Pink-Purple color crystal grade 56 at lv10?

[pudim]

Last night I was doing some WZs when a guy showed up with 2 pink-purple color crystals, he was a lv11 sentinel

and as I inspected him I noticed his both crystals showed at grade 56 with 41 critical rating on them

Is this intended?

Due to the bolster mechanic of the WZs he got a pretty huge buff because he was using a "lv50 item" at lv11

[jgoldsack]

Last night I was doing some WZs when a guy showed up with 2 pink-purple color crystals, he was a lv11 sentinel

and as I inspected him I noticed his both crystals showed at grade 56 with 41 critical rating on them

Is this intended?

Due to the bolster mechanic of the WZs he got a pretty huge buff because he was using a "lv50 item" at lv11

 

by design. It is intended.

[Maxumus]

Last night I was doing some WZs when a guy showed up with 2 pink-purple color crystals, he was a lv11 sentinel

and as I inspected him I noticed his both crystals showed at grade 56 with 41 critical rating on them

Is this intended?

Due to the bolster mechanic of the WZs he got a pretty huge buff because he was using a "lv50 item" at lv11

 

It's working as intended and no he does not get a huge buff. Bolster scales it's buff based on item level and stats so higher level items get less of a buff than lower level items. Plus +41 to any stat is a minimal increase to players which is why they were put in without it affecting balance.

[ckoneful]

It's working as intended and no he does not get a huge buff. Bolster scales it's buff based on item level and stats so higher level items get less of a buff than lower level items. Plus +41 to any stat is a minimal increase to players which is why they were put in without it affecting balance.

 

41 expertise is pretty huge for most classes at low lvls IIRC though.

 

82 actually, since it's 2 items with it.

[Vandicus]

41 expertise is pretty huge for most classes at low lvls IIRC though.

 

82 actually, since it's 2 items with it.

 

Expertise is only relevant in warzones, and bolster does trivialize it.

 

 

They plan to separate these cosmetic crystals from stat crystals(this is a general game change and not restrictive to the Cartel market crystals). Eventually we'll have crystals which are purely for stats, and crystals which are purely for looks.

[Valethar]

They plan to separate these cosmetic crystals from stat crystals(this is a general game change and not restrictive to the Cartel market crystals). Eventually we'll have crystals which are purely for stats, and crystals which are purely for looks.

 

Citation needed. Have you a link to this, or is it speculation?

[Kashley]

I disagree @ level 12 with one expertise crystal I hit a 5.2k heal on a sage earning a surgeon medal. Its over powered as all get out, I cant imagine how over powered it is for people weilding two of them.

[EATtheDEAD]

The theory that bolster off sets the effects of these CM crystals is false.

 

The expertise crystals make a huge difference in pre 50 warzones. I put one on my saber and one on my shield, then stacked exp enhancements in my armors when I hit 41 and I had over 200 expertise. I literally could kill entire teams on my own, as an assassin of course.

 

and no, it is true because I literally did it. Before the exp stacking I did ok, afterwards I was a wrecking ball.

[Kazaganthis]

Citation needed. Have you a link to this, or is it speculation?

 

Its false. They said they thought about doing it around 1.2 or 1.3 but decided not to as it was too big of a change and they didnt have time for it. They were busy making the CM and wondering why they didnt kill WoW right away instead of fixing bugs and putting out content.

[AboB]

Its false. They said they thought about doing it around 1.2 or 1.3 but decided not to as it was too big of a change and they didnt have time for it. They were busy making the CM and wondering why they didnt kill WoW right away instead of fixing bugs and putting out content.

 

I'm not too sure about that. I don't keep a chest full of interesting links, but I recall reading about these changes recently. Like, within the last month and a half.

[MorgonKara]

The theory that bolster off sets the effects of these CM crystals is false.

 

The expertise crystals make a huge difference in pre 50 warzones. I put one on my saber and one on my shield, then stacked exp enhancements in my armors when I hit 41 and I had over 200 expertise. I literally could kill entire teams on my own, as an assassin of course.

 

and no, it is true because I literally did it. Before the exp stacking I did ok, afterwards I was a wrecking ball.

 

Absolutely, the WZ bolster does not effect Expertise. Expertise has a huge effect on your character in PvP, especially when you have it and others do not (like in pre lvl 50 WZs) Classic example of pay-to-win from the cash shop. You're talking like a 5% boost in damage, healing and armor vs other players just from having those 2 cash shop crystals.

Pay to win I say!

Edited December 14, 2012 by MorgonKara

[symke]

The idiocy of this idea is still something I don't understand well.

Why was it necessary? PVP in this game is great because it gives you an added feeling of growth. With each level you get stronger, survive longer and are of more help to your group. With each of my characters I started playing in WZ's with level 12. I knew I will not be the best, but I also knew I will become better. Isn't that what leveling is about?

 

What did they think to achieve by giving level 10 an item which takes much, much higher level to craft?

If they want to cuddle those that don't like PVE, give them an option to become 50 from start.

Level requirement is one of the basic principles of the game. Now they have invalidated this system.

[MillionsKNives]

I'm not too sure about that. I don't keep a chest full of interesting links, but I recall reading about these changes recently. Like, within the last month and a half.

 

They actually mentioned it as part of their response about the +41 crystals being available at such low levels. I only remember them saying that they were considering that change, not that it would definitely happen.

Edited December 14, 2012 by MillionsKNives

[darklordpotter]

They actually mentioned it as part of their response about the +41 crystals being available at such low levels. I only remember them saying that they were considering that change, not that it would definitely happen.

 

This if memory serves they were talking about removing stats from crystals period so you just picked the colour you fancied with no mechanical effect - of course this was before they put them in the CM

[CelCawdro]

Expertise is only relevant in warzones, and bolster does trivialize it.

 

 

They plan to separate these cosmetic crystals from stat crystals(this is a general game change and not restrictive to the Cartel market crystals). Eventually we'll have crystals which are purely for stats, and crystals which are purely for looks.

 

Sorry, but that's not the plan. Don't spread misinformation. The developers stated that they "considered" doing so, but they've considered a lot of things they've never followed through on. This particular change is something they've said they're "considering" to placate us since the modding system was first introduced in beta.

 

One would think that the stats could easily be shifted to barrels/hilts, but apparently it's more complex than that. Instead, the "considering" line is something that's been fed to us for well over a year in order to placate the rage.

Edited December 14, 2012 by CelCawdro

[Vandicus]

Sorry, but that's not the plan. Don't spread misinformation. The developers stated that they "considered" doing so, but they've considered a lot of things they've never followed through on. One would think that the stats could easily be shifted to barrels/hilts, but apparently it's more complex than that.

 

Are you referring to the much older talks about this, or the one's made more recently in response to the concerns of statted crystals in the CM?

 

I'll be sourcing these later today, but dev tracker is acting weird.

[CelCawdro]

Are you referring to the much older talks about this, or the one's made more recently in response to the concerns of statted crystals in the CM?

 

I'll be sourcing these later today, but dev tracker is acting weird.

 

Much older talks, as well as the recent elaboration on the impact of the Cartel Shop crystals on the game's balance. The sticky was on the Public Test forum, which has since been cleared. That's why you aren't finding it. And again, not once did they state any intent to remove stats from colour crystals. It was merely a consideration, and it's been a perpetual consideration since colour crystals themselves were introduced. It's never going to develop into an actual change.

[Zataos]

Absolutely, the WZ bolster does not effect Expertise. Expertise has a huge effect on your character in PvP, especially when you have it and others do not (like in pre lvl 50 WZs) Classic example of pay-to-win from the cash shop. You're talking like a 5% boost in damage, healing and armor vs other players just from having those 2 cash shop crystals.

Pay to win I say!

 

That's nonsense, bolster certainly does scale these crystals, I have 2 on my Mara, at lvl 20is it gave my a 4.5% dmg boost in pvp, by lvl 40 it is 2.3% boost, no different than if they were power or crit at your max lvl (lvl 23 crystal when your lvl 23).

[uniz]

there was a rather lengthy yellow post on the pts forums about this but it can no longer be accessed. it was something they looked into and determined to go ahead with since they felt it provided a rather low advantage. the specifics i cant remember but i just wished it was still there for most of you to read.

 

in other words it was known, looked into and proceeded to be released.

[Andryah]

The idiocy of this idea is still something I don't understand well.

Why was it necessary? PVP in this game is great because it gives you an added feeling of growth. With each level you get stronger, survive longer and are of more help to your group. With each of my characters I started playing in WZ's with level 12. I knew I will not be the best, but I also knew I will become better. Isn't that what leveling is about?

 

What did they think to achieve by giving level 10 an item which takes much, much higher level to craft?

If they want to cuddle those that don't like PVE, give them an option to become 50 from start.

Level requirement is one of the basic principles of the game. Now they have invalidated this system.

 

In the interest of moving past rhetoric and hyperbole on this subject......the answer (directly from Damion Schubert) is here, quoted in it's entirety:

Damion Schubert

So the other bit of discussion to have is about the color crystals. I thought in this case that I would start the discussion with all of you, so that you could understand our logic and guide our thinking.

 

Currently, these crystals appear in cartel packs with a level 10 requirement, and on the store with a level 35 requirement, in order to access stats roughly equal to a standard level 50 color crystal. It's worth noting that color crystals are something that the itemization team stopped improving the itemization of shortly after launch, because people really hated losing their signature lightsaber color because it was no longer Best in Slot. We have, incidentally, seriously entertained removing all itemization from color crystals entirely (it makes many problems go away for us), but we didn't have the time to make such a large change on itemization before this patch went live.

 

The reason why we put these in with low level requirement is pretty simple: getting an item you can't use in the Cartel Packs really sucks. It's the same reason we pursued the tech that allowed us to make mounts adaptive - we expect a very large influx of new players when we launch free to play, and those guys opening cartel packs to get items they can't use for months (literally, for casual players!) is a negative experience, not a positive one.

 

So after discussing with the balance team, we decided to put these in with lower level requirements, with the following reasoning:

•The balance math shows the bump to be pretty good at level 10 (not something the balance team was uncomfortable with, though), but pretty unremarkable by the time you hit, say, level 30 or so. Since pretty much open world PvP doesn't happen at those low levels, the impact on open world PvP is pretty much negligable.

•The way the math works out, the benefit pretty much washed away by the bolster system in warzones, which means there is no significant advantage there.

•The crystals are exactly as good as end-game color crystals, which means they have ZERO impact on endgame activities (level 50 ranked warzones, operations, heroic flashpoints, etc). We're still philosophically avoiding putting any stat advantage at this level that subscribers cannot earn through reasonable normal play.

•The fact that these items are fully tradeable means that players who do think there's a balance advantage here can acquire them on the GTN for pure credits without spending a single cartel coin.

 

 

The net result of all of this is that slapping one of these color crystals in your saber at level 10 effectively makes levelling from levels 10 up somewhat easier, with the benefits tapering off quickly as the player levels up, and eventually zeroing out altogether. We felt, in general, that that was okay. The focus groups that we ran also seemed to think it was okay, as long as we avoided endgame power.

 

We are more than open to having a discussion about this and other options here (with the proviso that we have very limited time to make changes before this goes live!) if this continues to be perceived as an issue.

 

Source: http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/22126-bioware-outlines-cartel-market-crystal [Extracted by Darthhater from the original on the PTS forum]

 

While quoting Damion here will not change the minds of anyone who is resolved to remain incensed about this, the fact remains that they did talk about this in some detail to the players back in October, they have explained their rationale and analysis of any impact on game balance, AND NOTE that they play tested with focus groups as well and obtained their input prior to even putting it on PTS.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Andryah

[Andryah]

there was a rather lengthy yellow post on the pts forums about this but it can no longer be accessed. it was something they looked into and determined to go ahead with since they felt it provided a rather low advantage. the specifics i cant remember but i just wished it was still there for most of you to read.

 

in other words it was known, looked into and proceeded to be released.

 

Yeah, its unfortunate that they flush PTS forum posts after a patch (they should preserve Dev posts in particular IMO precisely for when these crash and burn threads pop), but Darthhater captured it and preserved it (see my post immediately below).

Edited December 14, 2012 by Andryah

[Nemmar]

I disagree @ level 12 with one expertise crystal I hit a 5.2k heal on a sage earning a surgeon medal. Its over powered as all get out, I cant imagine how over powered it is for people weilding two of them.

 

You assume much. You know theres talents some classes have that increase their healing received. You have to present better evidance than that.

[MaximusRex]

Its false. They said they thought about doing it around 1.2 or 1.3 but decided not to as it was too big of a change and they didnt have time for it. They were busy making the CM and wondering why they didnt kill WoW right away instead of fixing bugs and putting out content.

 

This is false. It came up when F2P launched and they said they would like to separate them at some point in the future, hurting Artifice is a concern they also gave related to making the change.

 

Feel free to search back through Dev Tracker, its in there somewhere.

[CelCawdro]

This is false. It came up when F2P launched and they said they would like to separate them at some point in the future, hurting Artifice is a concern they also gave related to making the change.

 

Feel free to search back through Dev Tracker, its in there somewhere.

 

Andy quoted it. They "entertained" the thought. As they did from the moment they implemented colour crystals with stats attached. Every time the issue becomes apparent, they mention that they are considering or have considered the option, but nothing ever comes of it for the reason you mentioned, among others.

[Kashley]

You assume much. You know theres talents some classes have that increase their healing received. You have to present better evidance than that.

 

Ok better evidence; the heal was on my friend who was also in the warzone with me as I basically was running around pocket healing him. He was a level 12 also, which means no he didn't have anything trained yet that would boost his heals that he received from me.

 

From personal experience I have leveled a (1)-sage/ (1) Inquisitor, a (2)-operative/(1)-smuggler healer and a (1) bounty hunter and (1)trooper healer on several different servers as server pops dwindled.. All to 50 and most in full BM. OF THOSE CHARACTERS, never one time while healing sub 50 did I ever receive a surgeons medal. That's not a fluke. I equip this new crystal and all of a sudden I pop heals like this? Wrong... The crystal absolutely effects sub-50 PvP. I even took a screen shot because I knew no one would believe it. At this point the more I PvP I can tell you without a doubt this crystal ABSOLUTELY effects PvP. To claim otherwise is ignorance or just plain incompetency regarding the stat boost.

 

http://i46.tinypic.com/mcu6gk.jpg