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Vengeance Spec Help

Jefficous

By Jefficous
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paowee

paowee

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is dps jug worth it?

 

Yes. When we raided HM TFB last boss, his Juggernaut did at least 1,000,000 total damage done. I don't think anyONE who can hit at least 1,000,000 in HM TFB last boss is worthless lol.

Edited by paowee
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AresQQ

AresQQ

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i was playing with vengeance for a long time and the problem wasn't on pve but on pvp because the over time dmg sucks and it takes to long to complete (at least for pvp).. so in other words while you pvp for an example on wz you will never live to see your over time damage actually kill or dmg your enemy .. not to mention that simple they can self heal or healer can heal them . the solutions to make it viable are simple . destroy the over time damage and include it on main damage (then you will see a major change on that "useless for pvp spec"(always at my opinion) and it will be again viable dps for pvp and for pve much more.

 

thank you very much always these are my believes and i don't want to offend anyone. if you agree try also to tell it to bioware .. i have try many times without success.. maybe they will hear us when we are more :)

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paowee

paowee

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http://www.torparse.com/a/84870/29

 

Alright mauull, there's my link to a parse of mine. It was 1720, when I stopped.

 

You're not using your optimal rotation. Check out these parses.. My parse and Mauull's parse have something in common that you don't... I've seen every parse posted by people in this thread and they're all... well wrong >_<;

 

REXAS http://www.torparse.com/a/84870/29/0/Damage+Dealt

your 5 min 29 second parse

 

 

BOARD http://www.torparse.com/a/95599/time/1357890105/1357890434/0/Overview

random 5 min 29 seconds taken out of my 36 min parse

MAULL http://www.torparse.com/a/79620/time/1356037873/1356038202/0/Damage+Dealt

the first 5 min 29 seconds taken out of his 8 min parse

Edited by paowee
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paowee

paowee

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yeah but whats the gap between the marauder and jug? i mean it seems like 200..

 

Yeah it does look to be around ~200 DPS difference. My parse above is 1800. I'm pretty confident any above average Marauder can do 2K on a dummy. My question is why are we/you/people so concerned about the DPS gap between marauder and jugg. As long as you can push your class to its extent (both in raids and dummies), that 1900 JUGG parse is IMHO more impressive than any 2000 parsing Marauder. Simply because hitting that 2K Mark on a Mara is ez mode :rolleyes:

Edited by paowee
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TwistedTony

TwistedTony

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Yeah it does look to be around ~200 DPS difference. My parse above is 1800. I'm pretty confident any above average Marauder can do 2K on a dummy. My question is why are we/you/people so concerned about the DPS gap between marauder and jugg. As long as you can push your class to its extent (both in raids and dummies), that 1900 JUGG parse is IMHO more impressive than any 2000 parsing Marauder. Simply because hitting that 2K Mark on a Mara is ez mode :rolleyes:

 

idk man, i have yet to see a marauder get higher than 2050 WITHOUT BT! Someone show me a parse with no BT thats in the 2100-2200s that every1 claims they can do without BT and i'll say ya, 2000 is easy mode

 

in response to rotation, thats an older parse

 

check this one and see my rotation there, cuz i tweaked it for this one using Mauull's advice http://www.torparse.com/a/93031/2/0/Overview

it was 1720 before it cut out

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TwistedTony

TwistedTony

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I'm doing better getting 1700 now (Exotech Stim, No adrenals)

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/96119 (make sure you change the time to view the fight, I kinda screwed up when editing out my BH dailies)

 

But I keep feeling like I'm missing something thats just staring me in the face and I can't figure out what. What am I missing?

 

thats awesome man, grats. Whats your gear btw?

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Sleggefett

Sleggefett

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This is awesome. Stil **** gear(only been 4 raids, so still low-geared), but by reading here, and spending some time on the dummy, I've rasied my vengdps from 1220ish to 1400ish, without buffs/stims/etc. Refusing to go rage, and seems like I won't have too!

 

Also been fun comparing my logs with that of Maull and Paowee, bit uncertain about what stats to aim for, but I got an idea. Just hope they'll balance rage/venge and jugg/mara in the 1.7 patch.

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planet_J

planet_J

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Watchman and annihilation spec sents/maras, who also use bleeds, aim for 30-35% crit and 75+% surge. You get lots of help on crit from stacking strength...which means you could itemize more power and surge and accuracy by stacking strength first.
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paowee

paowee

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idk man, i have yet to see a marauder get higher than 2050 WITHOUT BT! Someone show me a parse with no BT thats in the 2100-2200s that every1 claims they can do without BT and i'll say ya, 2000 is easy mode

 

in response to rotation, thats an older parse

 

check this one and see my rotation there, cuz i tweaked it for this one using Mauull's advice http://www.torparse.com/a/93031/2/0/Overview

it was 1720 before it cut out

 

I can do 2111 on my sniper with no BT :-) See sig. It happened last night. was like magic..

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TwistedTony

TwistedTony

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I can do 2111 on my sniper with no BT :-) See sig. It happened last night. was like magic..

 

that is pretty beast, and its good to see that snipers are getting the results expected from being a dps only class like a mara. do u hit 2100 often or is that like a once in a while, super good parse?

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OlosBC

OlosBC

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Watchman and annihilation spec sents/maras, who also use bleeds, aim for 30-35% crit and 75+% surge. You get lots of help on crit from stacking strength...which means you could itemize more power and surge and accuracy by stacking strength first.

 

Don't quote crit %, use crit rating, that's what DR is based on.

 

Surge and accuracy are not exchangeable for any other stat. Get enough accuracy and put rest into surge. Only way to get more is to augment surge or accuracy. Don't do that. Always augment strength.

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paowee

paowee

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that is pretty beast, and its good to see that snipers are getting the results expected from being a dps only class like a mara. do u hit 2100 often or is that like a once in a while, super good parse?

Offtopic:

 

Well I played around and tested a new rotation last night. It will be consistent once i get enough dummy practice with it.

 

1. (SNIPER) 2108 DPS - http://www.torparse.com/a/96740/time/1357978282/1357978582/0/Damage+Dealt

 

2. (00:49:00 - 00:54:00 is 5 minutes into the fight) 2111 DPS - http://www.torparse.com/a/96772/time/1357894140/1357894440/0/Overview

 

 

Edited by paowee
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Sleggefett

Sleggefett

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Yeah what's the deal on what should crit and surge be?

 

Like OlosBC said, get 100% accuracy, then put the rest in surge(as you won't get mods/enhs with both accu and surge).

 

Crit on the other hand, I'm not totally sure about.

With a standard 4/31/6 spec, you'll at least aim for 31% crit. This will make your Force Scream and Vicious Throw guaranteed crits with raid buffs. What I'm not sure about, is how to prioritze after you hit this mark; crit > power(to the point where DR is just to much) or power > crit?

Edited by Sleggefett
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TwistedTony

TwistedTony

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Offtopic:

 

Well I played around and tested a new rotation last night. It will be consistent once i get enough dummy practice with it.

 

1. (SNIPER) 2108 DPS - http://www.torparse.com/a/96740/time/1357978282/1357978582/0/Damage+Dealt

 

2. (00:49:00 - 00:54:00 is 5 minutes into the fight) 2111 DPS - http://www.torparse.com/a/96772/time/1357894140/1357894440/0/Overview

 

 

Btw about your jug parse rotation, force charge is actually required to hit high dps?

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KelebrinPL

KelebrinPL

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Btw about your jug parse rotation, force charge is actually required to hit high dps?

 

It surely is.

 

Basically high numbers parsed by Okuy are result of using Shatter, Force Scream and Impale in 9 second period. Shatter becomes static on beginning of every 9 sec period and Force Scream and Impale move around, because of usage of Ravage on every CD and force generating. On parse you can see that he only skipped one Force Scream and one Impale throughout whole parse - that basically means that he delayed usage of this abilities no more than 1 GCD after they were off cd every 18 seconds.

 

Too use Impale, Shatter and Force Scream without Battle Cry you need to generate 10 rage. And you have just 3 gcd to generate that ammount if Ravage is not off cd, If you use Ravage it gets even more complicated.

 

So basically for this rotation we need as much rage as possible, and Battle Cry is necessity. It reduces rage needed to 6, which is quite easy to get.

 

I still don't get how he manges to do what he does and there must be a way to make rage generation easier. But hopefully we can all get there by just working on dummy.

 

And for crit required, just ask Okuy if he's full DG, if yes just use min damage done by Force Scream, and with assumption that he has 78% crit multiplier, just count how much power he has. With that information you can basically get his crit rating.

Edited by KelebrinPL
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vadess

vadess

Posted
Posted

Thanks so much, Kelebrin, for explaining that as I am a bit lost reading parsers and/or not very clear instructions. Your deduction of it is perfect! I do have one question about it though. ANd it's in regard to rage building.

I still don't get how he manges to do what he does and there must be a way to make rage generation easier. But hopefully we can all get there by just working on dummy.

 

In my tweaking of my rotation, I've been trying to get shatter higher than sundering assault but I always fail as I need assault to generate rage. The only other moves I have at my disposal for rage generation are throw, charge, enrage, smash, and force choke; however, all of those have long CDs and I can't use force charge unless I back up from the target which causes me to decrease in DPS number as I'm not hitting anything. So, how can I generate all that rage without defaulting to sundering assault? Should I just use my basic attack to generate rage instead?

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