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A guide to dealing with smashers w/out bubble


Invictusthetaru

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Hi guys!

 

First and foremost I will say that the spec needs to be tuned down a bit, but that is MOSTLY because people don't know how easy this class (especially juggs) are to counter.

 

1. Smash uses this form Shi-cho, which is a blue guy holding a saber like a baseball bat.

 

First things first, tab target your way through people and mark all the smashers, in a pug there could be lots, in ranked it is 1 or 2.

 

2. Interrupt force choke. Sins can do this from 10-15 m, mercs, slingers and sorcs from 30 m (WOW), Vanguard and warrior from 4m.

 

3. All good sages / sorcs out there (including DPS) pay attention to the red pulsating move on your smashers target( remember, he's marked), if its you, congratulations! Cleanse yourself. If it is your teammate, click cleanse them as quick as possible; remember, the longer your teammates are alive, the longer you are alive.

 

Wow, that's 2 ways of gaining singularity that can be twitch stopped almost instantly if you are good. Let's move on to THE INSTA SMASH.

 

Juggs / guardians get this every 40 seconds, an automatic full singularity. Marauders / sents get this whenever berserk / zen is up respectively (which can be a lot quicker if they are not being focused).

 

My recommendation for most classes when a smasher leaps to you FIRST (you know the insta is coming) is:

Force push, knockback, knockback then force slow (sorcs / sages), cloak out (maras/sents if carnage to break root, pop saber ward, etc), hard stun for operatives.

 

While that is happening, create distance in the OPPOSITE direction. Remember, then need to be 4 m to do any sort of decent damage to you.

 

Knowing where they are at all times is key, and when you are ranged DPS and they are not on you, you should be focusing them down.

 

Part 2: Random Kiting

 

1. All slingers should be rooting smashers pretty much on cool down. Marauders get the get out of jail free card with force camo, but you can root 3-4 times before that is off CD again.

 

Against a good madness sorc / slinger, or heaven forbid both, I know juggs don't last very long.

 

2. All players should be snaring melee on COOL DOWN. If you are a tank sin / ANY sorc and you are not snaring other SINS / JUGGS / MARAs and their opposites on cool down you are sucking.

 

Most maras / sents are too dumb to use their natural snare and juggs can only use it to get to a nearby target.

 

That means if a sniper roots a mara, then a sorc snares him while the sniper / merc / vanguard (whoever it may be) blows him up, he is getting his butt handed to him and hes OFF TARGET.

 

"BUT TONGS, A WHITE BAR SMASHER JUMPED TO ME AND SMASHED AND FORCE CHOKED OBLITERATE SLASH SLASH SMASHED ME!!!!!"

 

Guess what? A white barred carnage marauder would have done it even faster and is harder to kite with 15 percent more innate movement speed and roots for days.

 

However, these players are still subject to roots and snares.

 

Ending:

 

Melee classes are the easiest in this game to control. Resolve dissipates so quickly it's actually quite easy to keep most melee specs out of ideal range.

 

If a smasher jumps to you, then obliterates right after, good job, you just wasted both their auto crits with your attempt to kite them and they need to wait another 10 seconds to get another smash off.

 

And just think, all of this is WITHOUT bubble stun. Guess how much of a joke it is with it?

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Good post.

 

Unfortunately, you are asking players to think and play as a team which will surely upset some people around here who just want a nerf so they don't get smashed rather than play cohesively.

 

but smash does need a nerf...

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correct, but that doesn't mean people are doing all they can to cripple it as is.

 

This guide was meant to help people who don't understand the mechanics of melee vs. ranged.

 

I didn't even get into taunting....

 

or the fact that guard range is 15m :p.

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Nice guide on how to beat a single ability on a single class- that already has multiple guides out on how to counter that same class's CC, defensives and other heavy damage like ravage... most of which require you to use the exact same abilities you've just used countering smash.

 

Now- let's take a look at the guides on how to kill a sorc/merc/dps op.

 

1- Target them

 

 

You don't need to know what sorts of abilities they're building up, or CDs they have, or what specs they are- you just need to spam abilities until they die.

 

The only time my marauder needs to do things differently to get kills is when I'm against a sniper- otherwise there is never a time where I think 'oh, a sorc, I wonder what spec they are so I can plan for all the things they have in store' **** that- I'ma run at him, keep hitting him with abilities, and destroy him before he can get me to 85% health, every time.

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Nice guide on how to beat a single ability on a single class- that already has multiple guides out on how to counter that same class's CC, defensives and other heavy damage like ravage... most of which require you to use the exact same abilities you've just used countering smash.

 

Now- let's take a look at the guides on how to kill a sorc/merc/dps op.

 

1- Target them

 

 

You don't need to know what sorts of abilities they're building up, or CDs they have, or what specs they are- you just need to spam abilities until they die.

 

The only time my marauder needs to do things differently to get kills is when I'm against a sniper- otherwise there is never a time where I think 'oh, a sorc, I wonder what spec they are so I can plan for all the things they have in store' **** that- I'ma run at him, keep hitting him with abilities, and destroy him before he can get me to 85% health, every time.

 

1. Merc is the ONLY class that cannot win a 1v1 with a good warrior.

 

2. If you are a sorc and you can't kite a marauder or jugg with knockback, snare, force sprint, hard stun, root on 9 sec CD.....Sorry but you aren't very good, and that's not even INCLUDING the other people attacking him.

 

3. If you are talking about 2 warriors on you, NO ONE can win against 2 warriors except a shadow with all cool downs up and both warriors have no cooldowns including CC breaker.

 

You always come here ************ about sorc when the truth is I've been kited by madness sorcs on my marauder and my jugg and when you add the fact that I'm ticking down off target and someone else is likely to start ranging me you have yourself a recipe to rape a melee.

 

That doesn't even include bubble stun and LOS offhealing or the awesome insta heal sorcs get on a short CD.

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1. Merc is the ONLY class that cannot win a 1v1 with a good warrior.

 

2. If you are a sorc and you can't kite a marauder or jugg with knockback, snare, force sprint, hard stun, root on 9 sec CD.....Sorry but you aren't very good, and that's not even INCLUDING the other people attacking him.

 

3. If you are talking about 2 warriors on you, NO ONE can win against 2 warriors except a shadow with all cool downs up and both warriors have no cooldowns including CC breaker.

 

You always come here ************ about sorc when the truth is I've been kited by madness sorcs on my marauder and my jugg and when you add the fact that I'm ticking down off target and someone else is likely to start ranging me you have yourself a recipe to rape a melee.

 

That doesn't even include bubble stun and LOS offhealing or the awesome insta heal sorcs get on a short CD.

 

I never get killed 1v1 as my mara against a madness sorc- so clearly you're the bad one. You can say whatever you want to about how easy it is to play a sorc- but do you even play one? I at least rolled a marauder so I could see if they were as powerful as they seemed to be- and now that I've topped one off, yeah, they really are as powerful as everyone says they are- and it's most clear if you play a back to back game, one as sorc then one as mara- just how much more powerful a marauder is in any spec.

 

If you're a mara and can't kill a sorc with the overabundance of roots, gap closers, speed buffs, stealth, multiple defensives, top end burst, heal interrupting then you're the bad one- if you can't always counter force speed there's no question why you're unable to beat sorcs, it's perhaps the easiest escape in the game to shut down.

 

If it's not a heal sorc- shut it down with any leap. If a heal sorc- mez, force choke.

 

What spec are you, so I can explain to you how to play so you can beat a sorc. Or, continue your absurd belief that warriors are truly only better than mercs.

 

But you know 1v1 a warrior destroys- hence why even in your attempt to say the class is fine 1v1, you start to talk about 'when someone else enters into the fight it's easy to kill a melee'. Of course- typical mara behaviour. If any other class needs help from someone else to beat a marauder that's proof marauders aren't OP. You're just another person trying to put a guide out on how to beat YOUR class as classes you don't even play in a sad attempt to stave off being nerfed.

 

 

If you're truly having this much trouble getting your smashes off and don't know how to do it without being debuffed- that's your problem. I have to lol though at you saying 'smashers are fine' followed immediately by 'you should go through and put marks on all the smashers'. Any dps class that is so powerful you must have them marked and need to always be watching their buffs/debuffs closely is obviously way too strong- you do not have to ever go to those lengths to counter anyone else- just smashers.

Edited by fungihoujo
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I never get killed 1v1 as my mara against a madness sorc- so clearly you're the bad one. You can say whatever you want to about how easy it is to play a sorc- but do you even play one? I at least rolled a marauder so I could see if they were as powerful as they seemed to be- and now that I've topped one off, yeah, they really are as powerful as everyone says they are- and it's most clear if you play a back to back game, one as sorc then one as mara- just how much more powerful a marauder is in any spec.

 

If you're a mara and can't kill a sorc with the overabundance of roots, gap closers, speed buffs, stealth, multiple defensives, top end burst, heal interrupting then you're the bad one- if you can't always counter force speed there's no question why you're unable to beat sorcs, it's perhaps the easiest escape in the game to shut down.

 

If it's not a heal sorc- shut it down with any leap. If a heal sorc- mez, force choke.

 

What spec are you, so I can explain to you how to play so you can beat a sorc. Or, continue your absurd belief that warriors are truly only better than mercs.

 

First off, we are talking about SMASH. Rarely will smash players use trans / pred. AND you can cleanse force crush.

 

Carnage marauders are very powerful but the biggest issue is GORE and PRECISION SLASH (sentinels) and good players knockback, hard stun, blind, etc the marauder during this period.

 

I never said I lost a 1v1 to a madness sorc, but as a madness / balance sorc sage you CAN kill a warrior in a 1v1. Not to mention in a MAIN fight a warrior will RARELY have every single cool down up.

 

I guess you're that sorc that gets jumped to by the warrior w/ saber ward up 24/7 :rolleyes:

 

I play on my brothers balance 50 sage on the bastion all the time, name is Healerx (lol). It is a laughable how easy it is to keep melee off of you especially in a big fight. 1v1 I kill bad warriors easily and the good ones it's always a good fight basically coming down to whether or not they have undying rage up.

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Fun, you must not know any good dps sorc/sages then and you yourself must be terrible at sorc/sage. It is possible for a sorc/sage to kite a melee with their utilities and it's even more possible if they're a dps hybris with stun bubble and knock back roots.
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Fun, you must not know any good dps sorc/sages then and you yourself must be terrible at sorc/sage. It is possible for a sorc/sage to kite a melee with their utilities and it's even more possible if they're a dps hybris with stun bubble and knock back roots.

 

Jesus Christ thank you.

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But you know 1v1 a warrior destroys- hence why even in your attempt to say the class is fine 1v1, you start to talk about 'when someone else enters into the fight it's easy to kill a melee'. Of course- typical mara behaviour. If any other class needs help from someone else to beat a marauder that's proof marauders aren't OP. You're just another person trying to put a guide out on how to beat YOUR class as classes you don't even play in a sad attempt to stave off being nerfed.

 

 

If you're truly having this much trouble getting your smashes off and don't know how to do it without being debuffed- that's your problem. I have to lol though at you saying 'smashers are fine' followed immediately by 'you should go through and put marks on all the smashers'. Any dps class that is so powerful you must have them marked and need to always be watching their buffs/debuffs closely is obviously way too strong- you do not have to ever go to those lengths to counter anyone else- just smashers.

 

My Marauder isn't even in full war hero and I play him rarely. My mains are my slinger, my jugg which I run vengeance, and my up and coming sin.

 

I wrote this guide to HELP people. You are an assuming moron.

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Fun, you must not know any good dps sorc/sages then and you yourself must be terrible at sorc/sage. It is possible for a sorc/sage to kite a melee with their utilities and it's even more possible if they're a dps hybris with stun bubble and knock back roots.

 

Another player maining a marauder who thinks it's simple to beat marauders as a class they don't play.

 

OK- so yes, obviously all you people who are enjoying the 8 month and counting marauders being the god class are going to find it extremely easy to do well at this game, you don't need to keep making threads where you get to pretend your class is on par with everyone else and there's no bad classes out there- most of the forum is already a marauder and won't say anything against you, and most of the players using other classes have quit the game by now.

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Another player maining a marauder who thinks it's simple to beat marauders as a class they don't play.

 

OK- so yes, obviously all you people who are enjoying the 8 month and counting marauders being the god class are going to find it extremely easy to do well at this game, you don't need to keep making threads where you get to pretend your class is on par with everyone else and there's no bad classes out there- most of the forum is already a marauder and won't say anything against you, and most of the players using other classes have quit the game by now.

 

I'm on Xerains server and he hardly even plays his marauder, which is his main. He is also currently leveling up a merc.

 

Dude you are so butt hurt you don't understand that sorcs / sages can hold their own with warriors just fine.

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Another player maining a marauder who thinks it's simple to beat marauders as a class they don't play.

 

OK- so yes, obviously all you people who are enjoying the 8 month and counting marauders being the god class are going to find it extremely easy to do well at this game, you don't need to keep making threads where you get to pretend your class is on par with everyone else and there's no bad classes out there- most of the forum is already a marauder and won't say anything against you, and most of the players using other classes have quit the game by now.

 

I said it was easy? I didn't say it was easy. I said it was possible for good sorc/sages to beat melee. I guess you aren't one and don't know any. If you were that good at sorc/sage you'd be able to put up good fights against a mara/jugg. Not saying you'll win 100% of the time which seems to be what you expect to happen.

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I'm pretty sure they've BOTH said in this thread that Smash needs to be nerfed. Till it gets nerfed though we have to deal with it, and whining about it doesn't keep them from using it, so yes a guide like this is very helpful.

 

You're right, other classes don't need a "how to" guide on how to counter one specific spec. That's a problem. A problem that's been acknowledged by two different maras in this thread.

 

This is like the whole premade discussion. Whether it's fair or not, for now we have to put up with it, and if you aren't doing your damndest to do whatever you can to lessen it's effectiveness then you're part of the problem.

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"BUT TONGS, A WHITE BAR SMASHER JUMPED TO ME AND SMASHED AND FORCE CHOKED OBLITERATE SLASH SLASH SMASHED ME!!!!!"

 

my favorite part! :D

 

good post. as a Merc i actually have not had a lot of trouble evading smash. i will usually either use electrodart or jet boost to run away after force choke, and then if they keep chasing concussion missile further discourages them

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I'm pretty sure they've BOTH said in this thread that Smash needs to be nerfed. Till it gets nerfed though we have to deal with it, and whining about it doesn't keep them from using it, so yes a guide like this is very helpful.

 

You're right, other classes don't need a "how to" guide on how to counter one specific spec. That's a problem. A problem that's been acknowledged by two different maras in this thread.

 

This is like the whole premade discussion. Whether it's fair or not, for now we have to put up with it, and if you aren't doing your damndest to do whatever you can to lessen it's effectiveness then you're part of the problem.

 

Dude the worst part is Sages and sorcs have it so much easier than mercs and this guy is the 1 ************. My merc I'm currently leveling is only level 26 but I can tell at 50 it will be much tougher to kite melee than it is on sage.

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My Marauder isn't even in full war hero and I play him rarely. My mains are my slinger, my jugg which I run vengeance, and my up and coming sin.

 

I wrote this guide to HELP people. You are an assuming moron.

 

Pretty sure anything that starts with 'people just are too stupid to know how easy it is to counter a mara' then is followed by several steps that you would have to follow just to counter ONE ability, steps that you wouldn't bother with against the ENTIRITY of any other class- isn't assuming you have given little thought to the reality of facing a smasher.

 

Even if you counter one smash- few classes have the ability to handle the next one, or the next, or the next. You're also writing a guide that seems to suggest every smasher is a complete moron who doesn't use any of his own abilities. You've put it so people have to be hyper aware of what the 2-5 smashers are doing at all times- and we're talking about all this effort to cancel out the abilities of a class that still has top mobility and defensives in the game, that also all need guides (written by marauders too) on how to cancel CoP, or UR, or SW, etc...

 

Look at the last twenty pages of the pvp forums- 95% of the 'guides' are for how to handle ability x that a sith warrior has.

 

 

I appreciate trying to write a guide- but when you lace it with more or less 'you have to be bad to not be able to counter a smasher' then follow with trying to say it's hard to anti kite a sorc I find it hard to believe you have any clue what you're actually doing.

 

This isn't a guide on how to handle a smasher- it's a guide on how to handle smash- that's it, and it's a guide that cuts into the guides out there on how to handle everything else a mara or jugg has.

 

Also- this says nothing about smashers who have CC immunity after every single leap- yes, they lose force crush- but that's fine, after all- everyone should be instantly purging crush anyway so it's not like a jugg loses much to get that.

 

So- you get leaped and rooted, they're immune to all CC and about to shoot an instant attack that hits you for 7k damage by itself- now what's your strategy?

Edited by fungihoujo
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Pretty sure anything that starts with 'people just are too stupid to know how easy it is to counter a mara' then is followed by several steps that you would have to follow just to counter ONE ability, steps that you wouldn't bother with against the ENTIRITY of any other class- isn't assuming you have given little thought to the reality of facing a smasher.

 

Even if you counter one smash- few classes have the ability to handle the next one, or the next, or the next. You're also writing a guide that seems to suggest every smasher is a complete moron who doesn't use any of his own abilities. You've put it so people have to be hyper aware of what the 2-5 smashers are doing at all times- and we're talking about all this effort to cancel out the abilities of a class that still has top mobility and defensives in the game, that also all need guides (written by marauders too) on how to cancel CoP, or UR, or SW, etc...

 

Look at the last twenty pages of the pvp forums- 95% of the 'guides' are for how to handle ability x that a sith warrior has.

 

 

I appreciate trying to write a guide- but when you lace it with more or less 'you have to be bad to not be able to counter a smasher' then follow with trying to say it's hard to anti kite a sorc I find it hard to believe you have any clue what you're actually doing.

 

 

Dude you have no clue how good I am at this game, and the fact that I have this guide for EVERY class in my brain at all times.

 

I use this knowledge to know when rail shot is coming, watch for maul procs on shadows, full lightning charges for the tank spec, 2 strikes in deception for incoming shock + discharge, etc.

 

Fact is people only complain about what is in their face. If you can't kite a warrior on a sage / sorc, you are the one with the issues.

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Pretty sure anything that starts with 'people just are too stupid to know how easy it is to counter a mara' then is followed by several steps that you would have to follow just to counter ONE ability, steps that you wouldn't bother with against the ENTIRITY of any other class- isn't assuming you have given little thought to the reality of facing a smasher.

 

Even if you counter one smash- few classes have the ability to handle the next one, or the next, or the next. You're also writing a guide that seems to suggest every smasher is a complete moron who doesn't use any of his own abilities. You've put it so people have to be hyper aware of what the 2-5 smashers are doing at all times- and we're talking about all this effort to cancel out the abilities of a class that still has top mobility and defensives in the game, that also all need guides (written by marauders too) on how to cancel CoP, or UR, or SW, etc...

 

Look at the last twenty pages of the pvp forums- 95% of the 'guides' are for how to handle ability x that a sith warrior has.

 

 

I appreciate trying to write a guide- but when you lace it with more or less 'you have to be bad to not be able to counter a smasher' then follow with trying to say it's hard to anti kite a sorc I find it hard to believe you have any clue what you're actually doing.

 

This isn't a guide on how to handle a smasher- it's a guide on how to handle smash- that's it, and it's a guide that cuts into the guides out there on how to handle everything else a mara or jugg has.

 

Also- this says nothing about smashers who have CC immunity after every single leap- yes, they lose force crush- but that's fine, after all- everyone should be instantly purging crush anyway so it's not like a jugg loses much to get that.

 

So- you get leaped and rooted, they're immune to all CC and about to shoot an instant attack that hits you for 7k damage by itself- now what's your strategy?

 

well stated. but I would like to also add that its an aoe so am I to stop my current action and counter a smash if they fly in close to me just to be killed by the other opponent. Wars just unjustifiably do way to much bust dmg to the level of stupidity.

Edited by Hexdoll
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I'm on Xerains server and he hardly even plays his marauder, which is his main. He is also currently leveling up a merc.

 

Dude you are so butt hurt you don't understand that sorcs / sages can hold their own with warriors just fine.

 

Hey now! I play my marauder this much!

 

Valor 100, was rank 58 at 1.1 for ilum change, and have 40k confirmed kills (wish it was since day one cause it'd probably be double)

 

I have a 50 sin that is full min maxed war hero, a twink 43 sniper, a 50 sentinel i don't use, and a bunch of lowbies that i'm currently messing with (jugg and merc)

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Stop editing your posts to add more ****.

 

Countering the hybrid veng / smash spec is easy. Your first escape tool needs to be sprint directly after the root > force choke > break > root him while creating distance + snare.

 

If this warrior has force push up and gets it off somehow, you most likely will not win the fight. Good thing Force push on a 60 second cool down.

 

Remember, I said the spec is OP, but that doesn't mean you can't do something about it.

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