Mischarged asassins?

[Segastorm]

Hey, I've just ran a colicoid war game, and the group did include an asassin. He was dps and using dark charge, so I did ask him to switch him to lightning charge. I only get a response with something like "why? I'm not in dps race". It was shortly after that I noticed quite a few times, when I run into asassins/shadows in this fp, most of them are using dark charge with a dps spec, is there any reason behind this whatsoever? Or is it just one of those people who play it because they live longer under fire (which shouldn't really happen to a group with a good tank, and ours was oka

[Rynis]

As a tank, I hate when people think they can come dps in tank stance. Just because it works well in pvp doesn't mean you should do it in pve. I let them tank the boss and tell the healers not to heal him .

[verfallen]

1st DPS trees are built around surging charge and lightning charge. For either of them, you hurt gour dps efficiency a lot by not using them.

 

2nd tank tree is MORE than a charge. If they insist on keeping it on, have the tank and healer let them pull and die until they understand.

[Cowflab]

I'm pretty sure they're just being ignorant. Dark charge has a -5% to martial damage that would seem counter productive to a dps role. It also adds a pretty good amount of threat to shock, assuming they're using a 23/1/17 spec or some other variation. If I were in your shoes, I'd allow them the opportunity to respec. If they refused, then I'd vote kick. That spec brings nothing to a group other than a headache if you're running FP's and DPS players are a dime a dozen. It wouldn't take long to fill their slot in the groupfinder queue. Edited December 25, 2012 by Cowflab

[Exiled-Phoenix]

Not to mention that they have increased agro generation while actually being a decreased DPS.

I'd vote to kick..

[Segastorm]

As a tank, I hate when people think they can come dps in tank stance. Just because it works well in pvp doesn't mean you should do it in pve. I let them tank the boss and tell the healers not to heal him .

 

Lol, ty, I'm the heals so that I will do next time

[Cowflab]

Lol, ty, I'm the heals so that I will do next time

 

You should've done it the first time.

 

No one should encourage bad play and reward stupidity.

 

Hefty repair bills are usually a good deterrent to playing a role as it is not intended to be played. Either that, or the player will get frustrated from the constant deaths that he/she will rage for a second and then leave the group. After he/she is gone, you can all /lol--->/point and wait 2 seconds for a fill in DPS.

Edited December 25, 2012 by Cowflab

[RefugeASSASSIN]

They do it because they probably bought the stalker gear and if they are running 31-0-10 they dont really get much of a bonus to running in the other stances and dont lose that much DPS being in Dark Charge. That being said, if a SIN is not the main or off tank in any FP or Op, they shoudlnt be in Dark Charge simply because it pulls way too much threat and makes it harder for the healer as he now has to heal 2 (or even 3) tank type classes so its harder for him to manage resources.

 

Long story short, if not tanking they should be in ANY other stance, regardless of build else it puts too much stress on other party members.

[Squidkidz]

They do it because they probably bought the stalker gear and if they are running 31-0-10 they dont really get much of a bonus to running in the other stances and dont lose that much DPS being in Dark Charge. That being said, if a SIN is not the main or off tank in any FP or Op, they shoudlnt be in Dark Charge simply because it pulls way too much threat and makes it harder for the healer as he now has to heal 2 (or even 3) tank type classes so its harder for him to manage resources.

 

Long story short, if not tanking they should be in ANY other stance, regardless of build else it puts too much stress on other party members.

 

First of all, if he's doing collicoid he's not 50 therefore not wearing stalker gear, and why would having stalker gear mean they dont get much of a bonus in other stances?? Stalker is a dps set, and yes you do lose a lot of damage being in dark charge, 5% to be exact.

[MantorokTwelve]

Not as bad as sins that try to tank it in lightning (or worse, surging) charge. I generally try to help bads when I see them, but you have to vote to kick them when they're unresponsive or belligerent.

 

I have absolutely no patience for bads in endgame content though. People should be smart enough by the time they reach 50 to know when the assassin tank is CCing stuff, it's because he's trying to get you through the instance as quickly as possible. Especially if he says so in group chat. Nothing makes me rage harder than some idiot jumping right into the add I just mezzed.

[Darthspirtus]

I never do it on purpose, but sometimes I forget to switch after playing pvp. But I never claim to be a pro, and if I catch it, I own up to it immediatly and apoligize to the group. I was a healer for 3 years on another game most of us played so I understand what it means when your making the healer or tank work harder than they need to.

 

And before anyone comments about me using dark charge in pvp. I am not a pvp type player.. I just do the daily/weeklies with pug groups and find the extra health helps just a little when Im taking on a group alone.. A little less squishy never hurts.

[panoukla]

Assassin in full tank spec with Dark Charge and DPS gear in PVP is normal and great especially for huttball.

In PVE if you are not a tank you don't use Dark Charge. Period.

[BlameSociety]

I'm one of those Darkness Sins in DPS PVP gear. When I play PVE, I queue as a tank and I haven't had any problems tanking any of the Heroic 4s and Tier 1 HM FPs (no LI and no Ops).

My point is: The Charge decides your role, not the gear. So Darkness -> Tank.

[RefugeASSASSIN]

First of all, if he's doing collicoid he's not 50 therefore not wearing stalker gear, and why would having stalker gear mean they dont get much of a bonus in other stances?? Stalker is a dps set, and yes you do lose a lot of damage being in dark charge, 5% to be exact.

 

I was referring to end game obvriously. As for that 5%, ive never seen that difference cause any issues on anything other then LI or HM Ops so on anything else its not that much of a difference.

[PlagaNerezza]

He's not mischarged. He's off tanking. If you are struggling on any HM flashpoint that is probably why. If you are a tank and cannot hold threat against an off tank you are a crappy tank and should quit. The only way your failing is not knowing where your taunt button is located on your keyboard.

 

Instructing your healer not to heal your off tank is dumb. If I off-tank for you I run a 23/17/1 spec with a shield. I can usually keep myself alive along with more party members by taunting random stuff that heads to healers/ranged dps. I can help take pressure off your sorry under geared tank by grabbing threat when you or the PUG healer you are rocking get screwed up. I can hit 5k crit hit mauls. I mitigate a ton of aoe damage. I can fade out/in to allow the healer to breath a minute in a 4 man group to catch me and resume dpsing.

 

But ya. Tell your noob healer not to heal the off-tank in a 4 man HM flashpoint. Tell him to run a pure dps class because you don't know how to off-tank/dps.

 

There is nothing wrong with a tanksin rocking dps gear rolling in tank stance. Does it "always" make sense. No. Does it mean I need to explain to every pve "rockstar" how my tanksin will more easily help a group accomplish the exact samething, just slightly slower on the damage, with reduced deaths for the group?

 

Apparently, judging by this thread only special needs players use an off-tank in pve.

[Talonwk]

He's not mischarged. He's off tanking. If you are struggling on any HM flashpoint that is probably why. If you are a tank and cannot hold threat against an off tank you are a crappy tank and should quit. The only way your failing is not knowing where your taunt button is located on your keyboard.

 

Instructing your healer not to heal your off tank is dumb. If I off-tank for you I run a 23/17/1 spec with a shield. I can usually keep myself alive along with more party members by taunting random stuff that heads to healers/ranged dps. I can help take pressure off your sorry under geared tank by grabbing threat when you or the PUG healer you are rocking get screwed up. I can hit 5k crit hit mauls. I mitigate a ton of aoe damage. I can fade out/in to allow the healer to breath a minute in a 4 man group to catch me and resume dpsing.

 

But ya. Tell your noob healer not to heal the off-tank in a 4 man HM flashpoint. Tell him to run a pure dps class because you don't know how to off-tank/dps.

 

There is nothing wrong with a tanksin rocking dps gear rolling in tank stance. Does it "always" make sense. No. Does it mean I need to explain to every pve "rockstar" how my tanksin will more easily help a group accomplish the exact samething, just slightly slower on the damage, with reduced deaths for the group?

 

Apparently, judging by this thread only special needs players use an off-tank in pve.

 

Where did the OP say he was struggling with the HM flashpoint or maintaining agro? In fact he mentioned that an off-tank shouldn't be needed with a good tank and he said he was okay. He never mentioned wiping to anything at all. You are assuming a lot from his post that simply is not there. Any half competent group can do any flashpoint with no deaths and you sir are just slowing them down with this off-tank nonsense. You're not tanking and you're not DPSing so in my book you are worthless when I can vote kick you and replace with a DPS who can kill stuff faster. Last time I checked you don't que as an off-tank and your role is to either DPS or tank not kinda a little bit of both.

 

In addition, if you are taking too much damage from AOE as a dps then you are just bad. You shouldn't need to spec into tanking cause you can't avoid simple mechanics. You are joking yourself if you think you are helping your healers by being in a tank stance for a HM Flashpoint.

 

Yes, only special needs players use an offtank when it comes to HM Flashpoints. Even KP and EV don't need an offtank . Operations are the only time a second tank or an off-tank should ever be used, period.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Talonwk

[verfallen]

He's not mischarged. He's off tanking. If you are struggling on any HM flashpoint that is probably why. If you are a tank and cannot hold threat against an off tank you are a crappy tank and should quit. The only way your failing is not knowing where your taunt button is located on your keyboard.

 

Instructing your healer not to heal your off tank is dumb. If I off-tank for you I run a 23/17/1 spec with a shield. I can usually keep myself alive along with more party members by taunting random stuff that heads to healers/ranged dps. I can help take pressure off your sorry under geared tank by grabbing threat when you or the PUG healer you are rocking get screwed up. I can hit 5k crit hit mauls. I mitigate a ton of aoe damage. I can fade out/in to allow the healer to breath a minute in a 4 man group to catch me and resume dpsing.

 

But ya. Tell your noob healer not to heal the off-tank in a 4 man HM flashpoint. Tell him to run a pure dps class because you don't know how to off-tank/dps.

 

There is nothing wrong with a tanksin rocking dps gear rolling in tank stance. Does it "always" make sense. No. Does it mean I need to explain to every pve "rockstar" how my tanksin will more easily help a group accomplish the exact samething, just slightly slower on the damage, with reduced deaths for the group?

 

Apparently, judging by this thread only special needs players use an off-tank in pve.

 

 

Actually ******* with the wrong charge DO exist.

 

Now tough lets set something straight : if as a DPS you got into tank-stance, you are going to reduce your dps, through the 5%, sure, but also through your spec losing synergy. However, you will STILL hold a crapload of crit, surge and power.

 

That makes you, as you very nicely say, a DPS that do 10k threat on a maul crit. I'd very much like to see how a tank is supposed to hold that in between taunts. If he also use it just to keep the mob he is focusing, thats a taunt that isn't availaible to grab that mob coming from the healer.

 

 

And before you argue, sin charge mechanic with the 100 cost force prevent you changing charge on a whim in battle, so if you plan to "offtank" you need Dark Charge on already.

 

Never I would go up to induction for PVE tanking, thats just making it harder on the MT if I'm not being focused, and harder on the healer if I got a boss to take care off.

 

 

As for flashpoint, taunt np to help the tank if a small mob's going for the healer but mostly, what I see more often is DPS jumping the big guy rather than clear the thrash, forcing me to take care of it with the healer, leaving me with 3-4 mobs to tank for 30 second rather than 1-2.

 

In FP, there is no such thing as "offtanking" other than allowing a sturdier class like PTs, jugs or annihilation spec mara to get the threat on the mob they are fighting if they are geared enough to handle it. Seeing as my sorc can handle one or two unhappy mobs with it (say one strong one normal in HM FP) I'm fairly sure an offtank is uneeded unless the tank is really bad, and even then, you just need a new tank.

[Cowflab]

He's not mischarged. He's off tanking. If you are struggling on any HM flashpoint that is probably why. If you are a tank and cannot hold threat against an off tank you are a crappy tank and should quit. The only way your failing is not knowing where your taunt button is located on your keyboard.

 

Instructing your healer not to heal your off tank is dumb. If I off-tank for you I run a 23/17/1 spec with a shield. I can usually keep myself alive along with more party members by taunting random stuff that heads to healers/ranged dps. I can help take pressure off your sorry under geared tank by grabbing threat when you or the PUG healer you are rocking get screwed up. I can hit 5k crit hit mauls. I mitigate a ton of aoe damage. I can fade out/in to allow the healer to breath a minute in a 4 man group to catch me and resume dpsing.

 

But ya. Tell your noob healer not to heal the off-tank in a 4 man HM flashpoint. Tell him to run a pure dps class because you don't know how to off-tank/dps.

 

There is nothing wrong with a tanksin rocking dps gear rolling in tank stance. Does it "always" make sense. No. Does it mean I need to explain to every pve "rockstar" how my tanksin will more easily help a group accomplish the exact samething, just slightly slower on the damage, with reduced deaths for the group?

 

Apparently, judging by this thread only special needs players use an off-tank in pve.

 

Tldr; I'm one of the bad assassins who uses dark charge while queuing as a dps and I seriously just tried to justify using an "off tank" in a HM flashpoint. In no uncertain words... Deeeeeeeeerpity derp derp.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Cowflab

[MantorokTwelve]

In FP, there is no such thing as "offtanking" other than allowing a sturdier class like PTs, jugs or annihilation spec mara to get the threat on the mob they are fighting if they are geared enough to handle it. Seeing as my sorc can handle one or two unhappy mobs with it (say one strong one normal in HM FP) I'm fairly sure an offtank is uneeded unless the tank is really bad, and even then, you just need a new tank.

 

This. Only real "off-tank" is a dps that is overgeared enough to handle a mob by itself. I take care of trash myself as a rage jugg when the tank is going too slow or generally being incompetent not holding AOE threat well. Flashpoint off tanking just means you're compensating for the real tank's inability to do a very simple job.

[spond]

This. Only real "off-tank" is a dps that is overgeared enough to handle a mob by itself. I take care of trash myself as a rage jugg when the tank is going too slow or generally being incompetent not holding AOE threat well. Flashpoint off tanking just means you're compensating for the real tank's inability to do a very simple job.

 

Deception can "offtank" as long as they have dark embrace up. When that goes down, it's a whole different story. Good deceptions are great for Burst DPS and towards the end of the boss fight. Good Madness assassins are A) AWESOME players B) hard to come bye C) more squishy than Deceptions(that are played correctly).

 

Sith assassin is a popular class and much like Mara's played poorly by those that are not doing their research.