Pyro Skill Discussion: Burnout - Overrated?

[DarthBloodloss]

Since the dawn of time I have had Burnout at 3/3. At rank 3, it gives +3% crit chance and increases DoT damage by 30% to targets under 30% health.

 

Benefit 1) +3% Crit Chance. This is a nice benefit, but would be hard to justify spending 3 points on just a +3%. The same bonus is available as a tier 1 bodyguard skill, but I doubt anyone ever takes it as a Pyro. This shows that its really not needed.

 

Benefit 2) Increased DoT damage to targets under 30% health. This benefit looks nice at first glance. Makes you kinda imagine "oh he's at 30%....look out, here comes the pain" - but that's not even remotely correct. We only have 3 DoTs, and 2 of them do very minor damage.

 

Our target will always be on fire, usually due to Incendiary Missile. But IM does so little damage that even if they were constantly hit by this DoT, the Burnout is only going to add like 200(?) damage. However, I find that near the end of fights, I don't use IM very much due to its low damage per tick. Its too un-bursty to be used at the end of fights...which is what Burnout is designed for.

 

Example: They are at 6500 health, and get hit by a fresh incendiary missile. They will probably die in another 4 attacks, so that means incendiary will tick 4 more times. Each tick does like 150 (guesstimate) so the +30% will add +50 a tick, for a total of 200 damage. Thats 200 damage only from IM, and only when they are almost dead. Combustible Gas Cylinder effect is similar in damage.

 

The only real damage benefit to Burnout is with Fusion Missile. That thing does like 1800 DoT damage, so you get an extra 600damage out of it. But since Fusion Missile is on a cooldown, its not always going to be up when a target is at 30%. And for the same reason as above, I try to be more bursty when my target is almost dead. Applying DoTs is bad strat (normally).

 

It just seems like too little of a benefit for 3 skill points. I recently changed my build to exclude Burnout and I basically have 3 free skill points to waste. I feel like I almost lost nothing, except the +3% crit which can be easily accounted for.

[Macroeconomics]

Burnout is not a great skill. But still better than the alternatives. And yes, you should get Hired Muscle. It adds to both tech and ranged critical chance.

 

Let's face it, part of the reason the Merc dps sucks so bad is that the skill tree gives crappy boosts/bonuses. Is a less than inspiring Burnout part of the problem? Sure. But what are you going to pick up instead of Burnout? Automated Defenses? Degauss? Ugh. Even worse.

[Eterud]

well you could choose: Burnout (more dps)

or else talents that improve your survivability from 0.1 to 0.105

 

I choose the 3% crit over talents such as:

Automated defenses

Degauss

Infrared sensors

Integrated cardio package

[DarthBloodloss]

Degauss is huge. You get melted by melee....this gives you an extra escape button. Our only 3 escapes are Jet Boost, Electro Dart, and Degauss Enery Shield.

 

You can say that Burnout is more DPS....but the reality is that its only going to add around 200-400 damage to an opponent under perfect conditions that are not likely to even occur. It increases damage but has no acutal effect. It wont change any battles

 

Degauss can single handedly let you escape a melee enemy and survive to finish them off. With energy rebounder, you have Energy Shield up a decent amount. Degauss requires 2/2 points but Energy Rebounder can be shaved to 1/2 because you take damage so frequently, the 50% chance is better then it seems.

 

Thanks for the replies. I think if you guys try Degauss a little more, you might like it.

[ZeroPlus]

I think this is one of those "good for Pve" but "meh for PvP" talents.

 

If you PvP the benefit of Burnout is really low.

 

On the other hand in PvE, Burnout is really good. Bosses will last a lot longer in the "30% health" range and so the damage boost is significant.

[wetslampigduex]

Not much damage on that Dot?

I don't play a merc i play a PT but a dot(IM) ticking for 1k a tick when a target is under 30% is helpful, esp trying to burn healers.

 

Pve wise i've tried a spec without taking it and it dropped by DPS 3-400 or more in every fight. Taking increased tech crit and flame burst dmg in its place.

 

I dunno about the merc version, but i've found that taking the other abilities the ones that increase up time on DC and such dont help a whole lot. Your best defense is to kill the other target before he kills you and taking burnout is the best way to do it.

[Choffware]

I agree with the general opinion. It's ok but lack luster at that high of a talent. But since there isn't much else for the pyro merc. I take it anyway. As for the PT in the conversation. Yeah when you have a great burst mechanic like PT have burnout is icing on the cake but for mercs that are struggling to maintain dps or generate burst this talent seems a little anemic... I'm not saying its a cause of the mercs problems but it doesn't mitigate at all either.

[DarthBloodloss]

Not much damage on that Dot?

I don't play a merc i play a PT but a dot(IM) ticking for 1k a tick when a target is under 30% is helpful, esp trying to burn healers.

Healers can always cleanse themself if they want. Also, IM doesn't do 1k a tick. It does 1k spread out over 18 seconds. If I use IM on someone and leave them...their health barely moves. IM will not kill them after 18 ticks. If I'm lucky, it will do 10% of their total health.

 

I dunno about the merc version, but i've found that taking the other abilities the ones that increase up time on DC and such dont help a whole lot. Your best defense is to kill the other target before he kills you and taking burnout is the best way to do it.

In theory yes, but my opinion is that Burnout causes so little extra damage. When someone hits 30% health, they are only going to be alive for 3-4 ticks....tops. And no one is going to IM an enemy when the enemy is at 30%. Its counter productive. It takes so long for its damage to tick that you use the highest heat attack for only 1/5 of its damage potential. Who cares if the 1/5th gets a 30% boost. They will die long before the IM does even half damage.

 

And about killing the other target before they kill you.. If the other target is a melee, they already have a huge advantage over a Merc. The Merc needs Degauss as an escape to prolong the fight / prolong the kiting. Degauss and Energy Rebounder are NECESSARY in my opinion. They can directly cause you to survive and win. But 3 points in Burnout is almost never ever going to directly give you a win, ever.

 

I hit valor 90 on my Merc last night I have PvP'd since forever. Valor 80-90 takes close to the same amount of time as valor 1-79. In aaaaaaaaaallllll those games.....I have never found it useful to Incendiary Missile an enemy who is near 30% health. Its a huge waste of heat, and it uses Sustained instead of Burst. Who uses sustained when an enemy is near death?

 

Just under 500 wins

Around 800 mvp votes

Around 15,500 kills

 

This is from solo queue'ing 95% of the time, so no free MVP votes for me. My point is not that I am skilled. Thats debatable. My point is that I have PvP'd A LOT as a Merc and when something doesn't work, eventually you figure it out. (Like how I figured out to NOT DoT enemies when they are close to death; its a waste of heat and time.)

[Macroeconomics]

When someone hits 30% health, they are only going to be alive for 3-4 ticks....tops. And no one is going to IM an enemy when the enemy is at 30%...The Merc needs Degauss as an escape to prolong the fight / prolong the kiting.

 

Just wait until you play in ranked warzone matches against skilled opponents. That enemy Scoundrel healer at 30% health? He can stay there for 20 seconds EASILY, and that's with your Merc Pyro continuing to shoot at him. Frankly the battle hasn't even started until he is at 30% health, because a high skill Scoundrel healer will LET YOU get him to 30% health while he continues to heal his teammates.

 

And Degauss is not going to do much of anything against a skilled melee opponent. Enemy Warrior/Knights can use their snare essentially at will. And with a 50% speed impact vs. the 30% speed impact of the Merc's snare, you are simply falling into the other player's trap if you attempt to engage in a snare contest vs. them. Sure, kiting using Sweltering Heat and Degauss can be useful vs. low skill players. But against high skill melee players it is not productive.

[DarthBloodloss]

Just wait until you play in ranked warzone matches against skilled opponents.

This is obviously N/A because a Merc doesn't go into a RWZ. There is no skill setup that helps in RWZ. And your point is N/A for the reason that the Op healer will not remain at 30% the whole fight. They will remain at 80% for the entire fight until additional DPS join in. And in that case, Burnout because even less useful. But I agree with your general statement.

 

And Degauss is not going to do much of anything against a skilled melee opponent. Enemy Warrior/Knights can use their snare essentially at will. And with a 50% speed impact vs. the 30% speed impact of the Merc's snare, you are simply falling into the other player's trap if you attempt to engage in a snare contest vs. them. Sure, kiting using Sweltering Heat and Degauss can be useful vs. low skill players. But against high skill melee players it is not productive.

This is not true. If a melee snares you, your KB wont do much. But a KB and Degauss is a full gap. Also when you get lept at and can't move during a Ravage....Degauss Energy Shield saves you from 10k damage.

 

Not to mention the millions of times someone roots you or snares you in an attempt to stop you from saving a bomb from being planted, or a node being capped. They arent going to expect you to degauss. They wont be waiting with a snare until after you Degauss. So you get 1 action. You can do a ton of things, least of which being Power Surge + Concussion Missile. It not only saves you from dieing but gives you more mobility for defensive maps.

 

And in huttball, where Mercs have no business scoring, it lets you walk across fire traps with a higher chance of not being stuck over the flame. (But yes, Merc shouldn't be running the ball. And no class except Assassins should ever walk across the fire when being focused. Always pass across if available/viable.)

Edited February 2, 2013 by DarthBloodloss