"Secrecy" policies of BW/EA :confused:

[Deshie]

They used to give quite a bit of detial on things that were a few months away, then when expectations weren't met they got blasted, that's why they don't bother, Gabe broke NDA and hasn't been heard from since, Rickman is more laid back about it.

 

Yes Yes YES! that totally explains everything! No it doesnt if you dont know who Rickman is and what he does then I can't help you. But don't worry in 6 months you will know.

[GrimInc]

I remember the days in beta that pretty much all armor sets were orange those were good times but then bioware removed majority of them and made armor how it is now. Beta testers said change it back since more customization is good! Yet they were ignored.

 

Oh yeah I remember all those nice titles in the game I used imperial scholar for my SI and SW but it was removed during the great beta title purge. Beta testers asked for them to be added back in they were ignored.

 

Oh I remember some awesome armor sets from beta you know all those cool armors we see in the story trailers and class trailers those nice star wars looking armor sets? The armor sets with loads of hood down robes for jedi? They were in beta but were removed and the current armors in the game were added. Lots of beta testers were upset and asked for them to be added back in but they were ignored again.....

 

Oh i remember that topic were SI players said that they received the lowest amount of dark side points out of ALL the classes and would have to grind black talon just to be able to use their DS1 saber at 16 while the rest of the classes could play normally. They were ignored again.... unfortunately.

 

I remember the old crafting system many beta testers enjoyed it then it was changed to the current crafting system in the game. Beta testers asked bioware to change it back they were ignored again.....

 

I remember those ****** dark and light side armor sets and I mean ****** that pure white jedi consular light side armor set was drool worthy. But dark and light armor sets were removed beta testers cried foul and they were ignored....

 

Lets not forget the fact that bioware told beta testers that they are only pretty much there for bugs! Oh boy! That did not go over well.

 

Are people starting to see a pattern here? Hmmm no wonder bioware lost millions of subs I wondered how the game would of been if they kept some of these things oh well who knows?

 

This!!!

[Gomla]

Snipped for space saving but it was a list of some of the things removed in beta.

 

I also remember those things.

 

I've been in quite a few beta tests and normally I see things added and changed but is the first time i'd seen things removed in large amounts.

[lokdron]

I also remember those things.

 

I've been in quite a few beta tests and normally I see things added and changed but is the first time i'd seen things removed in large amounts.

 

Yup I loved when pretty much all the armor in the game was orange and all the shiny titles and the ****** armor sets. You know the armor thana vesh wears? SW could get that in beta IT was orange! it was a dark side armor set with a mask with 6 red glowing eyes on it. You could have it as early as balmorra!

 

But alas what could beta testers do? They tried and they were ignored.

Edited November 30, 2012 by lokdron

[CaptianFordo]

(Not directed at you)

 

Maybe because this playerbase that posts on the forums didn't show the maturity level for this type of communication. Every other post, thread, etc is along the lines of "omg you guys suck!" Along with doom posts everywhere. Would you realy want the opinions of those kind of people? Ever since launch, it is a rare occurence to see a constructive post here, if there were more of those, maybe we would have this.

 

A lot of the time when BW has stated ideas they would like to see, but then don't do them (Or right away) people flip out of them for days, like I said, at this point I'd care less about the minority (forum posters).

 

This guy said what nobody will. This is what people don't want to hear and that's about the truth of it. Now with so many layoffs as a result of this entire FUBAR situation, I fear that quality control will decline even further yet...

[AshlaBoga]

They used to give quite a bit of detial on things that were a few months away, then when expectations weren't met they got blasted, that's why they don't bother, Gabe broke NDA and hasn't been heard from since, Rickman is more laid back about it.

 

When did Gabe break NDA?

[Gomla]

This guy said what nobody will. This is what people don't want to hear and that's about the truth of it. Now with so many layoffs as a result of this entire FUBAR situation, I fear that quality control will decline even further yet...

 

Wait, you're blaming the forums for the layoffs?

 

I hope you are not serious, if you are I may be forced to laugh in your general direction.

[Vandicus]

When did Gabe break NDA?

Presumably on SGRA during his last interview.

[finelinebob]

[Force Persuade] These are not the rule changes you are looking for. You can go about your business. Move along.

[DaRoamer]

They have NEVER been honest and forthcoming. It's only when their "honesty" turned out to be a thinly veiled marketing ploy that it really hit the fan, let's look at some examples:

 

a. Guild Summit - virtually NOTHING from guild summit was ever implemented. It was a face saving move to make it SEEM like they were listening to us. Remember the whole ready check joke? "OMG we don't have that in game, that can't be, I'll head back to the office right now and get someone working on that..." 6 months later still no ready check, a simple system that SHOULD take less than a few hours to design and implement.

b. Ilum Revamp - Moved from 1 year anniversary in December, to January, now Feb OR March..

 

I stopped reading right there. You've proven exactly why they don't communicate future plans more, because of people like you. Go back and watch ANY interview where it was mentioned that Ilum was planned for January and you'll see that EVERY SINGLE TIME they said that the PLAN was to get it out by January because it would be somewhat fitting since it would be the one year anniversary of when it was removed but that that they can't PROMISE it will out by then, just that that would be cool. Then people like you take that as a promise, despite them saying specifically "this isn't set in stone" and you'll jump in the forums and call them liars. That is this community in a nutshell.

[Raila]

Seriously-- why?

 

Can someone explain?

What is the strategy behind, I don´t get it.

 

I can name at least five other MMO projects where the community is involved from the very beginning of design concepts for update additions, why can´t EA/BW do it?

 

When things hit PTS, it´s already too late in my opinion. Does BW not realize they could do much better with valuable early design feedback?

 

Seriously? Have you actually read these forums? If i were them I wouldn't want input from most of the clowns that post here either.

[Goretzu]

They used to give quite a bit of detial on things that were a few months away, then when expectations weren't met they got blasted, that's why they don't bother, Gabe broke NDA and hasn't been heard from since, Rickman is more laid back about it.

 

 

Well it wasn't expectations so much as they didn't deliever what they promised, which unfortunately has been the main story of SWTOR from RvR to content updates.

 

Now that's not a problem with customers, it's a problem with their PR dept over selling things.

[ConradLionhart]

Seriously-- why?

 

Can someone explain?

What is the strategy behind, I don´t get it.

 

I can name at least five other MMO projects where the community is involved from the very beginning of design concepts for update additions, why can´t EA/BW do it?

 

When things hit PTS, it´s already too late in my opinion. Does BW not realize they could do much better with valuable early design feedback?

 

They could be undergoing restructuring and do not feel confident in sharing any info that are not set in stone. If they say something, and then not deliver on it, the outrage would be even bigger.

[Durasturan]

I stopped reading right there. You've proven exactly why they don't communicate future plans more, because of people like you.

 

I stopped reading right there. Once you start to introduce pointless adhominems then you lose my respect. You clearly aren't wanting to have a civil conversation, no you just want heap blame, mock and name call.

 

There is a difference between a company saying "we're going to do this" and "we want to do this" and they have said "we're going to do this" too many times and simply not followed through. I also like how your "clever" and not at all entirely over used and sophomoric meme "come back" allows you to completely ignore the brunt of my argument.

 

What would you say to the custom items that were conveniently removed for "further testing" only to be back in the game for real money?

 

What would you say since they did the same thing to HK as well?

 

What would you say to Ilum which was HEAVILY advertised as "revolutionary new OPVP" and it not even being in the game as any kind of of anything just another zone like any others, except for the fact there completely removed all of the actual PVP elements

 

What would you say to Ranked being yanked 4 hours before launch after being heavily advertised for weeks?

 

What would you say about Makeb going from "subs get everything" to "well we're not quite sure what subs will pay for."

 

You conveniently harped on ONE point while completely ignoring the crux of my argument and think you can flippantly ignore the REALITY of the matter with "stopped reading there." Like sticking your head in the sand some how makes the problem go away: "Didn't read the rest of your argument so now I can pick some random point, doesn't matter that they all go together to prove a coherent argument LOL"

Edited December 1, 2012 by Durasturan

[Durasturan]

Seriously? Have you actually read these forums? If i were them I wouldn't want input from most of the clowns that post here either.

 

Call your customers clowns.

Mock their feedback as idiotic and useless

 

You'd fit right in as a Dev here, that kind of thinking would easily drive 2 million paying customers away...

[Goretzu]

They could be undergoing restructuring and do not feel confident in sharing any info that are not set in stone. If they say something, and then not deliver on it, the outrage would be even bigger.

 

They've been largely working on F2P since 1.2 is most likely the reason.

[turjake]

Call your customers clowns.

Mock their feedback as idiotic and useless

 

You'd fit right in as a Dev here, that kind of thinking would easily drive 2 million paying customers away...

 

That was just stupid. I have never seen any dev here calling anyone clown or their feedback useless.

[lokdron]

That was just stupid. I have never seen any dev here calling anyone clown or their feedback useless.

 

Read my Post on page 8 during beta they told beta testers that they are only there for bugs. When beta testers asked bioware to revert stuff to how it was before like pretty much all armor sets being orange.

Edited December 1, 2012 by lokdron

[turjake]

Read my Post on page 8 during beta they told beta testers that they are only there for bugs. When beta testers asked bioware to revert stuff to how it was before like pretty much all armor sets being orange.

 

So they told you that (I assume) the end part of beta testing is mainly for bug fixing and not implementing new stuff (changing the implementation of stuff) and now you are claiming they called you clowns and that your opinions dont matter at all?

 

I think this kind of exaggerated interpretation is one of the reasons the devs dont want to communicate with people.

[DaRoamer]

First post:

 

I stopped reading right there. Once you start to introduce pointless adhominems then you lose my respect. You clearly aren't wanting to have a civil conversation, no you just want heap blame, mock and name call.

 

The very next post:

 

Call your customers clowns.

Mock their feedback as idiotic and useless

 

You'd fit right in as a Dev here, that kind of thinking would easily drive 2 million paying customers away...

 

If you want respect then earn it. Frankly your entire first post was just a bunch of whining and wasn't even related to the topic at hand. You have to pay real money for HK? I didn't. Maybe if you're free to play. I'm not about to go point by point to counter your arguments but many are wrong or severely overblown. For example, Ilum was HEAVILY advertised as revolutionary new PVP? What? This game was heavily advertised as being centered around STORY. The devs themselves said they didn't think PVP would be so popular, yet you're claiming they were heavily advertising it? No.

 

You ignore that fact that since the guild summit that much of the leadership of this game changed. So what you keep calling lies are simply changes in direction and re-prioritizing which is a fact of life. Every company in the world must do the same thing, when things aren't working you shift focus a bit and try something else.

 

So I go back to my point that there are plenty of people like you on the forums that hold ever word out of the dev's mouths as promises and cannot accept that things may change as a simple fact of life.

 

I love the game and I like the direction it's heading in, it seems like BW are finally hitting their stride.

Edited December 1, 2012 by DaRoamer

[Larce_Apollo]

They can't win either way, best to keep quite and listen to you moan about lack of info, then being told how much of a dirty rotten liar they are when they mention something and it gets changed.

 

Little to no information given to the end users is a policy stance that goes throughout the IT industry.

Edited December 1, 2012 by Larce_Apollo

[veyl]

So they told you that (I assume) the end part of beta testing is mainly for bug fixing and not implementing new stuff (changing the implementation of stuff) and now you are claiming they called you clowns and that your opinions dont matter at all?

 

I think this kind of exaggerated interpretation is one of the reasons the devs dont want to communicate with people.

 

Beta testers weren't called clowns, however they were told that their opinions would be noted but unless the DEVELOPMENT TEAM agreed with them, things were going forward as is. (the orange shells // crafting as an example) The development team did not listen to any of the opinions that had resounding backing. It took them until 1.3 to put in the UI customization which was repeatedly brought up during beta.. It wasn't until the masses started leaving that they decided "HEY maybe we shouldve listened to all that feedback"

 

There were a few posts where developers got extremely heated about Beta Testers being very annoyed that they werent listened to. I'm sure this is where that "clown" feeling is coming from because I read the post and the devs were absolutely talking down to the beta playerbase. It was then that a bunch of people realized that the development team was the major faulting point of the original game.

 

The secret WE CANT TALK ABOUT THAT, is one of the reasons why the game is where it is. If they'd been up front about everything and asked for feedback that could tweak their ideas into something universally enjoyed... This game would be in a whole different place right now. Unfortunately, you can't go back in time and since Bioware isn't learning from that mistake people are still going to be upset with them.

Edited December 1, 2012 by veyl

[turjake]

Beta testers weren't called clowns, however they were told that their opinions would be noted but unless the DEVELOPMENT TEAM agreed with them, things were going forward as is. (the orange shells // crafting as an example) The development team did not listen to any of the opinions that had resounding backing. It took them until 1.3 to put in the UI customization which was repeatedly brought up during beta.. It wasn't until the masses started leaving that they decided "HEY maybe we shouldve listened to all that feedback"

 

There were a few posts where developers got extremely heated about Beta Testers being very annoyed that they werent listened to. I'm sure this is where that "clown" feeling is coming from because I read the post and the devs were absolutely talking down to the beta playerbase. It was then that a bunch of people realized that the development team was the major faulting point of the original game.

 

The secret WE CANT TALK ABOUT THAT, is one of the reasons why the game is where it is. If they'd been up front about everything and asked for feedback that could tweak their ideas into something universally enjoyed... This game would be in a whole different place right now. Unfortunately, you can't go back in time and since Bioware isn't learning from that mistake people are still going to be upset with them.

 

It generally takes quite a bit of time to develop anything new or do major changes to the game systems. That is why they wont change anything big in beta testing and also that is why if they released UI customisation in 1.3, they had been working with it for quite a long time before.

 

I am not sure why did you assume that you can redesign the game in beta testing? Generally at that point they try to tweak things and find + fix bugs. They wont add new stuff unless they have been working with it before and it did not finish before beta started. They dont start a beta testing phase until the game has most major systems in place and more or less working.

[Goretzu]

It generally takes quite a bit of time to develop anything new or do major changes to the game systems. That is why they wont change anything big in beta testing and also that is why if they released UI customisation in 1.3, they had been working with it for quite a long time before.

 

I am not sure why did you assume that you can redesign the game in beta testing? Generally at that point they try to tweak things and find + fix bugs. They wont add new stuff unless they have been working with it before and it did not finish before beta started. They dont start a beta testing phase until the game has most major systems in place and more or less working.

 

They did chance a lot in Beta, just not all of it in a good way.

 

Summon was taken out for example, a really bad idea IMO, as it would have helped immensely with travel issue early on in the game.

[LordRichardEW]

Basically this.

 

Despite what others in this thread claim, the community here is very forgiving and hopeful about the game. Perhaps a bit demanding and anxious at times, but that's because many of us have watched as 2million+ players have come and gone.

 

Bioware should end this ridiculous "secrecy", but...I think DarthTHC is right - ego is a HUGE factor in their attitudes - it always has been.

 

I agree Ego has something to do with it but if you look at some of the post form of the people in this thread, BW came straight up and claimed a mistake all the time or gave information out more freely about what in the works or when it come out. There will be those some that are in this thread that will come out and hate on them even more using that claiming of the mistake and ammo or hate on them cause they were not able to meet that date they gave or the thing they said was coming wasn't what these people expected. Not going to name name but these people are being unreasonable , unfair, and plan out dirt bags about things and I don't blame BW for not wanting to give out information about things because of it.