Gyronamics Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) Commandos And Mercenaries. Highest PTS parse so far: 2513 DPS My setup in my parses:Fully augmented in 22 Reflex L55 personal ship dummy L52 Reflex Stim Rakata Adrenal DG Click & Proc relics No Armour Debuff (while in Assault) 99.97% accuracy, rest in surge, 203 in crit 3/10/33 ASSAULT 5/36/5 GUNNERY Here are DPS numbers as parsed by me, a very competent heavily geared Commando. Relics: DG proc (internal or kinetic) DG click power. Adrenal: Rakata power Stim: Nano-Infused 154 aim 63 power Dummy: Level 55 personal ship dummy, today updated to level 55. Gunnery / (Arsenal) @ 2366 dps http://www.torparse.com/a/148003/time/1362052408/1362052802/0/Damage+Dealt Assault / (Pyrotech) @ 2333 dps http://www.torparse.com/a/147776/time/1362036937/1362037534/0/Damage+Dealt In my opinion on a dummy they will parse identically or close enough for no one to give a dam. If an armour debuff is on the target then Assault will gain ~4-5% more total damage (by my calculations) which would be another 100dps. There are drawbacks to Assault because as I've said before it's a compromised tree so it's not a clear cut decision. ~~~ I still strongly dislike the lack of talents in Assault that benefit casting. Cell bonus changed from +3% tech to +6% ranged for example but all the bonuses to casting require many points in Gunnery. Assault also hugely lacks defensive abilities for PVE and is rigged to the teeth with excessive PVP abilities many of which I find incredibly naff even for PVP, let alone the wasted points for PVE. Ammo control is very smooth in this new set up. You have two 1.5m escapes that allow ammo overloading and recovery as well as the ammo regen from HiB procs. It all fits well into the Assault priority system. ~~~ Gunnery already had everything for a solid build. Gained no new mechanic but gained a TON of defensive boosts. Diversion absorbs the next tech/force hit for example.... Boss enrage on you? Oh ya missed me... Energy Redoubt allows you to absorb passively about 850 damage every 20 seconds Get hit and Shield CD is lowered by 3s each time. That's all on top of the 5% Charged Barrier and 2% extra healing taken which Gunnery had before. We all get HTL but Gunnery gets 4 more seconds of it so it can be up 33% of the time. Very important to note, ammo control in Gunnery is VERY strict now. You have no free HiB, instead it's half cost. You have no 1.5m CD on Recharge Cells, its 2.0m Overload your ammo too much and you have very little to save you from chain spamming default attack til you're back up again. ~~~ In a nutshell: Assault: Potentially the best commando DPS with good ammo control. Gunnery: Very tough DPS with paranoia about ammo management. Thus ends my review. Edited March 1, 2013 by Gyronamics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Yeah I REALLY don't like how tight ammo management is on gunnery now. If our damage potential was higher it might be ok, but we have to push just go get within shouting distance of other DPS, which means the chances of making a mistake, or just getting unlucky with Curtain of Fire procs, and then being forced to spam hammer shot becomes quite real. I can't stress that last bit enough. Curtain of Fire procs are actually a huge contributor to good ammo control because they're essentially ammo neutral in top tier regen. When you get a long streak without them not only is your DPS lowered because of less Full Autos, you're ammo management gets even worse and you have to hammer shot to compensate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMightyKnight Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 My best so far (the last one): http://www.torparse.com/a/148314 2391 dps overall, 2435 with last attack For me this was as close to perfect as i can get. Perfect Curtain of Fire procs, no screwups in my rotations, exo stims, adrenals, augments, dreadguard relics, datacrons... everything one can think of. This is pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 Pathetic because...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeters Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) Well, this isn't exactly what I was wanting to hear. My gunslinger's looking more tempting by the minute -_- Pathetic because...? Because other classes are, by all accounts, reliably pulling somewhere in the region of 400+ dps more. If gunnery dps is that far behind even when everything procs correctly, that's a pretty frustrating difference. Edited February 28, 2013 by Bleeters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 Post the parses that make you see 2400 as weak please. I've seen well over 3k parses, doesn't mean I put much weight on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Also, I didn't say this earlier but both trees need to be fleshed out with more PVE talents so that you can get to top tier without taking a PVP survivability talent if you don't want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 While you're looking for those legit parses which make 2400 look weak you can recalibrate what commandos do to 2500. http://www.torparse.com/a/148785 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying-Brian Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 There is bad symmetry for gunnery commandos now because of the ammo management issues. The DPS check on the new puzzle boss on S&V (before the nerf this week) was absolutely brutal on my gunnery commando and I wasn't able to recover enough to really get back into the higher dps range until the final phase with the boss after the 4 rows of droids. After I finish getting the new stim and augments made, I am going to try to parse the difference between going full on with the new set bonus and trying it out using denova armorings with the old set bonus, just to see the ammo management difference it makes. Right now I'm not in a happy place being towards the bottom of the DPS food chain in pve on my commando and merc, since those are my two mains. And as it has been pointed out, being forced to take pvp skills that offer no use to me, just to get high enough in the skill tree to get demo round back. Gyro I know you're showing what an assault commando can do, but I don't consider that an option for me. If I were to go that route, I would just switch to a vanguard/powertech and get the full benefit of that class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeckoOBac Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Uhm how the hell do you manage to push higher dps with assault (and without plastique as well) than gunnery I tried that, watching at the log of your rotation, but I basically do some 150 dps less than gunnery. Admittedly, I basically never play assault in pve, but stil... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 While you're looking for those legit parses which make 2400 look weak you can recalibrate what commandos do to 2500. http://www.torparse.com/a/148785 That's a really nice parse, I think that will help me out a lot -- I've been barekly pushing 2200 on my Commando on the PTS Do you really think the ~3000 dps Vanguard / Powertech parses are faked? Or am I misunderstanding you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaceen Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 That's a really nice parse, I think that will help me out a lot -- I've been barekly pushing 2200 on my Commando on the PTS Do you really think the ~3000 dps Vanguard / Powertech parses are faked? Or am I misunderstanding you? 3k were not faked, but it's done with a very broken hybrid spec that will most likely be nerfed before 2.0 hits live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Alot of those 3k parses were done on ship dummies, which were level 50, not the mk 5 dummy on the fleet.. 2500 DPS is very good on the fleet dummy, but not many did those parses because of lag issues and wait time to get the dummy. So they did it on their ships then posted those parses. I would hope they do 500 more DPS on a target 5 levels under them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMightyKnight Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) While you're looking for those legit parses which make 2400 look weak you can recalibrate what commandos do to 2500. http://www.torparse.com/a/148785 Since PVP spec does alright those playing with the dedicated PVE tree should just suck it up? Good one. /sarcasm It really blows my mind that one could actually manage to make the PVP tree more competetive than the PVE tree for PVE. Edited March 1, 2013 by AMightyKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishihadaname Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Quick question, could someone tell me what i'm doing wrong here? I attempted doing the same sort of parse on the pts using the stock gear though and I got an embarrassing 1668 dps total. I'm following the standard, and stupidly simple, gunnery rotation, but I hear claims about supposed 2.0k parses in the same gear so i'm clearly missing something. http://www.torparse.com/a/149336 Gearwise I have 2 warhero power relics, no augs, no stim, no adrenal. I swallowed my pride and used a cannon for this parse. Only reason I don't have my adrenal and stim is because I forgot to stock up before transfering and now there are none available. Is that the main issue here? On live I can scratch 2k, which is decent, but I'm clearly missing something in either my gear or my rotation with these new changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 While you're looking for those legit parses which make 2400 look weak you can recalibrate what commandos do to 2500. http://www.torparse.com/a/148785 Do you also run Gunnery? Do you know anyone who parses decently with that spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) Gunnery is pretty unforgiving now. It has less regen than it did due to lack of a free HiB and Recharge Cells being passed to Assault who in turn passed a survivability talent (Reflexive Shield) to Gunnery. Thus leaving Assault with better ammo regen but naff all survivability talents in PVE And Gunnery with all the good PVE survivabilty talents and worse regen. Uhm how the hell do you manage to push higher dps with assault (and without plastique as well) than gunnery I tried that, watching at the log of your rotation, but I basically do some 150 dps less than gunnery. Admittedly, I basically never play assault in pve, but stil... I've been assault since beta but it doesn't take that long to get the rough idea of it. I overload my ammo bar every time I have an escape coming up. Something Gunnery does very very little of and currently is even less able to. By that I mean: HiB proc which will be a 0 cost GCD + 8 energy cells = ~13 cells more after each use Reserve Powercell always in combo with Plasma Grenade + Electronet = 0 cost 2xGCD / ~10 more cells Recharge Cells talented in Medic = 66 energy cells + 10% alacrity (+ HiB proc for huge ammo recovery) If you don't overload your ammo BEFORE these predictable ammo regen moments you end up overflowing your max ammo and everything over max turns into 0 dmg. The only fixed piece is Reserve Powercell + Plasma Grenade + Electronet = fire off every 1m30s Everything else fits into a priority of: Ammo Control > Flame Debuff > Other Damage Edited March 1, 2013 by Gyronamics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeckoOBac Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Hm weird, it seems to me that's what I did, and I did manage to get a very stable dps after a while, having checked your rotation I was going for reserve + plasma + electro net on cd like you did. I was still parsing 150 dps less than gunnery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 Do you have the same gear/stim/adrenal/augments ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeckoOBac Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Do you have the same gear/stim/adrenal/augments ? I'm not comparing it to your results, I'm comparing to mine. My gunnery results are around 2100 dps, which is compatible with your result, considering gear/biochem differences. My assault results though are 1950 dps, not higher than gunnery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeckoOBac Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) Quick question, could someone tell me what i'm doing wrong here? I attempted doing the same sort of parse on the pts using the stock gear though and I got an embarrassing 1668 dps total. I'm following the standard, and stupidly simple, gunnery rotation, but I hear claims about supposed 2.0k parses in the same gear so i'm clearly missing something. http://www.torparse.com/a/149336 Gearwise I have 2 warhero power relics, no augs, no stim, no adrenal. I swallowed my pride and used a cannon for this parse. Only reason I don't have my adrenal and stim is because I forgot to stock up before transfering and now there are none available. Is that the main issue here? On live I can scratch 2k, which is decent, but I'm clearly missing something in either my gear or my rotation with these new changes. One thing for sure: you're parsing on the fleet dummy. That means you're losing APM, so dps in practice. Another thing is: you're losing almost 10% damage due to lack of accuracy, so rework the arkanian set to get to 99.97 accuracy. For gunnery I noticed that full power or balance power crit doesn't make much of a difference, so you're free to do either. Surge and alacrity are not big issues since by the time you're done with accuracy you won't have many points left there to spend. I'd suggest either balance or full surge. Full alacrity will make you use hammer shot more than you'd like. This is my gunnery parse, with reworked arkanian, not augmented, exo stim no adrenals, very crappy relics. Ship dummy: http://www.torparse.com/a/146752/time/1361989490/1361989991/0/Damage+Dealt Edited March 1, 2013 by GeckoOBac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) Your APM is 28 and mine is 36 on gunnery parse. Try changing your ability queue to 1s, I feel it helps especially if playing a US server from EU. Edited March 1, 2013 by Gyronamics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeckoOBac Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Your APM is 28 and mine is 36 on gunnery parse. Try changing your ability queue to 1s, I feel it helps especially if playing a US server from EU. IIRC, it was. I also didn't have any alacrity on gear, so a small difference is to be expected. I was also messing around a bit in that parse, I can probably do better, but like I said, given the difference in gear I feel the difference in end dps is pretty much right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaceen Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Since PVP spec does alright those playing with the dedicated PVE tree should just suck it up? Good one. /sarcasm It really blows my mind that one could actually manage to make the PVP tree more competetive than the PVE tree for PVE. saying the gunnery is a pve spec while assault is a pvp spec is a misnomer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) saying the gunnery is a pve spec while assault is a pvp spec is a misnomer Gunnery has mostly cast-time and channeled abilities that can be interrupted and requires a lot of standing still. Assault has mostly instant cast abilities that can be done on the move. I think it's fair to describe one as PvE-friendly and the other as PvP-friendly. Edited March 1, 2013 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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