fungihoujo Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 It's not AOE but people needs something to complain... After Smash nerf, let's fight to nerf who? Snipers and assassins. Hyperbole at its greatest- asking for an aoe, 6-8k auto crit ability to be nerfed is suddenly the same as asking for any ability to be nerfed in your eyes huh? Smart person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggz Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Smashers can do about 6-7k crits Which takes about 30-40% hp Problem obviously is operative healers. They move around too much for smashers. Nerf operatives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evanouss Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I don't understand where healers sense of entitlement comes from, 1v1 healers shouldn't be killable? that makes no sense. By that logic every healer could kill every class 1v1, albeit very slowly. Thats plain BS. Now healer that is protected, and peeled yes they should be unkillable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evanouss Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Hyperbole at its greatest- asking for an aoe, 6-8k auto crit ability to be nerfed is suddenly the same as asking for any ability to be nerfed in your eyes huh? Smart person. 6-8K auto crit smash? Are u in full recruit or worse? Against full WH, or even partial WH BM I average 4.5-5.5k damage tops that is if they arent bubble, protected , under some self damage mitigation ability. Smash is just FotM atm, it needs adjusting yes, its too available with full Singularity thats the problem. Nerf singularity a bit or raise the CD on smash a bit., but dont mess with the damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rilfan Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Smash spec is a problem when people dont think.If u cc,taunt the smasher and protect your healer the smasher cant do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Smash spec is a problem when people dont think.If u cc,taunt the smasher and protect your healer the smasher cant do anything. and what do you do when there are 3 smashers? and an active tank who rotates guard and actively throws out taunts? a typical "competitive" rank composition has at least 2, sometimes 3 smash monkeys. assuming they coordinate their targets, which is highly likely, that is ~15-20k AOE damage every smash. yep, totally balanced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Dynas Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I really feel like I have to play focus now. ***. I really enjoyed my watchman before this. Then tried combat, but even that doesn't come close to focus. The ability to simply leap in and do >5k hits on everyone is just too nice. As pointed out in this post. A single target hard hitter is not the same as one that hits a piile of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthRaika Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) I don't think it is as much a question of being OP since I don't think smashers are OP if by themselves. It is a question about enjoyable pvp. This is the same thing with bubble stun. Bubble stun is not OP. You sacrifice to get it anyway. However, bublestun and having several smashers on the same team tend to make for boring and low skill required pvp matches. They just aren't very fun. I think this is the way to think about it. It is not that jug/sorcs need a nerf it is just they need some redesigning. Edited December 9, 2012 by DarthRaika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I don't think it is as much a question of being OP since I don't think smashers are OP if by themselves. It is a question about enjoyable pvp. This is the same thing with bubble stun. Bubble stun is not OP. You sacrifice to get it anyway. However, bublestun and having several smashers on the same team tend to make for boring and low skill required pvp matches. They just aren't very fun. I think this is the way to think about it. It is not that jug/sorcs need a nerf it is just they need some redesigning. bubble stun needs to be fixed. the stun should only apply to the caster; allowing them to create an army of stun machines is a prime of example of bioware's lack of foresight. as others have pointed out, smash monkeys are broken. the mechanics of their class allow them to completely forgo stacking crit, whereas all other DPS classes must stack some. no other spec is capable of simply leaping in and hitting multiple opponents for a 5-6k or more. competitive environments almost always ensure that you will be dealing with more than one smash monkey. you dont balance them game around non-competitive play. you balance it around what can be done at the highest skill level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerJBD Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I'm guessing the devs read the litany of posts about lolsmash and come away thinking they need to nerf DPS sorcs and sages. That's how it usually works. They are going to fix bubble stun. They've already said as much. They still haven't even acknowledged that derp-smash is a problem. Funny to me that sorcs and sages got nerfed in 1.2 because they were doing instant-cast 2k TK waves/chain lightnings, but it is perfectly OK for Marauders and Sentinels to AOE auto-crit for 6k at a time. I'm sure marauders will get a free self heal and the ability to cloak while they smash in the next patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lensmo Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Yeah we watched a team on our server throw our half of their regulars to bring in more smashers. Guess what they got a LOT harder to beat, but the new players aren't any better at pvp than the old. Smash causes too much of a comp > players issue. Bubble stun is the only way to control the smashes, and it isn't enough. That was your ranked team... Otherwise most of the teams just added 1 or maybe 2 smash juggs. marauders, and they got them from respecs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rilfan Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 and what do you do when there are 3 smashers? and an active tank who rotates guard and actively throws out taunts? a typical "competitive" rank composition has at least 2, sometimes 3 smash monkeys. assuming they coordinate their targets, which is highly likely, that is ~15-20k AOE damage every smash. yep, totally balanced I dont say the game is balanced and focus/smash does need nerf but if people play smart they can reduce the damage and even lock those smashers completely (happened to me 2 days ago) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 smash is out of hand...because that's all ppl are playing and it does good dmg and it's aoe w/o a reticule, so it's very difficult to avoid. but whoever said there's no point in playing any other spec (mara/sent), I guarantee a good rated team with a carnage/combat will wreck your team that foolishly thought 1 extra smasher was more important than predation/transcendence. anyway, I play on a PvE server, so it's not like I think we have the leet of the leet PvP, but back before the last server merger when people were still queueing for rated, I was on a solid/respected pvp team. we struggled mightily with composition problems (consistently finding a combat sent killed us in every wz). blah blah blah. here's the point: probably our best dpser was a focus guardian. he didn't do it alone. team game. yada yada. our best dps was a focus guardian. the spec was probably fine. iunno. i chose sent, and I haven't made my jugg yet, so I don't know the AC intimately, but our best dpser was a focus guardian not a burner (assault/pyro). I don't like the nerfs to assault/pyro. I thought the 100% application of the dot being on an instant cast abil was the major problem. the nerf they made seems to have been done to protect ranged units, cuz they actually increased burst in the kill zone. that said, some sort of nerf was called for. on the other hand, I'm not sure why the buff for focus was called for. I'm sure that maras/sents weren't crying for it - they were sitting pretty with the other two trees. I've heard noise that the buff was more about pve. iunno. what I do know, is our best dps was focus. two of the best dpsers on my server were dps guardians (not even our guy). after the buff, i'm getting smashed by at least 3 ppl in every wz.. goddamn operatives! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I'm guessing the devs read the litany of posts about lolsmash and come away thinking they need to nerf DPS sorcs and sages. That's how it usually works. They are going to fix bubble stun. They've already said as much. They still haven't even acknowledged that derp-smash is a problem. Funny to me that sorcs and sages got nerfed in 1.2 because they were doing instant-cast 2k TK waves/chain lightnings, but it is perfectly OK for Marauders and Sentinels to AOE auto-crit for 6k at a time. I'm sure marauders will get a free self heal and the ability to cloak while they smash in the next patch. And the same people complaining about those 2k CLs are the ones now staunchly defending 6k+ auto crit aoes, I wonder why that is? Oh right- because it's mara/juggs. A class that has always been eager to whine at anyone else, but talk about their class and suddenly everything is perfectly balanced- even now, being FOTM for eight months- they can still whine about one of the worst classes in the game because they got something good- can't wait for mercs to get a good ability to marauders can start whining about them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 And the same people complaining about those 2k CLs are the ones now staunchly defending 6k+ auto crit aoes, I wonder why that is? Oh right- because it's mara/juggs. A class that has always been eager to whine at anyone else, but talk about their class and suddenly everything is perfectly balanced- even now, being FOTM for eight months- they can still whine about one of the worst classes in the game because they got something good- can't wait for mercs to get a good ability to marauders can start whining about them too. Don't worry, they will never give anything good to Mercs and Commandos. The iconic image of the stormtrooper is as lightsaber fodder for eager teenagers. The inconic image of the mercenary is a guy who gets accidently killed by a blind smuggler. Gotta honor your canon by keeping it iconic. Hence all that incredibly good looking consular gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluvi Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 smash is out of hand...because that's all ppl are playing and it does good dmg and it's aoe w/o a reticule, so it's very difficult to avoid. but whoever said there's no point in playing any other spec (mara/sent), I guarantee a good rated team with a carnage/combat will wreck your team that foolishly thought 1 extra smasher was more important than predation/transcendence. anyway, I play on a PvE server, so it's not like I think we have the leet of the leet PvP, but back before the last server merger when people were still queueing for rated, I was on a solid/respected pvp team. we struggled mightily with composition problems (consistently finding a combat sent killed us in every wz). blah blah blah. here's the point: probably our best dpser was a focus guardian. he didn't do it alone. team game. yada yada. our best dps was a focus guardian. the spec was probably fine. iunno. i chose sent, and I haven't made my jugg yet, so I don't know the AC intimately, but our best dpser was a focus guardian not a burner (assault/pyro). I don't like the nerfs to assault/pyro. I thought the 100% application of the dot being on an instant cast abil was the major problem. the nerf they made seems to have been done to protect ranged units, cuz they actually increased burst in the kill zone. that said, some sort of nerf was called for. on the other hand, I'm not sure why the buff for focus was called for. I'm sure that maras/sents weren't crying for it - they were sitting pretty with the other two trees. I've heard noise that the buff was more about pve. iunno. what I do know, is our best dps was focus. two of the best dpsers on my server were dps guardians (not even our guy). after the buff, i'm getting smashed by at least 3 ppl in every wz.. gosh darn operatives! lol The problem with your statement about marauders is that the ONLY reason you bring a carnage marauder is for predation, period. Their burst is far too easy to shut down, and their big bursty abiltiy (force scream) only does comparable damage to smash, and it hits only one target. With the ability to field respec for free for subscribers (and I cant see any serious pvper not being subbed and having field respec), there is really no reason to go carnage unless you are in Huttball. Yes, in Huttball, carnage does wonders, and when you are there as a carnage marauder, your only purpose in life is to build stacks and give your ball runners predation (usually assassins or juggs), and occasionally help burst down the ball carrier. Carnage is good at this because it's burst ignores armor, which means it is good for burning down tanks, who will be carrying the ball. But on the whole, assassins and powertechs excel at returning the ball more because they have an instant, guaranteed kill move: Pull them in the fire and stun them, dead ball carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitrikzoltan Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I would actually increase the bubbles effectiveness a bit, but would make it so that the sorc can only use it on himself. Sorcerers need that tool, without it they would go down way easier. But if they can only use it on themselves, the bubble-stun fest ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragondar Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I played a DPS Commando and smash spec really does not hurt me that much (Defensive stim and kept up on my armor throughout my levels). The problem I have is with the damn snipers spamming 1 button that hits like a truck (snipe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I played a DPS Commando and smash spec really does not hurt me that much (Defensive stim and kept up on my armor throughout my levels). The problem I have is with the damn snipers spamming 1 button that hits like a truck (snipe). ahahah, snipers spamming snipe can you recommend me the same stuff that you are smoking? Snipe is the worst attack a sniper has. It is only used in MM spec and only as a proc attack that procs ambush and FT. Damage wise, energy wise it's the worst attack there. IF you, a heavy armor class player die to being repeatedly sniped.. then what will you do against a good sniper using all of his abilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacedemon Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 IF you, a heavy armor class player die to being repeatedly sniped.. then what will you do against a good sniper using all of his abilities? Post on the forums asking for Snipers to be nerfed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ycoga Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 smash is out of hand...because that's all ppl are playing and it does good dmg and it's aoe w/o a reticule http://www.thefreedictionary.com/reticule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Don't worry, they will never give anything good to Mercs and Commandos. The iconic image of the stormtrooper is as lightsaber fodder for eager teenagers. The inconic image of the mercenary is a guy who gets accidently killed by a blind smuggler. . Gotta admit- they nailed it. And all it takes to kill the galaxy's most powerful sorc is for a juggernaut to pick him up and drop him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randiesel Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 nerf operatives Spoken like a true marauder. Feels good having BW cater to your every outcry, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randiesel Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 http://www.thefreedictionary.com/reticule Lol I laughed so hard at that. Almost spit out coffee on my ipad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Dear OP: You make a very gross assumption that, without bubble stuns and derpsmash, PvP would be balanced and fun. Reality is, if Bioware nerfed both tomorrow, it would only be a matter of days before new OP abilities would be discovered and exploited for the next 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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