Switching between advanced classes

[Father_Jerusalem]

I don't see any reason at all why you can't switch ACs or respec whenever. It's so weird how people in MMO's are obsessed with what other people do with their characters.

 

So, like, in WoW if I get bored of levelling my Rogue, I can just click a button and switch him over to a Mage? Wow, I know I quit a while ago, but I didn't know what was a new feature...

 

Oh wait. It's not. And that's exactly the same as what you're asking for. You pick your class. You stick with your class. Or you reroll. It's not rocket surgery, for chrissakes.

[Friendzie]

I don't think everyone realizes that the different advanced classes are supposed to be totally different classes with their own unique skill trees and abilities. You only share some basic skills with players of another advanced class of the same origins. Asking for the ability to respec it to a different advanced class would be like a rogue in WoW wanting to respec as a warrior or something, in terms of gameplay. They are both melee with basic melee abilities, but play very differently.

 

The only argument to be made for respeccing the advanced class would be if you could do it within a level or two of picking to account for player mistakes. I don't see how this is a high concern for Bioware, though. It's not like the class you picked it unplayable. Heck, you might even like it more than the one you planned.

[Runeshard]

So, like, in WoW if I get bored of levelling my Rogue, I can just click a button and switch him over to a Mage? Wow, I know I quit a while ago, but I didn't know what was a new feature...

 

Oh wait. It's not. And that's exactly the same as what you're asking for. You pick your class. You stick with your class. Or you reroll. It's not rocket surgery, for chrissakes.

It's not the same, the rogue and the mage don't share the same 10 starter levels, class story (both beofre and anfter the choice is made), companions, ship etc etc. I have yet to see a valid reason why a one time, level limited option to change your AC shouldn't be included.

[Runeshard]

This statement is a lie.

 

You were given a long speech explaining how important this decision is, and that it is irreversible.

 

If you chose to simply spacebar through and mindlessly clik the warning popup boxes that again reiterated that the choice was irreversible, then that's your own failure to assimilate the information given.

Did you watch the video linked to in the OP? Show me where it says it's irreversible. I thought it said that too at first and told the OP that he was indeed wrong, when I was given proof that I was wrong I admitted to that fact. Please if you can find where in that video, which has been conformid is the same a sthe current one, there is such a statement please tell me, I've looked through it three times now and can find none.

[Rhinoplat]

It's not the same, the rogue and the mage don't share the same 10 starter levels, class story (both beofre and anfter the choice is made), companions, ship etc etc. I have yet to see a valid reason why a one time, level limited option to change your AC shouldn't be included.

 

Get away from the notion that they share anything. That will make it easier for you to separate the AC's as they should be seen.

 

However.........One great reason they share the first 10 levels is for the ease of making the game. It's easier and more cost effective to use the same content over and over instead of creating new content for every little thing.

 

You could ask why am I getting the same missions on a BH as I get on my Op? The voice overs are different, but the actual quest mechanics are the same. Reason: it is cost effective. BioWare found a way to effectively cut costs, in a way that many game companies have done in the past.

 

Your rogue and mage do share some similar traits if they are the same race, so why not let them change because they are the same race?

[Bendial]

Eh, it's a really, really stupid mechanic that will probably get changed later. Why make us grind 10 levels so we can eventually pick our TRUE class? Just give us the true class right out of the gate, I mean really.

[Crogga]

Eh, it's a really, really stupid mechanic that will probably get changed later. Why make us grind 10 levels so we can eventually pick our TRUE class? Just give us the true class right out of the gate, I mean really.

 

/agree. ANd what you said has probably been said by many as well in this posta nd others like it.

 

If your going to have this mechanic then give people the option to switch it a couple of times prior to 20 or 30. The ACs are different and you have no real idea what it's like until you actually try it.

 

Right now this is just another time waster and recipe for frustration and boredom. Not wise when you're trying to get people hooked after just releasing the game.

[Rhinoplat]

Eh, it's a really, really stupid mechanic that will probably get changed later. Why make us grind 10 levels so we can eventually pick our TRUE class? Just give us the true class right out of the gate, I mean really.

 

Again I go back to economics of cost. It's cheaper to have 8 starting series from 1-10 than it is 16 starting series. The other thing is that BioWare is giving new players that have never played an MMO before the ability to get their feet wet and try out an archtype before choosing their class. It really is fine the way it is.

[Wyldsong]

No, I'm not going to play through the first 10 levels of another bounty hunter because BioWare wasn't smart enough to add the ability to change Adv. Classes.

 

Look, I watched the bounty hunter video, and true, I didn't see anything that stated it was permanent. Now, I have not played a BH in live, so I can't really comment there and won't argue any points to the contrary.

 

The other thing I noticed is that nowhere in that video are you given any indication that you can change this choice at any point...personally, if I am playing a game and am uncertain as to whether or not a class choice is permanent, I am going to do some research before making the choice, instead of just doing it and then blaming the developer for not being smart enough to add a feature. It seems there is a bit of shame on you for making the choice and assuming.

 

As for being allowed to change the ACs...I am leaning towards the harsh end, and don't agree with allowing a change. I am heavily of the mind that if you are uncertain, you can do a little leg work to get the intel on the ACs...it is readily available on the net and not too hard to find.

 

Should they make their stance a little clearer on it being a permanent choice in cases like the BH? It couldn't hurt, but then again, if you are given no indication either way, you should do the leg work to find out.

[Rhinoplat]

/agree. ANd what you said has probably been said by many as well in this posta nd others like it.

 

If your going to have this mechanic then give people the option to switch it a couple of times prior to 20 or 30. The ACs are different and you have no real idea what it's like until you actually try it.

 

Right now this is just another time waster and recipe for frustration and boredom. Not wise when you're trying to get people hooked after just releasing the game.

 

I had 3 paid accounts in Shadowbane, all with 7 characters, total of 21 characters; if I had wanted to have a different character I would just re-roll. BioWare has 16 unique character journeys once you choose your AC.

 

Besides at this point in development/release they need to focus on things that are broken; and choosing your AC is not broken.

[Dendore]

I 100% support BioWare's decision not to have Dual Speccing and no AC changes. You should not simply be able to change everything on a whim. Good Job BioWare. This makes for great immersion factor.

[MeanMartian]

Get away from the notion that they share anything. That will make it easier for you to separate the AC's as they should be seen.

 

This would be easier if the advanced classes actually didn't share anything. Unfortunately they do share the things the poster you are replying to says they do so I'm not sure how asking him to deny the observable reality makes for a strong argument in your mind.

[Runeshard]

Get away from the notion that they share anything. That will make it easier for you to separate the AC's as they should be seen.

 

However.........One great reason they share the first 10 levels is for the ease of making the game. It's easier and more cost effective to use the same content over and over instead of creating new content for every little thing.

 

You could ask why am I getting the same missions on a BH as I get on my Op? The voice overs are different, but the actual quest mechanics are the same. Reason: it is cost effective. BioWare found a way to effectively cut costs, in a way that many game companies have done in the past.

 

Your rogue and mage do share some similar traits if they are the same race, so why not let them change because they are the same race?

 

Stop distancing yourself from the fact that the ACs that stem from the same base class share so much.

 

Side quests are the same, so what? There is still a huge difference between rerolling a Bh and trying a IA etc.

 

None of what just stated is a valid reason not to allow for a one time, level limited option to change your AC.

[Crogga]

I had 3 paid accounts in Shadowbane, all with 7 characters, total of 21 characters; if I had wanted to have a different character I would just re-roll. BioWare has 16 unique character journeys once you choose your AC.

 

Besides at this point in development/release they need to focus on things that are broken; and choosing your AC is not broken.

 

That's debatable. Hence all the posts about it. For you it's clearly not, since clearly you have ALOT more time to waste. Most of the world does not have the time for 3 paid accounts with 21 characters....

 

Besides, if you READ what I wrote having the ability to change prior to cap does not make the AC go poof and disappear.

[Runeshard]

I 100% support BioWare's decision not to have Dual Speccing and no AC changes. You should not simply be able to change everything on a whim. Good Job BioWare. This makes for great immersion factor.

BW have stated that they will be adding dual speccing and have indeed left the window open to add AC re-choice (on this matter I only support a one time, level limited option to change your AC, I have no interest in creating FOTM in this respect). As for the argument of a greater immersion factor I fail to see how that is valid. You, who would presumably never use it, wouldn't care. Those that have to replay the same 10 levels again unwillingly to correct something like this would most assuredly view it as immersion breaking.

[Rhinoplat]

That's debatable. Hence all the posts about it. For you it's clearly not, since clearly you have ALOT more time to waste. Most of the world does not have the time for 3 paid accounts with 21 characters....

 

Besides, if you READ what I wrote having the ability to change prior to cap does not make the AC go poof and disappear.

 

Shadowbane was unique in that a character could easily be created and maxed in 3 days. The game was all about end game PvP/Banes.

 

I will answer with what I know: The operative and the sniper. If you want to change between the two then you are not making a minor adjustment between coke or pepsi, you are making a change between coke and beer.

 

The Op is more of a close in healer/dps while the sniper has the longest range in the game. Being able to change between those 2 ACs is a fundamental play style change. If a player didn't know what they were getting into when choosing the operative then they should have researched it more. Complaining that you wanted to play a tank/dps and chose to play a healer is not BioWares fault.

 

The OP(person) is arguing that he wasn't given information to make his decision, and what everyone else that is against his OP(post) is telling him is he was given lots of information on his ACs before he chose to permanently lock himself into his choice.

[Runeshard]

Everyone gets a warning. The point is that the concept of archtypes and classes is not new; in SWTOR they call them classes and Advanced classes. But if the OP had played any other games he would know that. It is rather common what almost 99% of the posts are trying to say; the OP made a mistake but he doesn't want to take responsibility for the mistake, he would rather cry foul on the forums.

 

It is a safe assumption that SWTOR is not going to allow AC changes, based on every other mainstream MMO on the market, and previous MMO's. So why does the OP feel he is special and rates an AC change? His complaint is that it wasn't in the written word for him to read; while other posters have told him it's in the voice over. He neglects the point at hand and then continues to fight for AC changes.

 

My Shadowbane correlation was to show that the archtype system has been used before, it is nothing new just because the OP hasn't seen it before.

 

Did you watch the video linked to in the OP? I have watched it four times and have yet to see a warning that the AC choice is permanent. If you can find one, the please provide a time stamp. And yes, this video, even though it's from the last day of the last beta, does represent the way the choice works to date.

[Wyldsong]

Did you watch the video linked to in the OP? I have watched it four times and have yet to see a warning that the AC choice is permanent. If you can find one, the please provide a time stamp. And yes, this video, even though it's from the last day of the last beta, does represent the way the choice works to date.

 

And as I said on the previous page...it doesn't state that the choice can be changed either. They should have done some leg work instead of just assuming and getting surprised when they found out the reality of the matter.

 

I do agree, I didn't see anything stating the choice was permanent in that link, but it definitely did not say anything about being able to change that choice. Shame on the OP for not doing the leg work to actually find out.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Wyldsong

[imtrick]

No, I'm not going to play through the first 10 levels of another bounty hunter because BioWare wasn't smart enough to add the ability to change Adv. Classes.

 

So, are you expecting you attitude to make a magic "change spec" button appear out of thin air?

 

If you want a different AC, you'll need to reroll.

[Runeshard]

And as I said on the previous page...it doesn't state that the choice can be changed either. They should have done some leg work instead of just assuming and getting surprised when they found out the reality of the matter.

 

I do agree, I didn't see anything stating the choice was permanent in that link, but it definitely did not say anything about being able to change that choice. Shame on the OP for not doing the leg work to actually find out.

 

"it doesn't state that the choice can be changed either"...

 

I said that the OP was wrong, I was sure that the BH had the same warning as everyother class in the game, when I was shown that this was not the case I admitted that fact without trying to twist it around with any of the arguments you've given. I was wrong in this matter and I admitted that and even apoligized to the OP seeing as that was the entire reason he started this thread. There is no shame on the OP here that I can see.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Runeshard

[Brene]

Just read my sig

 

 

 

 

No, because you probably play awful MMOs like AC1 and Lineage 2 and think they're game breaking.

[Brene]

I 100% support BioWare's decision not to have Dual Speccing and no AC changes. You should not simply be able to change everything on a whim. Good Job BioWare. This makes for great immersion factor.

 

They're adding BOTH after launch, I don't know why you kids cannot just use google search.

[Crogga]

Shadowbane was unique in that a character could easily be created and maxed in 3 days. The game was all about end game PvP/Banes.

 

I will answer with what I know: The operative and the sniper. If you want to change between the two then you are not making a minor adjustment between coke or pepsi, you are making a change between coke and beer.

 

The Op is more of a close in healer/dps while the sniper has the longest range in the game. Being able to change between those 2 ACs is a fundamental play style change. If a player didn't know what they were getting into when choosing the operative then they should have researched it more. Complaining that you wanted to play a tank/dps and chose to play a healer is not BioWares fault.

 

The OP(person) is arguing that he wasn't given information to make his decision, and what everyone else that is against his OP(post) is telling him is he was given lots of information on his ACs before he chose to permanently lock himself into his choice.

 

The differences and unqiueness between the ACs is even more an arguement to allow a 2x change prior to level 20-30. You are picking your class at 10 not 1. That is the problem.

And doesn't matter what you 'research', you should not ahve to anyway, it's still not the same as playing it a few levels.

An optional 2x AC change before level 20-30 is a completely reasonable compromise based on this class design.

Edited December 22, 2011 by Crogga

[Wyldsong]

"it doesn't state that the choice can be changed either"...

 

I said that the OP was wrong, I was sure that the BH had the same warning as everyother class in the game, when I was shown that this was not the case I admitted that fact without trying to twist it around with any of the arguments you've given. I was wrong in this matter and I admitted that and even apoligized to the OP seeing as that was the entire reason he started this thread. There is no shame on the OP here that I can see.

 

Sorry, but I haven't gone through all 40+ pages of the thread (not wasting that much of my life on a forum argument). I just know what I am reading now, and have seen only discussion of it not being mentioned as a permanent choice, so I just wanted to add some clarification to the issue and what was seen/not seen.

 

And based on the OPs initial reaction, yes there is some shame on them, especially for claiming Bioware wasn't "smart enough" to add a feature, when they themselves made a choice without doing any research and came to the forums to complain. In the time that the thread has run it's course, they probably could have had another character nearly there, but instead spent a lot of time posting/defending a complaint when they were the ones that made the bad/uninformed choice.

 

It's like anything else in life, if you make a bad decision without researching your options first, then you have no one to blame but yourself. There was no deception here, just an unclarified subject, that lead to no exact conlcusion. But here, unlike in real life, you can just reroll and remake those choices. You make your bed, you now have to lie in it, and accept whatever consequences there may be (like replaying 10 levels).

 

Could some clarification that the choice is pemanent be added to all of that? Sure, why not. I just have a hard time feeling sympathy for those 10 levels when the OP makes an uninformed choice and comes here blaming the developer.

 

I don't mean any of this as an attack, I am just calling it like I see it.

 

Anyhow, I've stated my position, and said what I came to say. Off for some food and hopefully relaxation. Have fun all, I am done with this thread.

Edited December 22, 2011 by Wyldsong

[Rhinoplat]

The differences and unqiueness between the ACs is even more an arguement to allow a 2x change prior to level 20-30. You are picking your class at 10 not 1. That is the problem.

And doesn't matter what you 'research', you should not ahve to anyway, it's still not the same as playing it a few levels.

A 2x AC change before level 20-30 is a completely reasonable compromise based on this class design.

 

I said information was given, I never he said he needed to research. The video the OP links to shows both ACs and what they entail. It's not BioWares fault he didn't use his time wisely to read through the trees of both ACs.

 

I am still laughing at people that want an AC change. BioWare is giving the players a research tool in game so they don't have to go to outside resources. WoW makes you choose right from the start, and if you don't like it then you are forced to make a new character. There is more room for mistakes in BioWares system, and yet you give people an inch, they want a mile.

 

I watched the video, and I have to say the choices he made makes me wonder if he missed out on an opportunity to read/learn more about the ACs. The video doesn't prove anything one way or another.

 

So we are still left with an OP that isn't taking responsibility for his actions. AC switches are not needed.