Minimize the importance which the "Expertise" stat has in the game.

[Styxx]

Correct. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

It is for the pure PvP players.

[Laurreth]

Correct. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

Yes there is. It would make being competitive in PvP a very long stretch in a part of the game that you may not like, and would make PvP very much gear-based. Currently, you are only limited by your gear until you obtain a reasonable number of commendation items, which can be done in a matter of days if you're a frequent player, and doesn't even require being particularly good at it, so even if you get pummeled in your Recruit gear, you still acquire commendations at a reasonable pace.

 

TL;DR: some people don't like PvE, why would anyone force them to play it and make everyone suffer as a consequence?

[NinjaApacHe]

Correct. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

You would like it, wouldn't you? I'm sorry it is not working like you would appreciate. Grind if you want to be competitive, like we all did.

Edited December 12, 2012 by NinjaApacHe

[NummSaul]

Boo hoo. You want the best gear for pve, you get it through pve content. You want the best gear for pvp, you get it trhough pvp. You get free entry level gear now going into pve at 50 so yes, you will be albe to pve you just have to change your gear when you change your role.

 

I agree with this,

 

I often get grouped with pvp geared players... in FP's and it sucks. ( example: last night a tank in full pvp gear died so many times it was ridiculous, the healer could not keep his *** alive and so he left in a rage.)

If you want to play pve content... use some bloody pve gear.

[Briljin]

Sure lets remove expertise from PvP gear and instead just add the raiding tier armor for warzone tokens. That will make you PvE raiders so happy... Expertise serves it's purpose, to draw a clear distinction between game play styles and their rewards.

[MastaKorgy]

You people can ***** all you want, for the record there has already been mention of either removing expertise entirely, or changing it so significantly that it will do just as I suggested or close to it.

 

Morons.

Edited December 12, 2012 by MastaKorgy

[Briljin]

You people can ***** all you want, for the record there has already been mention of either removing expertise entirely, or changing it so significantly that it will do just as I suggested or close to it.

 

Morons.

 

Actually they mentioned making the amount of expertise on PvP armor the same across all tiers. Then upgrades would only be about improving other stats. That is nothing like what you have suggested.

 

Moron.

[HarleysRule]

Didn't read thread so I'll just assume it's already been pointing out that soon ALL PVP GEAR WILL HAVE THE SAME EXPERTISE, so problem solved.

[Kubernetic]

And since there's no difference between Elite WH gear and regular WH gear now... just go buy a full WH set for 2000 comms or whatever it costs in total. You'll have the same amount of expertise as us. And we'll still rip you apart.

 

Edit: massive typing fail.

 

Which vendor is it that's selling an entire War Hero set for 2000 comms? I'd like to talk to that vendor... LOL

[Malkavier]

This is World of SWTOR, remember:

 

Gear: 99%

Skill: 1%

 

And this is why there will always be a separation of a single different stat between PvP and PvE.

 

Oh, and to those of you who would argue with this logic, consider:

 

If it weren't true, then you'd be playing in Recruit gear, with no augments, without complaining.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Malkavier

[aeterno]

Which vendor is it that's selling an entire War Hero set for 2000 comms? I'd like to talk to that vendor... LOL

 

If he meant WZ comms equivalent of 2k rated comms (x3) he probably is not far from the truth.

[Laurreth]

This is World of SWTOR, remember:

 

Gear: 99%

Skill: 1%

 

(blah blah play in Recruit, ed.)

 

Recruit is only now in a bad place, but apart from that you're not making much sense. The stat difference between the two "proper" sets actually got a lot smaller with the change to WH/EWH. If you're entirely gear-bound, I'd suggest adding a little skill to your playstyle, it's at least 50/50 (or closer to 30/70 when you're in a semi-organised group).

[Goretzu]

It is precisely because PvE gear is too powerful in PvP that they introduced the Expertise stat.

That is why WoW introduced resilience. Before resilience, back in vanilla WoW, hardcore PvE raiders packing T1 to T3 raiding gear could stomp players in PvP. It was considered so unfair that they had to introduce resilience.

 

Well to be fair the PvP guilds usually stomped the PvE Raid guilds who were in much better gear than them (usually making them give up, sit down and /cry ).

 

But yes the PvE Raid guilds stomped everyone else because of their PvE Raid gear.

 

 

 

But anyway a PvP stat is a nessicary evil for the reasons you mention, only games like WAR have managed to avoid it by coming at things from entirely the opposite angle.

[mattycutts]

Regardless of why, that is retarded and is no excuse for such a stat. If pvp is too hard for some players, then they should create different pvp groups for them. For the record, pvp is already messed up because once a level 49 player reaches level 50 they get completely slaughtered in level 50 pvp, and that already defeats your explanation for the expertise stat entirely.

 

I am not saying they should remove the stat, but I would like to use my elite war hero gear to run night mare modes, or my dread master gear to do equally as fine in pvp.

 

Most mmo's ive played have had similar stat to seperate pvp and pve gear so this is nothing new at all,

 

My self i pvp all time mostly with what time i have online, i started back to have my recruit mark 2 version starter gear, yeah i got stomped alot by the more eleite teams in pvp but i slugged it out for a couple of weeks till i had my full BM gear and augmented it all now almost full WH after a few days and i hold my own. Please never remove expertise from gear it is needed. as for pvp to pve hears a suggestion of what i did, i spent a week doing guild raids and got almost full rekata gear so now i pvp 99% of time and hop in occasional raid when im really needed. There is zero need to remove expertise.

[AboB]

This is World of SWTOR, remember:

 

Gear: 99%

Skill: 1%

 

And this is why there will always be a separation of a single different stat between PvP and PvE.

 

Oh, and to those of you who would argue with this logic, consider:

 

If it weren't true, then you'd be playing in Recruit gear, with no augments, without complaining.

 

Um, logically, there are cosmetic differences that would change the whole argument.

[Cubert]

Correct. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

So, people who raid and get every piece of the new PvE set should have the advantage in PvP? As opposed to people who purely PvP? You're basically saying that they have an unfair advantage and you think that you should have that unfair advantage instead. What you're saying is you want the tables turned, and people who only PvP should have inferior gear in PvP than you.

[MastaKorgy]

So, people who raid and get every piece of the new PvE set should have the advantage in PvP? As opposed to people who purely PvP? You're basically saying that they have an unfair advantage and you think that you should have that unfair advantage instead. What you're saying is you want the tables turned, and people who only PvP should have inferior gear in PvP than you.

 

No, that's not it. What I am saying is that people who pvp, should be rewarded gear that can also pve.

[Shingara]

No they shouldnt, people who pve at top level should attain gear for there level of pve dificulty, people who pvp need to have gear that means they arnt steamrolled by people in the top end pve gear. how is that hard to work out, and as such people who pvp shouldnt expect pvp gear to give them a leap jump to the hardest pve content and bypass everything. it works both ways for a reason.

 

There is nothing and i repeat nothing stoping people from doing both pve and pvp to attain different sets, so if you want both sets work for it like everyone else.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Shingara

[xorcist]

It makes perfect sense. If you pve constantly, you shouldn't have immediate access to the same gear someone who does pvp exclusively has. It's not really hard to understand.

 

I have a secret to tell you...

 

Getting rid of expertise won't make you any better at pvp. Sorry. I know that you think it will, but it wont. You will still get owned and make threads like this.

 

And I have a secret to tell you.

 

You only wish Expertise didn't make a face rolling noob better at pvp. Sorry but it does. Because it was all about the gear. It made Fresh level 50's virtually unplayable in Warzones. Even with the Recruit gear the offered. The margin was too great, and they knew that. Result, undesirable participation and no fun. I believe now that gap has improved somewhat. I have not fully tested it yet.

[ktkenshinx]

No, that's not it. What I am saying is that people who pvp, should be rewarded gear that can also pve.

There is definitely an MMO type of model that might allow for this. Guild Wars 2 comes to mind. Unfortunately, GW2 was designed from the beginning to allow this sort of cross PvP/PvE gameplay. That kind of model is probably the model of the future. SWTOR was not now, nor was it ever, designed with that model in mind.

 

Currently, PvE rewards hardcore Operations/Daily grinding. You get better gear so you can defeat harder content. Similarly, PvP rewards consistent and frequent warzone gameplay.

 

If PvP players received gear that made them competitive with the top tier of PvE gamers, there would be no incentive to grind out dailies and do constant hardmode re-runs. Black Hole runs, Belsavis quests, flashpoints, etc. would all just be less time efficient ways to earn gear than a bunch of lvl 50 warzones. This would undercut a huge swath of the endgame content.

[MastaKorgy]

There is definitely an MMO type of model that might allow for this. Guild Wars 2 comes to mind. Unfortunately, GW2 was designed from the beginning to allow this sort of cross PvP/PvE gameplay. That kind of model is probably the model of the future. SWTOR was not now, nor was it ever, designed with that model in mind.

 

Currently, PvE rewards hardcore Operations/Daily grinding. You get better gear so you can defeat harder content. Similarly, PvP rewards consistent and frequent warzone gameplay.

 

If PvP players received gear that made them competitive with the top tier of PvE gamers, there would be no incentive to grind out dailies and do constant hardmode re-runs. Black Hole runs, Belsavis quests, flashpoints, etc. would all just be less time efficient ways to earn gear than a bunch of lvl 50 warzones. This would undercut a huge swath of the endgame content.

 

 

 

Are you telling me there will be no incentive to do top tier PvE runs if I were to be rewarded with very good gear capable of top tier PvE when playing PvP? That is complete BS.

 

I play PvP often, and I play because it is fun, and because I want to test my skills against other players. Similarly, I PvE because I find the uniqueness fun and I play it because I want to beat the unique preset fights I encounter there.

 

Since always however, I have been playing more PvP than PvE. My skills in PvP are extremely developed and that makes me feel good because it makes me feel like I have mastered the most important part of the game. But sometimes I want to know how it is to fight something a bit more static, just for the sake of smahing things. And the problem started right there. It felt to me like everything I have done and all the skills which I have developed while playing the important PvP part of the game were all for nothing just because my gear no longer worked.

 

I really don't like having to get myself completely unique gear just to be able to participate in the hard modes that I wanted to. I knew that to get a full Rakata set, I would have to complete 4 different operations, up to 8 times each, just to get the gear that I wanted. And the thing with operations is that you get sick of them after the second time. Unlike PvP, it is completely bland and static, and now to make it worse, you are telling me that my PvP gear does not work in PvE ?

 

To me the thing which makes the game great is doing bits of everything and knowing that it affects something else that I may go and do, but in order for that to work, everything has to be related to each other.

 

For the record, the fact that my PvP gear didn't work in PvE ops/flashpoints, actually stopped me from playing any ops/flashpoints for months before I finally convinced myself to give it a shot . But unlike before it was no longer for the fun of it, it was simply because I liked the looks of the Rakata chest piece more than the war hero one.

Edited December 17, 2012 by MastaKorgy

[Jawstheshark]

While the current pvp system is rife with balance issues, this is not one of them.

 

 

I fully agree that there needs to be a distinction between pvp and pve gear. Doing one activity should not yield rewards for the other. Otherwise the venue with the easiest path to gear becomes the core of what the game is about.

 

 

For SWTOR that distinction is Expertise.