We are bound to the Fleet. And the Fleet Is Destroying SWTOR.

[DroidDestroyer]

I actually really like the fleets - but I think every planet and the fleet need a dueling area, even if it is based on the KOTOR arena.

 

I also think the faction capitals need player housing similar to KOTOR apartments, allowing guests on our ships, and all the cantinas need games and swoop racing.

 

These features alone could transform the social aspect of the game and bring back a lot of players who left because they feel it is a single player game with online features.

Edited December 26, 2012 by DroidDestroyer

[Slicksteezin]

We go to Makeb.

 

 

Wow, do you really have that much spare time dude? If yes, well, then there is nothing BW can do about it. Surprisingly(!) most people have lives out there; you know things like school, work, friends, families etc...

 

Oh and don't get me wrong; I'm not writing these to start a fight with you. But come on and be realistic: Maxing your char slots and doing everything with those toons should reqiure ZERO real life and 24/7 SWTOR. I'm sure there are people like that (and I'm really sorry for them) but I don't want to believe that they're the majority. If so, BW should release new content every 2 weeks and even that wouldn't be enough for those people.

 

Having said those things, I also have to say that the social non-fighting part of the game should be worked on a bit more. I shouldn't log onto the game and say "who do we kill today?" all the time. Some actions that don't involve killing would be nice.

 

As I said, I'm not trying to start a fight but there are still people enjoing the new content that came with 1,6 unlike those who "consumed" it in just 2 days after its release.

 

Okay apparently a lot of people were mislead by what i was going for by posting this. First of all i did not ever imply that i personally plan on achieving those things stated, nor would i hope anyone does for that matter. I am a full time college student and work part time, My time spent in this game has always been scarce.

 

And for those that have turned this into a sandbox vs themepark arguement, you also misinterpreted what i was saying. Yes i realize this game is "WoW in space" in a nutshell, and that it will never be like SWG. But never did i say that would be ideal for the game.

 

Turning this game into a sandbox MMO would not be a good move, but adding A couple sandbox elements would do this game justice.

 

As for Makeb and the new content in 1.6 - I hope to not really get into a debate about this because we really know nothing, and Bioware is notorious for leaving details out until last minute. But having said that there really isn't much reason to believe there will be anything substantially different as far as what I was trying to suggest in this post.

 

And yes I will agree that every MMO has that social sweet spot that is the main hub for the game. But it is taken to the extreme in TOR. Once you're 50, the game is on the fleet. aside from dailies there really is zero point at all to go wipe the dust off the planets. The social hub should be the place of trade and commerce, not the entirety of the server population.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Slicksteezin

[Sleprock]

There needs to be multiple hubs, much like GuildWars 1. You had Ascalon, Lion's Arch, and Drognar's Forge. Capital worlds could be for all of the OPs gear etc, Fleet for PVP. or whatever. There just needs to be reasons for people to gather in a specific area, and for that to happen each needs to have its own purpose, yet have a difference from the other.

 

Even with no Fleet, as this game sits now, everyone would be bottled up on the capital worlds and we'd all be complaining about that.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Sleprock

[lobotaru]

I completely agree. SWTOR is essentially the same game we've been playing for the last 10 years with minor tweaks. The current state of MMORPGs is readily and easily comparable to the Call of Duty: Modern Warfare franchise, which keeps giving us the same game over and over again, only on a much greater scale with multiple publishers pumping out clones of each other's games. SWTOR needs nothing less than a complete overhaul, much like how Squarenix has given Final Fantasy XIV, and given the kind of changes being demanded by players, we're talking about a bare minimum of one and a half years in development. I'm not going to say that Bioware's objective is to milk us as much as they can before the game crashes while only putting out the bear minimum effort necessary to say they are committed to the game, but that is effectively what they are doing. They essentially need to turn this into a very different kind of game, and they need to involve the community so that they can feel excited about being part of the process. Edited December 26, 2012 by lobotaru

[MariaD]

Update: I see you already addressed this, saying it's not the point. But I don't see what the point is, then?

 

Well done, you completely disregarded everything i just said by making this post.

 

1. I did not imply that i myself have done all of those things. My SWTOR playtime is very scarce these days.

 

2. My point was that nobody actually WANTS to do those things and that we need other things to do.

 

Words mean things. When you write "our" - it means you include yourself with the people you describe. Here is what you wrote:

So Bioware I ask you, what do you want us to do when our character slots are maxed? When our characters are fully geared and have completed all the Ops? Maxed our crafting skills? Reached max valor?

 

Yes, people want to do those things! We have 130+ guild members and there is always someone on doing one of the things you mention here. Do people want to MAX OUT all those things in one year of playing? Most people do not, as it it simply TOO MUCH PLAYTIME. There is a thread for people who have 8 level 50 characters. It's not large, and many people there said they were unemployed at the time.

 

If you playtime is scarce, you don't run out of things you do. So the point is not that there is nothing to do, but that you don't like doing what is available. It's fine, but other people do like those things, AND they don't run out unless they play something like 8 hours per day on the average.

Edited December 26, 2012 by MariaD

[Slicksteezin]

Update: I see you already addressed this, saying it's not the point. But I don't see what the point is, then?

 

 

 

Words mean things. When you write "our" - it means you include yourself with the people you describe. Here is what you wrote:

 

 

Yes, people want to do those things! We have 130+ guild members and there is always someone on doing one of the things you mention here. Do people want to MAX OUT all those things in one year of playing? Most people do not, as it it simply TOO MUCH PLAYTIME. There is a thread for people who have 8 level 50 characters. It's not large, and many people there said they were unemployed at the time.

 

If you playtime is scarce, you don't run out of things you do. So the point is not that there is nothing to do, but that you don't like doing what is available. It's fine, but other people do like those things, AND they don't run out unless they play something like 8 hours per day on the average.

 

Look, i wrote "our" too address the community as a whole including myself. Would you rather have me make this post sound bias and say "me", "them" or "you"?

 

If you really want to boil it down to the debate that the current content satisfies the majority of the player-base, i'll skip out now. If you're happy with how this game is and where it's going, more power to you and im glad you enjoy it. But most long time MMOers will agree that the current end game content is very dull.

 

The question is not whether some people like what is currently offered, but more from a business perspective of; is there enough people or not enough.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Slicksteezin

[lobotaru]

But I think that is the problem with the game right now... business. I'm going to contradict myself here by saying that the developers are talking with the player base. The problem is that they are paralyzed from executing the intensive overhaul necessary to keep the game breathing. The people who leave will often cite a lack of sandbox elements in the game as being a reason for leaving. Other times its pod racing or space combat. The company is failing at the analysis portion of content design, which demands that they create content players want. Instead, the content coming out is not what players want, indicating to the players that their input on game content is being ignored, while item store suggestions are being followed through. This is a disaster in designer-client relations, as it just makes Bioware look more like a money grubbing businessman who just wants to milk players for money until their product inevitably crashes and burns. The players feel like they care more for the product than the product's creators. Edited December 26, 2012 by lobotaru

[JunkyardWolf]

eeeeeeeewwww fleet rot

[MariaD]

Look, i wrote "our" too address the community as a whole including myself. Would you rather have me make this post sound bias and say "me", "them" or "you"?

Yes, I would rather you spoke of what you know - in this case, yourself and the people you know personally.

 

There is no good way for anyone to address this community as a whole, because (1) it's extremely diverse and (2) there is no statistical data about opinions available to anyone, short of doing a study. Which I assume you have not done, given your busy schedule.

 

If you really want to boil it down to the debate that the current content satisfies the majority of the player-base, i'll skip out now. If you're happy with how this game is and where it's going, more power to you and im glad you enjoy it. But most long time MMOers will agree that the current end game content is very dull.

 

I would not talk about majorities without some solid data in hand, since such conversations require statistics.

 

The question is not whether some people like what is currently offered, but more from a business perspective of; is there enough people or not enough.

More people now that two months ago. Enough to keep the game open. That's all we know as users, since the rest is kept secret for business reasons.

Edited December 26, 2012 by MariaD

[Forgon]

Personally, I think BW needs to get endgame and player hubs focused around Nar Shadaa, Dromund Kaas, Coruscant, and allow there to be a flow of players between the planets.

 

Let Nar Shadaa be the place for casino mini-games and places to play pazaak, sabbac, dejerek, and whatever other Star Wars games there are, whether against computer AIs or other players.

 

Let the capital worlds be a place for players to run around to do their endgame missions and duel against each other or something.

 

As far as I am concerned, the fleet should only exist as a place to pick up anything between levels and be a secondary social hub for players not on the above three planets.

[Slicksteezin]

But I think that is the problem with the game right now... business. I'm going to contradict myself here by saying that the developers are talking with the player base. The problem is that they are paralyzed from executing the intensive overhaul necessary to keep the game breathing. The people who leave will often cite a lack of sandbox elements in the game as being a reason for leaving. Other times its pod racing or space combat. The company is failing at the analysis portion of content design, which demands that they create content players want. Instead, the content coming out is not what players want, indicating to the players that their input on game content is being ignored, while item store suggestions are being followed through. This is a disaster in designer-client relations, as it just makes Bioware look more like a money grubbing businessman who just wants to milk players for money until their product inevitably crashes and burns. The players feel like they care more for the product than the product's creators.

 

Completely Agree with this.

[Hassat-Hunter]

But I think that is the problem with the game right now... business.

Not entirely.

Generally the smallest groups are also the loudest.

Think of the hardcore endgamers or PvP'ers.

 

Does Bio spend time on anything else (space combat!)... did you hear the outrage.

 

So, as usual, it's a bit too easy to say it needs X or Y based on the people leaving, the people on this forum etc.

[MrHotter]

You know I never really had a problem with fleet. I'm barely on it since the group finder thing ever came out and I only go on it for the daily quest from pve and pvp. I just wish we had field pve and pvp terminals or more planetary teleport besides DK, Tatt and BH.

 

I'm the same way, but I never leave the fleet. I'm leveling several classes and like to do the dailies. If I log on and do a daily PvP and then do a daily flashpoint I may as well not go down to a planet to do any leveling or dailies. If I do go to the planet the group finder brings me right back and I end up exiting back onto the fleet for the social points after the flashpoint.

 

We need a few thing if we want people to be able to leave the station:

1. Mission terminals at the starting area of the Warzones.
   
2. Mission terminals in the first room of the Flashpoints.
   
3. Mission briefing/debreifing while inside the Flashpoint.
   
4. Auto completion of daily after exiting warzone/flashpoint.
   

 

We could enter and exit the flashpoint from a shuttle (or one of the players ships) that picks us up wherever we are. Then we could do the breifing as a group, and then have the same thing when we chose 'exit' after the flaspoint. Then when we exit the shuttle we could chose 'last location' to go back to questing.

 

As it stands right now, many players have no idea why they are in a Flashpoint, and they completely miss the story parts of the Foundry.

 

I hate to see them cut out the best part of the game (the story driven questing) because it's too much of a hassle to get back to the planet after doing daily Flaspoints/Warzones.

Edited December 26, 2012 by MrHotter
adding a point

[Slicksteezin]

Yes, I would rather you spoke of what you know - in this case, yourself and the people you know personally.

 

There is no good way for anyone to address this community as a whole, because (1) it's extremely diverse and (2) there is no statistical data about opinions available to anyone, short of doing a study. Which I assume you have not done, given your busy schedule.

 

 

 

I would not talk about majorities without some solid data in hand, since such conversations require statistics.

 

 

More people now that two months ago. Enough to keep the game open. That's all we know as users, since the rest is kept secret for business reasons.

 

I'm sorry but everything you just said there is ridiculous. Obviously i'm not a scientist that has just spent a great deal of my time formatting a "creditable study" to share with the community, these are my thoughts and views in how i see the game now and what is to come. You are more than welcome to disagree. And as for the few times i addressed the community as a whole, it would take a fool to argue it.

 

You either love arguing or are vastly selling yourself short by setteling for mediocre at best.

[Hassat-Hunter]

We need a few thing if we want people to be able to leave the station:

1. Mission terminals at the starting area of the Warzones.
   
2. Mission terminals in the first room of the Flashpoints.
   
3. Mission briefing/debreifing while inside the Flashpoint.
   
4. Auto completion of daily after exiting warzone/flashpoint.
   

Why not have one mission terminal on your ship, merging the daily and weeklies of all types (pvp, space, pve) on it. Or several in the pilot cabin if that one console becomes too preoccupied.

It sure has space for it if they're the size of the space console.

 

(Forcing the briefing as team is probably a bad idea seeing the amount of "SPACEBAR!" going around already)

Edited December 26, 2012 by Hassat-Hunter

[MariaD]

I'm sorry but everything you just said there is ridiculous. Obviously i'm not a scientist that has just spent a great deal of my time formatting a "creditable study" to share with the community, these are my thoughts and views in how i see the game now and what is to come. You are more than welcome to disagree. And as for the few times i addressed the community as a whole, it would take a fool to argue it.

 

You should not make statements about "most people" and "majorities" without SOME data to back them up. You have none whatsoever. Yes, it's better NOT to say things you can't support in any way, shape or form.

 

For that matter, saying "it would take a fool to argue" is pretty bad form too, as arguments go.

 

But let's drop the above since it was NOT the point you were trying to make, it turns out. Let's do something constructive here instead. I confess I am still not clear what the point of this thread is. Are you brainstorming better ways to have a hub? Can you please restate your point?

[DorkTrooper]

So where do we go? we rot in the fleet.

 

My 50 doesn't spend much time on fleet. I go there to pick up fp and op quests, turn in comms, and other occasional vendor or GTN visits. That's it.

 

I run around doing dailies, collecting crafting mats, and killing stuff while waiting for fp/op queues. And when I want to do solo content exclusively, sometimes I log in just to run space missions for easy credits. There's no reason to sit on fleet all the time.

 

Aside: People who regularly want to run HM ops and other things not on the groupfinder really should find a guild that focuses on that content, IMO. Sitting on fleet for PUGs is okay if you don't mind crafting or doing something else in the meantime. It would be handier to have more high-level group content added to the groupfinder, but right now an ops guild is the way to go.

[Troezar]

It's a theme park mmo, they will never have enough content. The future lies in a hybrid theme park/sandbox giving people things to do between spoon fed content.

 

The next big game that gets the balance right will make a lot of money and last a long time. Personally I can't wait for this trend to blitz content in the shortest possible time to end. I want to be able to create and explore and pvp without it all being worthless in weeks or months.

 

Sadly the games won't change until the gamers change and that takes time....

[GalacticKegger]

You should not make statements about "most people" and "majorities" without SOME data to back them up. You have none whatsoever. Yes, it's better NOT to say things you can't support in any way, shape or form.

 

For that matter, saying "it would take a fool to argue" is pretty bad form too, as arguments go.

 

But let's drop the above since it was NOT the point you were trying to make, it turns out. Let's do something constructive here instead. I confess I am still not clear what the point of this thread is. Are you brainstorming better ways to have a hub? Can you please restate your point?

It's either a troll thread or this is OP's first MMO. Every MMO has it's social hub and for SWTOR that would be fleet. Destroying SWTOR? I used to think that forum griefers would destroy SWTOR. But they didn't and lost. Fleet's a good thing. Edited December 26, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[arunav]

BW wanted the capital planets to be hubs, but it didn't work for technical/lag/etc reasons.

 

So we are stuck with fleet, which was thrown together and looks pretty bad compared to how good much of the rest of the game looks.

 

If resources become available, I think they should simply revamp the fleet to look great and add areas, such as a dueling floor. And, clearly, make the two fleets distinct from one another.

 

Will this happen any time soon? No.

 

Ever? Possibly in a proper expansion.

 

I remember reading something about plans to make Makeb a 50 hub, though I don't know if that has been scrapped since.

Edited December 26, 2012 by arunav

[Fireswraith]

I'm sorry but what does your post have anything to do with how the Imperial/Republic Fleet is destroying SWTOR? Because I can tell you it's really not.

[TheSeventhJedi]

Preach on, OP. Preach on.

[Hassat-Hunter]

BW wanted the capital planets to be hubs, but it didn't work for technical/lag/etc reasons.

The fleet's super laggy too. If spread out over more areas/terrain one would think it would lesson, not increase.

 

Other technical reasons however is too vague to go into

[CrimsonFire]

It's not an on/off, do/don't argument. It's HOW it's implemented and designed that's poor. The fleets serve a purpose but yes it's also cutting corners and "standing around" becomes a natural part of playing the game, which is pretty bad considering it's otherwise a vast universe.

 

For example; why large circles on the outside of the center holding terminals instead of a natural meeting place IN the center surrounding a more social area making you feel immersed. Not small little bar areas which serve no purpose what so ever that you can hardly see anyway and spreading players out and away from each other.

 

Also, everything's greyish metalish and dull and way overscaled making you feel like an ant. Too many different light sources in way contrasting colors in an already overlit area instead of a more dimly lit areas in darker more omnious rooms. I guess another flaw of the engine... All in all this goes for the majority of design choices in SWTOR in general. Everything is square and not presented well visually unfortunately.

[Aizen]

Honestly, I hated the fleet with a passion. Hell, I still do. It's nothing more than a great divide in the game. We have these iconic planets that might as well mean nothing to the player past the level. And the Dailies are nothing short of insulting. Being in a guild is pointless 95% of the time, and that's me being nice about that figure.