Switching between advanced classes

[Tellenn]

What the problem?

 

You chose your class just like in any other mmo you cant just change between them. Having the ability to change archetypes would kill variety. Learn you roll and find a guild that needs it.

[Runeshard]

What the problem?

 

You chose your class just like in any other mmo you cant just change between them. Having the ability to change archetypes would kill variety. Learn you roll and find a guild that needs it.

 

Did i miss the part where every other MMO makes you go through 10 levels as an "apprentice" or "recruit" before you get to chose to be a hunter or a warrior, a mage or a warlock? It's not the same, yet people see it as convenient to over simplify the matter.

[MarshalVaako]

Just read my sig

 

 

 

[Runeshard]

Just read my sig

 

 

 

 

And your reasons are? I'm only advocating a one time, level limited option to change AC

[LeandraNyx]

Regardless of what reason the OP has for not picking the right AC, I do agree that there should be the option to change AC very early on (maybe up to level 15 or something?). I leveled up a Sith warrior, and then chose Marauder because it sounded fun... and then had immediate buyer's remorse and wished I'd chosen Juggernaut. My fault? Yeah. Probably should've thought it through more. But it still sucked to delete her and re-level through the starting zone to fix a momentary mistake at level 10.

[LeandraNyx]

Did i miss the part where every other MMO makes you go through 10 levels as an "apprentice" or "recruit" before you get to chose to be a hunter or a warrior, a mage or a warlock? It's not the same, yet people see it as convenient to over simplify the matter.

 

Actually, Aion does exactly this as well -- you start as a priest, and then at level 10 you become either a Cleric or a Chanter (or whatever, based on the starting class), which is the CLASS and which you can never change. There are some shared skills, but it branches out in different directions from there. This seems to be the same system.

[HashyAKAdave]

I'm starting to think that no one looks at the video clip the OP links to, the BH is given no such warning. Check the video and let me know if you find any mention of it.

 

It is not like switching between a rouge and a mage since those two classes never share the same frist 10 levels before choosing to become either, companions, class story, base abillities etc.

 

The OP did pay attention, there was no warning what so ever. Watch the linked video for yourself. It's from the last day of the last beta, and before you ask or state otherwise, no, it has not been changed since then.

 

It's funny isn't it? We give them a video that still accurate, the time in the video, and they still deny there is any warning!

[Fredcat]

Sorry, no changing classes. Anyone with any common sense researched the pros and cons of the advanced classes long before it was time to choose one. And it would have taken you five minutes to alt tab and google them at the time of choice. Totally your fault, let this be a lesson to you. Crying about the 2-3 hours of gametime it takes to re-roll and get to ten and blaming bioware for your own stupidity is ridiculous. They have plenty of real problems to work on without dealing with this crybaby nonsense.

[LilTikiBoy]

Did i miss the part where every other MMO makes you go through 10 levels as an "apprentice" or "recruit" before you get to chose to be a hunter or a warrior, a mage or a warlock? It's not the same, yet people see it as convenient to over simplify the matter.

 

your trying to over complicate it. theres plenty of info on the classes out there for you to find out what class you wanna play. The idea idea that you have to play the first 10 levels over again being too much for some people is just lame. i leveled every class in wow, i didnt really get a feel for anything until 20+ because until then it was use ability A, use ability B, repeat. Just as it is in this game. You wont get a true feel for a class until higher level and the idea of getting to level 20+ and then just swapping over seems stupid.

 

Plus it opens up a whole new can of worms for people to come on here and go "I was a sorc, and I didnt like it, so I switched to assassin when I got the choice. Now I dont like assassin and I wanna go back but I cant, this is dumb!" What then? give them another? and when they complain after that what then? give them another?!?!?!

 

Just leave it as is or people will keep complaining till they have AC's removed completely. The first 10 levels arent that hard. They dont take that long to do, and lets face it, if the 2-3 hours it takes you to level up another character to 10 is too much for you then your not playing the right kind of game.

[AlainLeon]

I've talked to a few people and they say you can't switch your advanced class...I made the mistake of picking the wrong one and I didn't get a warning or anything when I selected it. Is there really no way to switch your advanced class? If not I'm glad I decided to wait before opening my Physical copy of the game.

 

READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST: I DO read everything and listen to everything very carefully, I didn't miss anything saying it'd be permanent.

 

 

EDIT: For those of you saying I should remake my char, I'd rather not spend the time to do it all over again, as short as that time may be. Believe it or not but some of us have IRL obligations and cannot spend hours and hours rerolling.

 

Around 12:30 is where you pick your AV for BH and I didn't see one warning that it would be permanent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PUtZ4Q0p_w

 

 

 

.... It's an mmo...it's meant to be played for a loooong time. If you can't spare 2-3 hrs, you may want to look into single player games, maybe mass effect, skyrim, etc.

[Basiliscus]

Did i miss the part where every other MMO makes you go through 10 levels as an "apprentice" or "recruit" before you get to chose to be a hunter or a warrior, a mage or a warlock? It's not the same, yet people see it as convenient to over simplify the matter.

 

Actually Everquest 2 did this for a long time, Aion does this, Tabula rasa did this. Not saying these are great examples, but it is hardly unprecedented.

[Runeshard]

Actually Everquest 2 did this for a long time, Aion does this, Tabula rasa did this. Not saying these are great examples, but it is hardly unprecedented.

 

I was unaware of these, though it not being unprecedented doesn't make it a good idea. Did these games also not allow any kind of way to change that choice?

[Bromoc]

What would be so wrong with a one time, level limited option to change your AC?

 

1) Changing the dialog for BH would be the least destablizing option from a code quality standpoint.

 

2) Depending on how things are implemented (Since the origonal design said no changing) changing this could require a Database table update that may require taking the servers down for a day. Might have unforseen regressions also

 

(more dissruption for the whole just cause a few people do not want repeat something they are going to repeat 75% anyways)

 

3) The next thing would be a confirm dialog. Again do not know how things are implemented but maybe just a Client change. but again that would require some regression tests, but should be less destablization risks.

 

if I were a dev/PM at BW i'd recommend 1. Investigate 3, but hold off on either one until there are more complaints.

 

Much larger issues to be fixed that more people want. It is in the end a bussiness any of these solutions cost money. Changing dialog would cost a lot, have to rebook the actors in to the studio. But might be the same cost as option 3. Option 2 would be a much much higher cost of allowing the AC change, especially if you confine it to certain levels. its a complex solution and higher complexity means higher cost. Its just how software development works.

 

So for why I'm against changing AC (even level limited onetime). I don't need it and i do not want to risk having that option would destablize the game and make it unplayable for any length of time

 

Now if this was alpha. then sure I'd like to know the Designers real reason for not allowing it. And would support it if i didn't agree with the designers. But hind sight being 20/20...

[LeandraNyx]

I was unaware of these, though it not being unprecedented doesn't make it a good idea. Did these games also not allow any kind of way to change that choice?

 

No, there was no way to change it, because it was choosing your *class*, which is the same thing that's going on here. ACs are not specs, they're classes. There are three ways to spec within each AC, and you can change between those -- that's really not any different than any other game.

[Rhinoplat]

It's funny isn't it? We give them a video that still accurate, the time in the video, and they still deny there is any warning!

 

Shadowbane did the same thing almost over 8 years ago. They had 4 basic Archetypes: Fighter, Healer, Rogue & Mage. Then once you hit level 10 you decided on your class. For example you could choose to be a rogue and then go assassin, or you could start as a mage and also choose assassin. Or the rogue could choose scout which was unique to only the rogue archetype.

 

BioWare has given us 4 archtypes and then allowed us to choose our class from those 4 archtypes. Yes, they chose to give them the names of Advanced Classes. The bottom line is you don't change your class, which in SWTOR is your advanced class.

 

Now I've never played WoW, but even I know that you have to choose your class right away. If you don't like your class then you are stuck with it, or you re-roll. At least in SWTOR they are giving you background info on what CLASS(read it as Advanced Class) you would like to play. But just like in WoW you can't change your class, in SWTOR you can't change your Advanced Class.

 

The issue of dual speccing the trees is different than AC changes.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Sireene
rude/uninviting

[Runeshard]

your trying to over complicate it. theres plenty of info on the classes out there for you to find out what class you wanna play. The idea idea that you have to play the first 10 levels over again being too much for some people is just lame. i leveled every class in wow, i didnt really get a feel for anything until 20+ because until then it was use ability A, use ability B, repeat. Just as it is in this game. You wont get a true feel for a class until higher level and the idea of getting to level 20+ and then just swapping over seems stupid.

 

Plus it opens up a whole new can of worms for people to come on here and go "I was a sorc, and I didnt like it, so I switched to assassin when I got the choice. Now I dont like assassin and I wanna go back but I cant, this is dumb!" What then? give them another? and when they complain after that what then? give them another?!?!?!

 

Just leave it as is or people will keep complaining till they have AC's removed completely. The first 10 levels arent that hard. They dont take that long to do, and lets face it, if the 2-3 hours it takes you to level up another character to 10 is too much for you then your not playing the right kind of game.

"Our reason not to give this is to prevent people from asking for more", talk about opening the door for a mess of trouble.

 

If you don't like the first AC and end up not likeing the second AC either you're probably better off on an entirely different class.

 

I don't think I'm over complicating the issue. This is something that is going to be a problem. People won't take kindly to having to re play the same 10 levels they just went through, class storr and all, over something that is really just an unnecessary frustration. A one time, level limited option to change your AC will take care of most of that, if not all. There will always be those that want more, those that want it all, but that's true of every issue.

[Runeshard]

No, there was no way to change it, because it was choosing your *class*, which is the same thing that's going on here. ACs are not specs, they're classes. There are three ways to spec within each AC, and you can change between those -- that's really not any different than any other game.

 

It all depends on how much of a problem this is going to be, how people will react to it. I know what the ACs are, or at least my take on them, They are more than specs but they are not quite to be compared to classes in the sense that many here want to make out. Asking to change between AC, linked to the same base class of course, is not like wanting to change between, for example a hunter and a warrior or a blaster and a scrapper. Those two ACs have a lot in common in terms of class story, base class abillities, companions, shared 10 starter levels etc.

[JMESUN]

yeah, its funny because its true..

 

the guy even says be sure, you can only pick once.

 

best bet reroll before you get to tied up with your toon

[Runeshard]

yeah, its funny because its true..

 

the guy even says be sure, you can only pick once.

 

best bet reroll before you get to tied up with your toon

 

Did you watch the video the OP linked to? Where do they say that? I'd love for more people to come here after watching that video and admitting that there is indeed no such warning. DesleDarksyde leveled a new BH with the specific intention to prove the OP wrong and he was big enough to come back and say that there was indeed no warning given for the BH.

[Runeshard]

Shadowbane did the same thing almost over 8 years ago. They had 4 basic Archetypes: Fighter, Healer, Rogue & Mage. Then once you hit level 10 you decided on your class. For example you could choose to be a rogue and then go assassin, or you could start as a mage and also choose assassin. Or the rogue could choose scout which was unique to only the rogue archetype.

 

BioWare has given us 4 archtypes and then allowed us to choose our class from those 4 archtypes. Yes, they chose to give them the names of Advanced Classes. The bottom line is you don't change your class, which in SWTOR is your advanced class.

 

Now I've never played WoW, but even I know that you have to choose your class right away. If you don't like your class then you are stuck with it, or you re-roll. At least in SWTOR they are giving you background info on what CLASS(read it as Advanced Class) you would like to play. But just like in WoW you can't change your class, in SWTOR you can't change your Advanced Class.

 

The issue of dual speccing the trees is different than AC changes.

 

I'm not clear on what all that has to do with the fact that the BH doesn't get a warning that the AC choice is permanent.

 

I still see the argument that "you can't change from a <name of a class in another game> to a <name of yet another class in the same game and the class mentioned prior>" as much of a valid point.

[Father_Jerusalem]

The simple point, that nobody has even tried to refute, is that if you don't know about Advanced Classes being permanent then that's your own fault. You had to have TRIED to not know this information. It's been out there for months, it's not like BioWare has made some huge secret of it... not to mention, even if it doesn't say "this is permanent", there is still a "accept" button you have to click in order to choose, so as to eliminate accidental misclicking.

 

If you pick the wrong class: IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT. If you do not know it is permanent: IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT. If you whine for 24 hours on the forums about how unfair it is, instead of just taking 2-3 hours to redo it: IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT.

 

Most of us want TOR to be awesome, and part of that is choice and personal responsibility. We do not want BioWare fix stupid. That's your problem.

 

Suck it up, buttercup.

[foibles]

I'm not clear on what all that has to do with the fact that the BH doesn't get a warning that the AC choice is permanent.

 

I still see the argument that "you can't change from a <name of a class in another game> to a <name of yet another class in the same game and the class mentioned prior>" as much of a valid point.

 

 

This statement is a lie.

 

You were given a long speech explaining how important this decision is, and that it is irreversible.

 

If you chose to simply spacebar through and mindlessly clik the warning popup boxes that again reiterated that the choice was irreversible, then that's your own failure to assimilate the information given.

[Friendzie]

No, I'm not going to play through the first 10 levels of another bounty hunter because BioWare wasn't smart enough to add the ability to change Adv. Classes.

 

Advanced classes are a totally different class. They did it this way so they only had to implement 8 full unique storylines instead of 16. Were the first 10 levels really that horrible to play? I understand you'd be upset, but the idea of you not even playing the game over it makes me think something is really wrong with you. If you hate the game so much that this is simply unbearable, maybe you don't belong playing it anyway.

[Rhinoplat]

I'm not clear on what all that has to do with the fact that the BH doesn't get a warning that the AC choice is permanent.

 

I still see the argument that "you can't change from a <name of a class in another game> to a <name of yet another class in the same game and the class mentioned prior>" as much of a valid point.

 

Everyone gets a warning. The point is that the concept of archtypes and classes is not new; in SWTOR they call them classes and Advanced classes. But if the OP had played any other games he would know that. It is rather common what almost 99% of the posts are trying to say; the OP made a mistake but he doesn't want to take responsibility for the mistake, he would rather cry foul on the forums.

 

It is a safe assumption that SWTOR is not going to allow AC changes, based on every other mainstream MMO on the market, and previous MMO's. So why does the OP feel he is special and rates an AC change? His complaint is that it wasn't in the written word for him to read; while other posters have told him it's in the voice over. He neglects the point at hand and then continues to fight for AC changes.

 

My Shadowbane correlation was to show that the archtype system has been used before, it is nothing new just because the OP hasn't seen it before.

[Anzel]

I don't see any reason at all why you can't switch ACs or respec whenever. It's so weird how people in MMO's are obsessed with what other people do with their characters.