I love the resolve system

[Technohic]

Completely depends on the night, and the version. Pre-NGE, almost every fight was in a player owned base, so it made for some epic fights. The down side to this was the time between fights.

 

Post NGE, when we (Rebs) were outnumbered, we'd leave Restuss and force a fight somewhere else, usually the palace in Theed because it was easy to sucker Imps into the building where it had a narrow opening to enter and a massive atrium with stairs for us to hide on and take them out. They'd run in and die like lemmings jumping off a cliff. Fights here could last for a good hour while 8 Rebs took on 30 Imps. Imps would very commonly camp our bunker and gank the poor guy turning in his mission. Made for great fights as well.

 

Numbers mattered less than strategy in SWG. There were no "objectives", so there was no way for a stealth to know with certainty where you'd be and a fight could be in any town, around any corner, at the GTN, ANYWHERE...not just in one of the 4 boxes.

 

Maybe strategy is the wrong word for it. I am meaning more of in fight tactics. I mean, would you ever have a class crouch down anywhere for any reason? Sure, there weren't mechanics for a sniper class there, but that is what I am talking about when everyone is just running around spamming attacks. I can't remember if anything even required you to stop in order to fire it.

 

It is 2 different games.

 

Was there anything that was channeled or interrupts or any gap closers outside of some sprints/force speed? heck,. Took forever before there was a sort of "taunt" ability for LS jedi to have any purpose whatsoever in PvP.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Technohic

[Lejune]

Lets say 3 players come at a node at the same time, with 2 shadows there that can coordinate (voice chat)

 

3 Enemies coming at node vs 2 Shadows

Let us ASSUME for THIS ARGUMENT and SIMPLICITIES SAKE 3 enemies (1, 2, 3) have no CC breaker currently.

 

0 Seconds - 1 and 2 are mezzed

2 seconds - 3 has reached node and begins capping

8 seconds - 1 and 2 come out of mez.

9 seconds - 3 is 7.0 / 8.0 seconds capping point. 3 Is Mezzed.

10 seconds - 1 and 2 reach node. 1 Is mezzed. 2 Begins cast on node.

17 seconds - 2 is 7.0 / 8.0 seconds capping point. 2 is Mezzed. 3 Comes out of Mez, begins capping point again. 3 Is CC Immune.

18 Seconds - 1 comes out of mez. 1 is CC Immune. 1 Begins capping point.

24 Seconds - 3 is 7.0 / 8.0 seconds, 1 is 6.0 / 8.0 seconds. Shadow 1 Casts deathfield, interrupting both players.

25 seconds - 2 Comes out of mez. 2 is CC Immune.

 

I dont think it was his intention to mean they were CC'd for that amount of time, just simply stating that 2 shadows vs 3 players on a node is imbalanced and needs to be adressed. Take this even further-

 

24 seconds - 1 and 3 both start channeling node again. Shadow 1 insta stealths.

25 seconds - 2 begins channeling node.

 

31 seconds - 1 and 3 are 7.0 / 8.0 seconds. 2 is 6.0 / 8.0 seconds. Shadow 2 casts deathfield. Interrupting all three players. All 3 players begin recasting channel. Shadow 2 restealths.

 

37 seconds - 1, 2, 3 are 6.0 / 8.0 seconds. It has been 20 seconds since 3 was CC Immune. 3 Is Mez'd.

38 seconds - 1 is 7.0 / 8.0 seconds. It has been 20 seconds since 1 was CC Immune. 1 Is Mez'd.

38 seconds - 2 is 7.0 / 8.0 seconds. It has been 13 seconds since 2 was CC Immune. 2 must be engaged. Shadow 1 casts force cloak and is CC Immune for 3 seconds.

40 seconds - It has been 15 seconds since 2 was cc immune. Shadow 1 throws a grenade, stunning 2 for 4 seconds.

41 seconds - Shadow 1 begins casting whirlwind on 2.

43 seconds - 2 Is whirlwinded, shadow 1 runs away.

45 seconds - 3 Comes out of Mez. Shadow 2 Mez's 3. 1 Comes out of Mez because of this, and begins channeling.

51 seconds - 2 comes out of Whirlwind. 2 begins channeling. 2 is CC Immune.

52 seconds - 1 is 7.0 / 8.0 seconds. Shadow 2 Mez's 1.

53 seconds - 3 comes out of Mez, begins channeling. 3 Is CC Immune.

58 seconds - 2 is 7.0 / 8.0 seconds. Shadow 1 engages 2 again.

60 seconds - 3 is 7.0 / 8.0 seconds. Shadow 1 engages 3.

60 seconds - 1 Comes out of Mez. 1 is CC Immune

 

you could continue speculating what happens after this, but there isn't much point in it. Regardless, something is very broken with stealth classes guarding nodes. That much can be seen. In the current state of the game, an assassin (operative) can guard a node and there is essentially no risk to him doing so. He can easily handle 1 or 2 players coming at him until help arrives, and (realistically, in an all players equal game, if 3 players come then the other engagement will end quickly)

 

Something needs to change. There needs to be a RISK for a stealth class to guard a node where 2 players have a reasonable chance at capping that node prior to help arriving.

 

my head hurts after typing all that.

 

The Fact that all of this had to be typed out.....means there is TOO MUCH CC IN THIS GAME!!

Edited November 7, 2012 by Lejune

[TUXs]

Maybe strategy is the wrong word for it. I am meaning more of in fight tactics. I mean, would you ever have a class crouch down anywhere for any reason? Sure, there weren't mechanics for a sniper class there, but that is what I am talking about when everyone is just running around spamming attacks. I can't remember if anything even required you to stop in order to fire it.

 

It is 2 different games.

 

Was there anything that was channeled or interrupts or any gap closers outside of some sprints/force speed? heck,. Took forever before there was a sort of "taunt" ability for LS jedi to have any purpose whatsoever in PvP.

 

OK, yes, you're correct. And I meant to add that to the previous post as well, yes, the best PvPers (heavy sarcasm) were the ones who would duck in, unload, duck out. In and out, all night long...

 

And no, nothing of the sort. No channels, no interrupts, just cooldowns.

[RJMazz]

My idea to fix the current resolve system.

 

Step nº 1 - Take off CC breakers. (NOT TROLLING. KEEP READING)

 

Step nº 2 - Implement the following mechanic, just the way I'm writing: Every kind of stun builds up 100 resolve per second of the stun, up to a max of 1000 resolve. 300 resolve for every pull in the game, arbitrary values, you decide whether pulls and roots should have resolve. I believe roots should have resolve for melee classes and slows should have no resolve whatsoever, but I'm not the devs.

 

Example - Flashbang breaks on hit, but applies 8 seconds of stun, doesn't matter, it gives 800 resolve.

 

Step nº 3 - Add a trigger-able button (just like you can trigger walk/running). When triggered, resolve bar activates and begins draining 100 resolve per second. If activated while in a stun, breaks stun and makes you invulnerable to CCs for as long as it's draining, and can be triggered off at will. If you want, add a low cooldown to this function (5 seconds top)

 

This'll give PvP a lot more depth in my opinion. Give me your thoughts.

Edited November 7, 2012 by RJMazz

[Quinlynn]

In SWG, the primary objective for PVP'ers was the control of the City of Restus.

 

SOE also added Invasions at other cities that involved player pariticpation that influenced the number of NPCs generated for your faction. This encouraged PVP at these events and the objective was to defend or take over the city.

 

No reason similar ideas / concpets could not work here.

[JackNader]

If you take the current system and amend it so that roots and slows add to resolve the system will cease to function.. PERIOD! This is a fact. Most of the abilities already in place fill up resolve in a disproportionate or ludicrous manor..

 

Take AOE mezes or any mezes for that matter.. When they are applied they fill the resolve bar to almost full. Mezes can be broken by any damage. This means that damage applied 1 second into the effect will negate the mez and yet still apply the same amount of resolve as if they'd been mezzed for 6 seconds. If anything mezes should apply resolve over time. That is, being mezzed for one second should apply 1/6th of the resolve, 2 seconds, 2/6th of the resolve, etc etc

 

Now there are a lot of abilities in this game that slow the target. Wither is an offensive ability that has a permanent slow attached to it. Mercenary/Vanguard's combust cylinder also applies a slow on effect. Gunslingers shock charge, etc. The real world effect of amending slows to the resolve would cause all players to acquire and maintain a full resolve bar indefinitely. Short of separating Offensive abilities from their slows and putting these abilities on long cooldowns there just isn't room to allow slows to fill the resolve bar without completely breaking the resolve mechanic.

 

Roots on the other hand are a different story. These guys could have a resolve over time mechanic attached to them which would allow them to be pooled with the other abilities that affect resolve.

 

I wrote a post a few days ago which outlines how to build a functioning resolve system. The post can be found here http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=551642

Edited November 7, 2012 by JackNader

[Quinlynn]

I wrote a post a few days ago which outlines how to build a functioning resolve system. The post can be found here http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=551642

 

While I an understand your passion, I do not agree that the resolve system would fail, anymore than it already does, if roots, snares and slows were added to the resolve system. Reslove amounts are now low enough it would only require that players be more intelligent about the application of roots, snares and slows.

 

We can agree to disagree.

[Kaisies]

That is a bizarrely specific situation. It is possible but not likely. It would take a large amount of coordination on the Shadows part and an an insane amount of derp on the attackers part (seriously not even try to find the guy that just mezzed you, I guess assume he ran away?). I understand it's a hypothetical situation but it's an extreme one.

 

large coordination? hardly. Easy coordination.

 

Try to find someone stealthed? have you every REALLY tried to do that? Depending on your class, your chances go from slim to non-existant.

[Thufir_Hawat]

Nice to see a good discussion going on this, in terms of some of the feedback. I'm sorry if the title upset anyone just my warped sense of humour.

 

Yes I have seen a turret defended 3 v 2 for more then 30 seconds with two shadows coming in and out of stealth and CCing, not just mezzes but a combination of well timed spoilers, exceptionally funny and skillful but not fun if it becomes an every day thing.

 

When I was talking about knockdowns I may have used the wrong term, I'm really discussing things like dirty kick and the equivalent attacks that leave you stunned and open to all attacks for 4 secs. Although the system might be set up so you should only have to wait through 2 of those it sometimes doesn't work and I have had 3 in a row before hitting full resolve. This shouldn't be a suprise as I still sometimes get to use ravage without a cool down triggered and sometimes it does no damage so there are still gremlins in the code. As said before I don't mind the 4 seconds but if you have a group focusing on you with their collective CCs resolve should build with overlapping stuns as they already have a numbers advantage over you.

 

Finally, Hutball last night, full resolve walking towards the line with ball, 75% of my resolve left still a solid white box, pop undying rage no problem just a step or two more only need 2 secs of life, and then I'm moved back to the edge of the pit. Can anyone explain to me what skill can move you with full resolve because I didn't know anything could. I could be wrong but I suspect that there may be a few bugs in the system at the moment as well.

[Smashbrother]

My idea to fix the current resolve system.

 

Step nº 1 - Take off CC breakers. (NOT TROLLING. KEEP READING)

 

Step nº 2 - Implement the following mechanic, just the way I'm writing: Every kind of stun builds up 100 resolve per second of the stun, up to a max of 1000 resolve. 300 resolve for every pull in the game, arbitrary values, you decide whether pulls and roots should have resolve. I believe roots should have resolve for melee classes and slows should have no resolve whatsoever, but I'm not the devs.

 

Example - Flashbang breaks on hit, but applies 8 seconds of stun, doesn't matter, it gives 800 resolve.

 

Step nº 3 - Add a trigger-able button (just like you can trigger walk/running). When triggered, resolve bar activates and begins draining 100 resolve per second. If activated while in a stun, breaks stun and makes you invulnerable to CCs for as long as it's draining, and can be triggered off at will. If you want, add a low cooldown to this function (5 seconds top)

 

This'll give PvP a lot more depth in my opinion. Give me your thoughts.

 

Your idea would basically negate all CC since you can break cc ever 5 secs.

[Zataos]

Yeah, I agree, I came back to the game after a few months away and no only is resolve no better it's worse, and now, for whatever reason, in addition to the constant slows, knockbacks and chain stuns it would seem that ever fricking class has the ability to blind me for what seems like forever. For the love of god, that's not fun, it feels like a football game that has a penalty call ever 3rd play.

[SpaniardInfinity]

Finally, Hutball last night, full resolve walking towards the line with ball, 75% of my resolve left still a solid white box, pop undying rage no problem just a step or two more only need 2 secs of life, and then I'm moved back to the edge of the pit. Can anyone explain to me what skill can move you with full resolve because I didn't know anything could. I could be wrong but I suspect that there may be a few bugs in the system at the moment as well.

 

Lag or a bug. I've never seen a situation where I was at full resolve and could still be stunned. And trust me, as your healer, I will be stunned to full resolve quite often.

 

Beyond that, there's a lot of things they could do with resolve. Changing the mechanics/cooldown of theCC-break for one. Increasing the cooldowns of gap closers (specifically leaps on non-tank-spec'd players). Also, Bioware has said that new content is coming and potentially a new level cap. I'd assume there'd be an opportunity for at least one or two new abilities, you may want to consider adding a new CC-break ability entirely, like one you pop when you expect CC to hit you and it provides 150 resolve instantly and increases the resolve generation of all incoming CC by 50% for 6 seconds.

 

But whatever they do, there are two rules they need to obey. 1) Whitebars should be a penalty for poor teamwork, don't undermine this by making resolve more forgiving, it should be punishing. 2) Slows and roots cannot be on the resolve table. They could add it, but they'd need to do a serious overhaul of class abilities because I don't know if you realize how many abilities have slows or roots attatched to them. I think this would actually be more harmful than helpful, since some of these abilities are absolutely necessary in a rotation for resource management or it is one of their signature attacks. Plus, the slow/root mechanic is what gives ranged a fighting chance against melee and also allows control during objective play.

Edited November 8, 2012 by SpaniardInfinity

[Technohic]

Never tried but do friendly pulls get negated by resolve?

[Quinlynn]

Never tried but do friendly pulls get negated by resolve?

 

No...

[Technohic]

No...

 

OK. Didn't think so and thought that would be dumb, but you never know...

[TUXs]

If you take the current system and amend it so that roots and slows add to resolve the system will cease to function.. PERIOD! This is a fact.

 

With an opening statement that obnoxious, I find it difficult to take you seriously.

 

There's absolutely NO reason that a root should not add to Resolve. Knock backs do and they're not nearly as effective. The only adjustment needed would be on the players end where they would need to be more aware of the white bar.

[RJMazz]

Your idea would basically negate all CC since you can break cc ever 5 secs.

 

It would negate most CCs, yes, but the Resolve Trigger should only be available when stunned, therefore you cannot stop slows and roots from happening, but you can stop most stuns, and even then, they'd stop you for a second or a half second in which you have to react and be interrupted, making people catch up and stopping you.

 

Resolve is there to put an end to CC, and a more skillful use of it with lesser cooldowns will make the game more enjoyable. Besides, 100 resolve per second drains pretty fast.

[Litros]

Remove resolve totally and let the bloodbath start.

 

I am an old (in age and school) pvper when resolve was simply not exist. Maybe was a few abilities for slow players, but stun and etc stuff was simply unknown.

 

Let us play till death. And not stunned till death tsk tsk

 

Who ever shooting bigger lets win. Who ever can defend better lets win. Who ever heals better lets win. Who ever have the best team lets win. This is what really matters in pvp. All the other is just... (put your own word there, i know my word).

 

In my opinion resolve system and 3 - 4 - 5 different kind of stuns - or whatever you call it - is just not pvp!!

[Technohic]

Remove resolve totally and let the bloodbath start.

 

I am an old (in age and school) pvper when resolve was simply not exist. Maybe was a few abilities for slow players, but stun and etc stuff was simply unknown.

 

Let us play till death. And not stunned till death tsk tsk

 

Who ever shooting bigger lets win. Who ever can defend better lets win. Who ever heals better lets win. Who ever have the best team lets win. This is what really matters in pvp. All the other is just... (put your own word there, i know my word).

 

In my opinion resolve system and 3 - 4 - 5 different kind of stuns - or whatever you call it - is just not pvp!!

 

Great idea. I miss the days when I could just pick my most powerfull attacks and heals and just use them as soon as they are up. If I was really in the mood, I could just mash my face on the keyboard and they would eventually fire when they are ready. What's with all this stun nonsense?

Edited November 8, 2012 by Technohic

[Litros]

Great idea. I miss the days when I could just pick my most powerfull attacks and heals and just use them as soon as they are up. If I was really in the mood, I could just mash my face on the keyboard and they would eventually fire when they are ready. What's with all this stun nonsense?

 

Is exact what pvp is...

Most powerful player wins. Not the one that have the most stuns. Balance must occur by other way. Not the stupid:

"Ohh this class have more powerful attacks - cant stun. Ahh this class is too weak - give him 5 stuns"

 

What the heck?! They cant design the classes satisfactorily for pvp game play , so they invent stuns?

[Technohic]

Is exact what pvp is...

Most powerful player wins. Not the one that have the most stuns. Balance must occur by other way. Not the stupid:

"Ohh this class have more powerful attacks - cant stun. Ahh this class is too weak - give him 5 stuns"

 

What the heck?! They cant design the classes satisfactorily for pvp game play , so they invent stuns?

 

I know right?

 

I mean, pfft. PvP should be just about me pressing my most powerful buttons and you pressing your powerfull buttons, and whoever presses faster should win if things were balanced.

 

*** bioware!

[Ahebish]

Well; playing a scrapper smuggler; I suppose I should defend the stuns in the game....but I won't.

 

The thing is, having stealth is fine and annoying to other players as is. Making the builds that take advantage of that most also rely heavily on stun-locking is a bad idea. It just makes for hate and therefore the answer is to nerf operative. :|

 

No but seriously. That was the answer, to nerf operatives, when the concept itself was flawed. I think stealth classes should have maybe the highest melee burst but be about the squishiest, with the role of taking out a critical target quickly then vanishing and being out of the fight for a bit waiting to pick and chose their attack.

 

Another option to this is to have a harasser type. Someone that is not going to solo kill anyone very quick, but they will be elusive and keep pressure on a target to support or otherwise have to stay alert. I could see this as a lethality/dirty fighting stealth.

 

Don't get me wrong. I like my scrapper as is now, but it is clear that the main tool I have is also very much a part of the main annoyance in the game. On the other hand; it needs to be considered when/if they ever adjust resolve to be more enjoyable.

 

But that's exactly what they did to concealments/scrappers.

 

Now we have the lowest burst of any class and ARE the squishiest class.

 

Now sorc/sages are out of control with CC's and I'm seeing sins/shadows using CC's more now than they ever would want to in the past.

 

Bottom line is noone fears a scrapper/concealment. I agree they should have the highest burst in the game even if it costs us a couple of seconds on our stuns, but our *********** damage has to match the lack of utility and survivability.

 

Right now the trend is for BW to boost all other classes while completely ignoring scrappers/concealments. So while other classes get stronger these classes get weaker as time goes on.

 

The resolve system is just a slap in the face.

 

Before people complained about conceals/scrapper stuns... NOW everyone is ************ about the stuns/CC's and guess what... It's the glowstick users that are responsible for most of that grief due to the excelent well thought-out resolve system.

 

Here's a suggestion I dare to make: Nerf all other classes in the game except scrappers/concealments?

 

And the response to that would be: "All classes are fine it's the resolve system that sux." No in fact sorcs/sages are broken for CC's: Bubble stun is being exploited in rank'd wz's. Sorcs/Sages have way to much crowd control that has little to no effect on resolve. That is a broken class on top of a broken resolve system. The simple fix nerf bubble stun making it cause 100% resolve instantly in 1 hit. It will stop these tools from exploiting the mechanic and resolve system in rwz's.

[Technohic]

But that's exactly what they did to concealments/scrappers.

 

Now we have the lowest burst of any class and ARE the squishiest class.

 

Now sorc/sages are out of control with CC's and I'm seeing sins/shadows using CC's more now than they ever would want to in the past.

 

Bottom line is noone fears a scrapper/concealment. I agree they should have the highest burst in the game even if it costs us a couple of seconds on our stuns, but our *********** damage has to match the lack of utility and survivability.

 

Right now the trend is for BW to boost all other classes while completely ignoring scrappers/concealments. So while other classes get stronger these classes get weaker as time goes on.

 

The resolve system is just a slap in the face.

 

Before people complained about conceals/scrapper stuns... NOW everyone is ************ about the stuns/CC's and guess what... It's the glowstick users that are responsible for most of that grief due to the excelent well thought-out resolve system.

 

Here's a suggestion I dare to make: Nerf all other classes in the game except scrappers/concealments?

 

And the response to that would be: "All classes are fine it's the resolve system that sux." No in fact sorcs/sages are broken for CC's: Bubble stun is being exploited in rank'd wz's. Sorcs/Sages have way to much crowd control that has little to no effect on resolve. That is a broken class on top of a broken resolve system. The simple fix nerf bubble stun making it cause 100% resolve instantly in 1 hit. It will stop these tools from exploiting the mechanic and resolve system in rwz's.

 

I agree with you on that is what they did to OP rather than address the stuns. Nefing everyone down might be a bit too far. I guess that is the problem though. Figuring out how to fix things in a responsible way rather than just do something that changes the face of the problem. Right now, you can not buff operatives or scoundrels much if at all, while the openr is a KD and the play calls for locking down a target.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Technohic

[Ahebish]

I agree with you on that is what they did to OP rather than address the stuns. Nefing everyone down might be a bit too far. I guess that is the problem though. Figuring out how to fix things in a responsible way rather than just do something that changes the face of the problem. Right now, you can not buff operatives or scoundrels much if at all, while the openr is a KD and the play calls for locking down a target.

 

Like I said, I would gladly sacrifice 2 second stun duration for our pre 1.2 damage numbers any day of the week.

 

Define irony: Concealment/Scrappers are overpowered hitting 7k crits: Yet smash jugs have been exceeding it since launch. And people are just now realizing the spec is overpowered and complaining about FOTM's.... Really? It only took the community almost 1 full year to realize this spec was overpowered?

 

What about sorcs/sages/sins/shadows hitting 6-7k crits? What about as expected BH's hitting 6-7k crits. Sometimes I just can't help but /facepalm at the people complaining about FOTM smash specs. And yet at the same token it's these same people that got our class nerf'd into the ground.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Ahebish

[Esiqual]

love or it or hate it there are only a few changes that could possibly be made without any major overhaul to help the situation.

 

First make resolve only decay when in combat just as suggested earlier in this thread.

 

Second stun bubble needs to be addressed by either 1 of 2 ways.

1 - turn it back to an aoe mez like before

2 - make the stun build the correct amount resolve and reduce the stun timing to 1.5secs, also disable the ability to manually cast it by deselecting the buff.

 

Once those changes are made the system can be modified from there. I think 1 of the 2 possible adjustments could be made.

 

1. reduce the CD of the stun breaker to 1 minute.

OR

2. make it so when you cast your stun breaker you become immune to all cc that builds resolve for 6 secs.

 

the 2nd option i think would be the most interesting because it provides more strategic opportunity to use your stun breaker then at just full resolve.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Esiqual