CosmicKat Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Ugh, give me an example of 1 Force Push kill strong people in the movie? Umm... in the RotJ duel between Luke and Vader, any normal human would be insta-killed by any of the giant metal things flung at them. I'm pretty sure Luke gets tossed around a couple of times into walls as well. Try jumping out of your car at 20 mph into a wall sometime. It makes an owwie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Umm... in the RotJ duel between Luke and Vader, any normal human would be insta-killed by any of the giant metal things flung at them. I'm pretty sure Luke gets tossed around a couple of times into walls as well. Try jumping out of your car at 20 mph into a wall sometime. It makes an owwie. That's EP V's fight, and neither of them got killed by a Force Push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Ugh, give me an example of 1 Force Push kill strong people in the movie? I don't have to, and since when has the movies been apart of this? You were talking about the EU, now it's the movies? Could you like... maybe make up your mind as to which false example you wish to use? Force pushing people 15 feet (being generous here) is rather common in various books. The amount of force requires to send a human flying that far as a direct, blunt impact, would be, if not deadly, critically injuring. Then we have the possibility of a wall to which you slam into. While that might not necessarily do such huge damage because the force has been blunted on your way, it would still most likely cause damage, knock you unconscious or at the very least knock the wind out of you. You seem to only have "movie knowledge" of how injuries happen, and it's really sad. Again, it's just fiction and it doesn't have to follow any rules it doesn't wish, but, you are arguing about the logical implications of the force here, so real world logic must be considered, if not then why are you arguing in the first place? It's just a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 That's EP V's fight, and neither of them got killed by a Force Push. They would have had the laws of physics applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgonKara Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Yeah we should have all joined forces to repel the first Vong invasion! That would have been SO GREAT! No, it really wouldn't. Why you strawman-ing me bro? No one would have cared about them as much. Jump off into the "Story and Lore" forum and see the arguments that have been going on; there are a *lot* of people who care about that character. It carries more weight to see it occur when you don't know the outcome. With Darth Vader, we all knew what was going to happen to Anakin Skywalker. Everyone had flipped to the end of the book and saw the final pages. It wasn't a surprise to see what was going to happen, as the prequels basically just answered "how" and "why" instead. No one could have seen the parallels with Revan back and forth, and finally back again in that last moment where he quotes Malak. He was blinded by his own zealotry, and saw only his ways (genocide of billions) to be absolute. He became the Anti-Emperor (as in an Anti-Christ, or Anti-Matter), using similiar methods to obtain opposite means, but did not see himself being consumed by the Dark Side until the final blows struck him. You definitely got more out of it than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 They would have had the laws of physics applied. The laws of physics don't apply to the Force. Spontaneous mass acceleration/deceleration applied simultaneously to a unit(if such a thing could even be rationally defined) as a whole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeventhJedi Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Oh man, what about the worst moment of all? As a Jedi Knight, you get to freaking KILL the emperor. Single-handedly. If you roll an alt, you can do it twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Why you strawman-ing me bro? Cause the Vong are the dumbest thing to happen to the SW universe, and using them as an example to make a point against "A new threat" is the most prudent, and likely to get the most support from people reading as an excellent point against such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I don't have to, and since when has the movies been apart of this? You were talking about the EU, now it's the movies? Could you like... maybe make up your mind as to which false example you wish to use? Force pushing people 15 feet (being generous here) is rather common in various books. The amount of force requires to send a human flying that far as a direct, blunt impact, would be, if not deadly, critically injuring. Then we have the possibility of a wall to which you slam into. While that might not necessarily do such huge damage because the force has been blunted on your way, it would still most likely cause damage, knock you unconscious or at the very least knock the wind out of you. You seem to only have "movie knowledge" of how injuries happen, and it's really sad. Again, it's just fiction and it doesn't have to follow any rules it doesn't wish, but, you are arguing about the logical implications of the force here, so real world logic must be considered, if not then why are you arguing in the first place? It's just a game. Wait wait wait, it was you who chose to ignore the EU. Umm the reason is the same as not seeing much people stopping bullets with their teeth. It's RETARDED and unbelievable. The EU is also a worthless source for any argument that involves reason because it's riddled with BAD writers, BAD stories and plots that make as much sense as wearing ice skates to a beach in the summer. If we talk about EU, then it's simple, strong Force users got defeated or killed by non force users, A LOT. So your whole argument is invalid. If you want to put all the realistic way into SW, man, I don't know what to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) Oh man, what about the worst moment of all? As a Jedi Knight, you get to freaking KILL the emperor. Single-handedly. If you roll an alt, you can do it twice. Ugh, Luke also defeated the Emperor in Dark Empire, who is more powerful than the Sith Emperor. And the Emperor was not fully dead. Edited November 27, 2012 by Slowpokeking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Cause the Vong are the dumbest thing to happen to the SW universe, and using them as an example to make a point against "A new threat" is the most prudent, and likely to get the most support from people reading as an excellent point against such a thing. What's dumb about the Vong? Is it the bit where they're the "modern" Rakata(with the whole force disconnection thing)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 The laws of physics don't apply to the Force. Spontaneous mass acceleration/deceleration applied simultaneously to a unit(if such a thing could even be rationally defined) as a whole? Of course they don't, but the laws of physics should apply to it's implications. That's the mark of believable fantasy writing, it must make more sense than reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 The laws of physics don't apply to the Force. Spontaneous mass acceleration/deceleration applied simultaneously to a unit(if such a thing could even be rationally defined) as a whole? Not arguing that. The point was, I think... that magic powers are acceptable as story lore till those powers become so commonplace and magnified that they lose the suspension of disbelief. This is why the Enterprise's uber-science always breaks down at the worst possible time... Because Capt. Kirk outwitting the badguys is way more believable (and dramatically effective) than magic saving the day every episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 They would have had the laws of physics applied. So it's now laws of physics in a science fiction that have the Force? Can you explain ghosts and magic with the law of physics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Gee a game that has a hero.Wow that is totally new.Biff the Understudy says why wasn't I allowed this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Not arguing that. The point was, I think... that magic powers are acceptable as story lore till those powers become so commonplace and magnified that they lose the suspension of disbelief. This is why the Enterprise's uber-science always breaks down at the worst possible time... Because Capt. Kirk outwitting the badguys is way more believable (and dramatically effective) than magic saving the day every episode. So I take it you're not an X-men fan? Commonplace powers don't break suspension of disbelief, lack of internal consistency can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Not arguing that. The point was, I think... that magic powers are acceptable as story lore till those powers become so commonplace and magnified that they lose the suspension of disbelief. This is why the Enterprise's uber-science always breaks down at the worst possible time... Because Capt. Kirk outwitting the badguys is way more believable (and dramatically effective) than magic saving the day every episode. Most of the Jedi are not close to the level of Obi Wan, Yoda or Vader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgonKara Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) Not arguing that. The point was, I think... that magic powers are acceptable as story lore till those powers become so commonplace and magnified that they lose the suspension of disbelief. This is why the Enterprise's uber-science always breaks down at the worst possible time... Because Capt. Kirk outwitting the badguys is way more believable (and dramatically effective) than magic saving the day every episode. yeahh but outwitting the bad guys usually involves some pseudo-scientific babble about accelerating through the gravitational field of the sun in order to travel back in time or somesuch made up convenience. Edited November 27, 2012 by MorgonKara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Of course they don't, but the laws of physics should apply to it's implications. That's the mark of believable fantasy writing, it must make more sense than reality. Why should it apply to its implications? Things like Force Jump would kill Jedi in that case. Plain and simple the Force is not designed around physics and Star Wars is not hard sci-fi. The Force is magic. MAGIC. If you've got a question about why it doesn't work some way, just remember, a wizard did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 So I take it you're not an X-men fan? Commonplace powers don't break suspension of disbelief, lack of internal consistency can. I love the X-Men. It's all about the context. Super powers in a superhero universe "make sense" internally. That universe is also self-correcting. You go overboard one day, and tomorrow you can make up a super power that negates the over powered one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielHex Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Oh man, what about the worst moment of all? As a Jedi Knight, you get to freaking KILL the emperor. Single-handedly. If you roll an alt, you can do it twice. I love people who actually think this. It shows a poor understanding of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) Why should it apply to its implications? Things like Force Jump would kill Jedi in that case. Plain and simple the Force is not designed around physics and Star Wars is not hard sci-fi. The Force is magic. MAGIC. If you've got a question about why it doesn't work some way, just remember, a wizard did it. And that's FINE! It's always a damn wizard. However, that's besides the POINT. I'll reiterate it since this one person keeps conjuring up irrelevant nonsense after irrelevant nonsense. A smuggler, the one you can create, killing not one, but three, dark council members in rather rapid successsin in a straight up fight with no deus ex devices is ridiculous in the confines of the universe. They weren't distracted, on the rag, drunk, old, blind or anything. They drew their Lightsaber in anticipation for an attack from a dude with a blaster and a smart mouth. That is the essence of what I'm trying to say here. Edited November 27, 2012 by Jandi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgonKara Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Isn't the Emperor like some kind of spirit that possesses host bodies? How you gonna kill a spirit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I love the X-Men. It's all about the context. Super powers in a superhero universe "make sense" internally. That universe is also self-correcting. You go overboard one day, and tomorrow you can make up a super power that negates the over powered one. Magic become common is ok, as long as it can make a reasonable setting in the universe, it could go against real life physics but it should not break its own law. does not to have too much Deux Ex Machina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Isn't the Emperor like some kind of spirit that possesses host bodies? How you gonna kill a spirit? By crossing the beams, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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