win is a huge no no. There is no way I'd stay with the game if they went p2w. I like the CM and the adaptive armor but that is cosmetic, it's like buying custom armor, I still have to add armoring, mods and enhancements. Also the legacy enhancements are cosmetic. The point of grinding this game is to learn your skill set. Without the grinding, you don't get that knowledge. Edited March 5, 2013 by AlaricSevGirl

[CinderBane]

Two problems occurred to me in the short time it took to read your post. Keep in mind how fast these thoughts occurred as I'm sure that if I put more effort into it I would come up with other problems with this suggestion.

 

1st - Even with the PVE only limitation, implemented perfectly (with no bugs - and that's a big if when it comes to BW and this game), you would be handing the all-time griefing tool out to anyone who wanted to grief. Imagine that tool in the hands of some of the childish players in this game (and by childish I'm not defining a specific age as we all know how childish some of the adults in this game are). You would see these griefers camping out entire areas, insta-killing any and all mobs for the sole purpose of depriving other players of the mobs they need to complete quests. Frightening.

 

2nd - Such a tool would completely nose-dive the economy, as anyone who got their hands on it could rack up endless credits by just one-shotting mobs for loot. If the economy goes, any MMO (including this one) that is dependant on said economy will die a quick death.

 

If all you're interested in is the storylines, I suggest you look the movies up on youtube. You can probably find every movie for every storyline, and simply play them out like a movie.

 

Other than that, although this idea has good intentions, it would quickly destroy what's left of this game.

 

-Cinder

[TheNahash]

So they struggle with this game. The reasons are not really relevant, may it be lack of time, skill, whatever. They came over to play the storyline and do their own thing. The will not show up in PVP and not join guilds, because their schedule does not allow for this type of committment.

 

I am curious as to why they struggle with this game.

This is one of the few MMOs I actually spent more than 1 month playing and I found it quite easy. Some of the terminology needs some getting used to perhaps if you're not an MMO veteran, but other than that there was nothing in this game that as a single-player RPG fan myself, I had trouble with.

 

The class story is the main focus for each class, that is true, but honestly if you're playing the game just for the story, it's like reading a movie or a TV show's synopsis and believing you know everything about it because you know the main plot.

 

Lets say now, those type of very casual players would like to buy something boosting their stats in PVE to make leveling faster and reduce grinding.

 

There are already experience boosts and armor you can buy for Cartel Coins.

 

I would not mind to put high stat armor or weapons (even near god mode stuff) up for sale in the CM, with one very clear restriction. If the PVP flag goes up or the player is joining any team for group content, the stat boost MUST be removed.

 

Here's the thing: That's EXACTLY why P2W is bad for games and especially MMOs.

 

So let's say you get that "god mode" armor from the CM.

 

-What are the chances you'll be grouping up with people for Heroics and Flashpoints?

You won't be getting anything out of it, you won't need them and therefore people will queue less and the game will become very single-player focused (and I don't think it needs to be any more single-player focued than it already is)

 

-What are the chances you'll be using anything of what the crafters are putting on the GTN?

You won't need anything. You'll be God. And they will not be able to make credits, therefore the entire economy would either collapse or be entirely dependent on cartel market items.

 

But most importantly, I think that you, as a video game fan, are making a huge mistake by even considering this a good idea:

Games are supposed to be fun. We like them because they are challenging and because we have to try to beat them.

Strip them of any difficulty whatsoever and they become interactive movies, where mobs die instantly and you get tired of one-shotting everything after a couple of days.

 

Also, I don't get why people use free time as a serious argument, anymore.

If you are only interested in the class stories, there is no reason why you shouldn't go Preferred and just finish it whenever you can, whether that is in 2 weeks or in 1 year.

 

No one's forcing you to finish your class quests in a specific amount of time. Just because some people think it's "pro" to reach the level cap as fast as possible, doesn't mean it's right.

 

Overall, I kinda get where you're coming from, but this is a very, very bad idea, OP.

[slafko]

What do you think here?

 

I think you're not making any sense. Firstly, that comment about skill is pvp is what gave you away. Secondly, the gear system in SWTOR is rather bad. Best way to go about the gear would be one gear for both pve and pve. But that's not gonna happen since it will lessen the grind and time we play.

[Tachenko_Yuri]

You people do not know the half of it?

 

No, you people, by claiming there is P2W status in TOR don't know a tenth of it.

 

Cartel market armor which actually has mods in it goes as far as level 43, which gets WAY outphased by still F.R.E.E. Tionese gear after class storyline.

 

All of the cartel market is for a not-endgame boost, and looks.

 

And the crystals which are the only possible boosts are level 56 grade. Stuff which comes with columi-grade weaponry.

 

Besides? Just about EVERYTHING, from The Cartel Pack items ( or the actual packs ) to the actual direct-buy armor can be found in the GTN, so get in there, grind your credits and buy whatever stuff you see fit for your quest line.

 

and stop yapping.

[Levity]

So you are saying "I don't give two ****en donkies about the pve crowd who would be pissed about seeing this."

Really? And you think it just takes no time to acquire the end game pve armor?

Sigh.

[DarthTHC]

So basically you're asking for what is called "god mode" in single-player games?

 

Technically this might be feasible... IF it were enabled only when a companion were out or it put the character into his very own instance so he couldn't grief others and it prevented anyone in "god mode" from entering any flash points or operations or war zones.

 

Could EA make bank off it? EA probably couldn't even make enough to cover development costs.

 

Seriously, if anyone is struggling with the "challenge" of the PvE game, they need to go play Lego Star Wars or something. It's not challenging. As in, it's not hard at all.

[Journeyer]

Bioware has already addressed this, and in a more elegant way, I think.

 

They have provided an *enormous* number of XP points, so if the leveling is a challenge, you can do side quests (which have their own faction and local stories) and space missions or daily PvP missions (only have to do a few Warzones to level quickly). You get lots of options to over-level for content, and the game becomes very easy when over-leveled. (And in artifact-quality gear, with a companion, at-level stuff is already quite easy).

 

For end-game story continuation, they've taken story mode Ops out of the progression line, allowing anyone in Columi-grade gear can take on all of the game's Operations. (And since hard-mode flashpoints--which are very doable in a pick-up group--drop Columi gear and higher, getting geared is no problem either, now).

 

The game has added a casual, pick-up-and-play track, while maintaining a very challenging, coordination-heavy track. I don't think they need any sort of ludicrously over-powered gear at this point.

[Bojangle]

@OP I think your P2W definition and others P2W definition are different. To me, P2W means you can buy your way to the top gear/end game stuff without needing to work for it. I personally don't consider buying gear that helps you level as P2W because most can solo level to max and I don't see how that hurts anyone. But come to end game stuff then yes, that is P2W and lame. Look at GW2. You can just buy gems and get all the high end stuff you need. Horrible game anyways.

 

In a way, WoW does it with BOA items which is just good for leveling and granted you don't pay real money for it but it is a good system and I don't see anything wrong with it. You still need to level and granted it will make it easier, but it isn't like it takes you from lvl 1 to max in a few hours.

 

That is just my opinion. Either way though leveling is friggin easy in ALL the mmo's out right now. It doesn't take all that long, even if you are a casual. You can even solo 1-max on all the games out too.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Bojangle