I love the resolve system

[Thufir_Hawat]

Not really, I think the idea is right but current implementation is not working. I recently came back after leaving late 1.3 and find the changes difficult to fathom.

 

Consequences of the new system:

 

If you walk into a group of 3 or more repulic characters you will be chain stunned and attacked until dead. Whilst I don't expect to win a 3 v 1 it would be nice to be able to perform a few actions and bloody them at least, I mean there are 3 of them do they really need the advantage of chain- stunning me for 12 seconds.

 

Yesterday I watched 3 of our players being chain stunned in civil war at the turret by 2 cloaked shadows for 30-40secs waiting for resolve to get high enough to cc break out and not be restunned. Very, very funny but not what I want to see in PvP.

 

Proposed solution: Go back to having resolve build from overlapping CCs, they screwed up by applying 4 CCs to the same target there should be a penelty. If I'm in a position where I receive 4 or 5 ccs at the same time it suggests the other side already has an advantge over me anyway. Also, either reduce CC breaker recharge time or alow its use to give resolve at tthe same time, say 300-400 points so after 2 quick CCs you're free to actually play for a while. Alternativley reduce the length of time knock downs run for or make them broken on attack, least prefered as I know many builds rely on this technique.

 

Just some thoughts and observations, nothing new but no indication that BW are listening yet either.

[iDraxter]

When I saw the title I wanted to punch the monitor and yeal what is this world coming to then I read the post and I approve this thread, I hate the qq threads about premades and gear while the resolve is something I also want tweaked as it is now it's right in between love-hate about a 40-60 ratio. The title is misleading

[TUXs]

When I saw the title I wanted to punch the monitor and yeal what is this world coming to then I read the post and I approve this thread, I hate the qq threads about premades and gear while the resolve is something I also want tweaked as it is now it's right in between love-hate about a 40-60 ratio. The title is misleading

 

No doubt! I was about to flame the OP for being a troll. The title, while misleading, is effective at getting attention.

 

I agree OP. ANYTHING that minimizes the **edit**ing CC's in this game, I approve of 100%. ANYTHING!!!!

[Ybini]

One thing that would help, that I don't think would be difficult for them to implement, is to have it break CC when you cap resolve. RIght now you can be capped and still have to wait for the last stun to go through.

[Technohic]

Well; playing a scrapper smuggler; I suppose I should defend the stuns in the game....but I won't.

 

The thing is, having stealth is fine and annoying to other players as is. Making the builds that take advantage of that most also rely heavily on stun-locking is a bad idea. It just makes for hate and therefore the answer is to nerf operative. :|

 

No but seriously. That was the answer, to nerf operatives, when the concept itself was flawed. I think stealth classes should have maybe the highest melee burst but be about the squishiest, with the role of taking out a critical target quickly then vanishing and being out of the fight for a bit waiting to pick and chose their attack.

 

Another option to this is to have a harasser type. Someone that is not going to solo kill anyone very quick, but they will be elusive and keep pressure on a target to support or otherwise have to stay alert. I could see this as a lethality/dirty fighting stealth.

 

Don't get me wrong. I like my scrapper as is now, but it is clear that the main tool I have is also very much a part of the main annoyance in the game. On the other hand; it needs to be considered when/if they ever adjust resolve to be more enjoyable.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Technohic

[BobaStyx]

A cc breaker that breaks just 1 CC every two minutes shouldn't have to wait to be used until you are at full resolve. Once you use it, it should immediately give you full resolve which would help make the use of your CC breaker worthwhile. What's the point in using your breaker after waiting to hit full resolve if 90%+ of the time you spend your "immune to cc" time at your spawn point? If BW wanted to help PvP newbies by allowing them to just blow all their CC's with no regard to the resolve system it definitely needed to be implemented in a different way. It may help the newbies but it gives good premades an insurmountable advantage because people can be cc'd and burnt down 1 at a time with no resistance due to this new crap system we have. This makes people even LESS likely to do PvP which in the end just continues to kill our servers and make the populations dwindle more and more... Edited November 7, 2012 by BobaStyx

[Capt_Beers]

Not really, I think the idea is right but current implementation is not working. I recently came back after leaving late 1.3 and find the changes difficult to fathom.

 

Consequences of the new system:

 

If you walk into a group of 3 or more repulic characters you will be chain stunned and attacked until dead. Whilst I don't expect to win a 3 v 1 it would be nice to be able to perform a few actions and bloody them at least, I mean there are 3 of them do they really need the advantage of chain- stunning me for 12 seconds.

 

Yesterday I watched 3 of our players being chain stunned in civil war at the turret by 2 cloaked shadows for 30-40secs waiting for resolve to get high enough to cc break out and not be restunned. Very, very funny but not what I want to see in PvP.

 

Proposed solution: Go back to having resolve build from overlapping CCs, they screwed up by applying 4 CCs to the same target there should be a penelty. If I'm in a position where I receive 4 or 5 ccs at the same time it suggests the other side already has an advantge over me anyway. Also, either reduce CC breaker recharge time or alow its use to give resolve at tthe same time, say 300-400 points so after 2 quick CCs you're free to actually play for a while. Alternativley reduce the length of time knock downs run for or make them broken on attack, least prefered as I know many builds rely on this technique.

 

Just some thoughts and observations, nothing new but no indication that BW are listening yet either.

 

Hyperbole much?

 

- If you were stunned for 12 seconds you would have at most 2400+ resolve or at least 1200+. Either way you would have been immune to CC for a long time.

 

- 2 Shadows Mind Mazing 3 players is impossible. A Shadow can only have one person Mind Mazed at a time. Once you use on someone else the first one breaks, but it still grants the full amount of resolve. It also only lasts 8 secs, so for those 2 Shadows to mezz someone for 30-40 seconds with that ability they would have to hit them with it 3-4 times. At 800 resolve per cast and a resolve cap at 1000 plus the bonus resolve you get for effects that grant immunity they would be looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of like 3200-4400 resolve which is absolutely ridiculous.

 

- The knock downs in this game last 2 sec. The GCD is 1.5 seconds. Would you like the knock down to be short enough that it makes no difference?

 

Please read this article on resolve. It's a little old but the that's the basics of resolve they remain unchanged. The changes we saw in 1.4 only affected:

 

- How overlapping CC's work. They still add the same amount overall however if you are hit with a 4 second stun and 2 seconds later you are hit with another you are given the resolve for 6 secs worth of hard stun instead of 8 (which is still 1200 + 200 bonus for a total of 1400 making you immune for 14 seconds).

 

- Resolve also now only starts to decay once the current controlling effect has ended.

 

Please understand how these mechanics work before posting that they don't work or are poorly implemented.

[TUXs]

Please understand how these mechanics work before posting that they don't work or are poorly implemented.

 

Resolve is poorly implemented. I'm sure it works how they want it to, but it sucks. Pretend it's great if you like, you fool no one.

[DarthSabreth]

The Title was very misleading, I was about to ask the OP is he/she was sane. But after reading the Post i find myself agreeing with him/her. I never would have thought that i would be praying for pre 1.4 resolve but patch 1.4 makes pvp into what i like to call PVCC. I do not recall ever seeing any threads indicating to BW that there wasnt enough CC in this game. Now i spend so much time not PVPing in a PVP match its not funny, its just plain silly.

 

CC's in PVP should only be reserved for tactics, IE "getting away from a situation, and Capping an objective." Now people are just casually throwing out CC'S with out concequense and concern. someone is running towrds you stun him/her. someone is running up the ramp with no one around and not attacking the ball carrier or healing them throw out a stun ROFL your way through the match. Does this really seem like player verses player? seems more like player verses crowd control.

 

BW there is absolutly no consequenses for anyone for throwing out CC'S anymore, this 1.4 patch change was a curse not a blessing.

[Capt_Beers]

Resolve is poorly implemented. I'm sure it works how they want it to, but it sucks. Pretend it's great if you like, you fool no one.

 

2 stuns and your immune. The only time that won't happen is if you are hit with 2 stuns within 1 second.

 

How would you propose BW change that system?

Edited November 7, 2012 by Capt_Beers

[Vacarius]

Resolve is poorly implemented. I'm sure it works how they want it to, but it sucks. Pretend it's great if you like, you fool no one.

 

He's not trying to defend the resolve system, merely asking you guys to use accurate figures in your complaints against it. Saying you were stunned for a mathematically impossible time doesn't help your case.

[TUXs]

2 stuns and your immune. The only time that won't happen is if you are hit with 2 stuns within 1 second.

 

How would you propose BW change that system?

Right. Stuns being the word that causes the confusion. CC's need to effect Resolve. ALL CC's imo.

 

Call CC's anything you want, the CC's in this game are the issue. The fact that Resolve ignores most CC's is THE major issue I have with it. Lower the CC break to 30sec, have EVERY CC add to Resolve, have full Resolve break any CC...I don't care what Bioware does to fix it, it needs to be FIXED!

 

He's not trying to defend the resolve system, merely asking you guys to use accurate figures in your complaints against it. Saying you were stunned for a mathematically impossible time doesn't help your case.

I never said that I was stunned for ANY length of time, nor have I ever stated any Resolve numbers - the only case I'm making is that I feel Resolve SUCKS! I truly don't care what mathematical formula anyone shows, that's how Bioware builds games - I know how the game PLAYS and CC's are out of **edit**ing control!!!

[Capt_Beers]

Right. Stuns being the word that causes the confusion. CC's need to effect Resolve. ALL CC's imo.

 

Call CC's anything you want, the CC's in this game are the issue. The fact that Resolve ignores most CC's is THE major issue I have with it. Lower the CC break to 30sec, have EVERY CC add to Resolve, have full Resolve break any CC...I don't care what Bioware does to fix it, it needs to be FIXED!

 

 

I never said that I was stunned for ANY length of time, nor have I ever stated any Resolve numbers - the only case I'm making is that I feel Resolve SUCKS! I truly don't care what mathematical formula anyone shows, that's how Bioware builds games - I know how the game PLAYS and CC's are out of **edit**ing control!!!

 

So you would want roots and slows added under the veil of CC and thus effected by resolve. Stuns, mezzs, pulls, KB's and knockdowns are what are currently effected by the resolve system adding roots and slows to that would significantly alter game play mechanics.

 

Melee characters would become "unstoppable wrecking balls" against ranged if they couldn't even be slowed by ranged to try and keep distance. A lot of abilities would become very situational as they have slows attached to them. Off the top of my head I can think of Unload/Full Auto (which would destroy Merc/Mando DPS in PvP once and for all) and TkT/Force Lightning. Those are not filler abilities for those classes either. They depend on those. Others that come to mind are Sever Force, Slow Time and Force Exhaustion.

 

I'm not trying to argue with you I just want to make sure I understand what you're saying.

[Kaisies]

Yesterday I watched 3 of our players being chain stunned in civil war at the turret by 2 cloaked shadows for 30-40secs waiting for resolve to get high enough to cc break out and not be restunned. Very, very funny but not what I want to see in PvP.

 

Hyperbole much?

 

- 2 Shadows Mind Mazing 3 players is impossible. A Shadow can only have one person Mind Mazed at a time. Once you use on someone else the first one breaks, but it still grants the full amount of resolve. It also only lasts 8 secs, so for those 2 Shadows to mezz someone for 30-40 seconds with that ability they would have to hit them with it 3-4 times. At 800 resolve per cast and a resolve cap at 1000 plus the bonus resolve you get for effects that grant immunity they would be looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of like 3200-4400 resolve which is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Lets say 3 players come at a node at the same time, with 2 shadows there that can coordinate (voice chat)

 

3 Enemies coming at node vs 2 Shadows

Let us ASSUME for THIS ARGUMENT and SIMPLICITIES SAKE 3 enemies (1, 2, 3) have no CC breaker currently.

 

0 Seconds - 1 and 2 are mezzed

2 seconds - 3 has reached node and begins capping

8 seconds - 1 and 2 come out of mez.

9 seconds - 3 is 7.0 / 8.0 seconds capping point. 3 Is Mezzed.

10 seconds - 1 and 2 reach node. 1 Is mezzed. 2 Begins cast on node.

17 seconds - 2 is 7.0 / 8.0 seconds capping point. 2 is Mezzed. 3 Comes out of Mez, begins capping point again. 3 Is CC Immune.

18 Seconds - 1 comes out of mez. 1 is CC Immune. 1 Begins capping point.

24 Seconds - 3 is 7.0 / 8.0 seconds, 1 is 6.0 / 8.0 seconds. Shadow 1 Casts deathfield, interrupting both players.

25 seconds - 2 Comes out of mez. 2 is CC Immune.

 

I dont think it was his intention to mean they were CC'd for that amount of time, just simply stating that 2 shadows vs 3 players on a node is imbalanced and needs to be adressed. Take this even further-

 

24 seconds - 1 and 3 both start channeling node again. Shadow 1 insta stealths.

25 seconds - 2 begins channeling node.

 

31 seconds - 1 and 3 are 7.0 / 8.0 seconds. 2 is 6.0 / 8.0 seconds. Shadow 2 casts deathfield. Interrupting all three players. All 3 players begin recasting channel. Shadow 2 restealths.

 

37 seconds - 1, 2, 3 are 6.0 / 8.0 seconds. It has been 20 seconds since 3 was CC Immune. 3 Is Mez'd.

38 seconds - 1 is 7.0 / 8.0 seconds. It has been 20 seconds since 1 was CC Immune. 1 Is Mez'd.

38 seconds - 2 is 7.0 / 8.0 seconds. It has been 13 seconds since 2 was CC Immune. 2 must be engaged. Shadow 1 casts force cloak and is CC Immune for 3 seconds.

40 seconds - It has been 15 seconds since 2 was cc immune. Shadow 1 throws a grenade, stunning 2 for 4 seconds.

41 seconds - Shadow 1 begins casting whirlwind on 2.

43 seconds - 2 Is whirlwinded, shadow 1 runs away.

45 seconds - 3 Comes out of Mez. Shadow 2 Mez's 3. 1 Comes out of Mez because of this, and begins channeling.

51 seconds - 2 comes out of Whirlwind. 2 begins channeling. 2 is CC Immune.

52 seconds - 1 is 7.0 / 8.0 seconds. Shadow 2 Mez's 1.

53 seconds - 3 comes out of Mez, begins channeling. 3 Is CC Immune.

58 seconds - 2 is 7.0 / 8.0 seconds. Shadow 1 engages 2 again.

60 seconds - 3 is 7.0 / 8.0 seconds. Shadow 1 engages 3.

60 seconds - 1 Comes out of Mez. 1 is CC Immune

 

you could continue speculating what happens after this, but there isn't much point in it. Regardless, something is very broken with stealth classes guarding nodes. That much can be seen. In the current state of the game, an assassin (operative) can guard a node and there is essentially no risk to him doing so. He can easily handle 1 or 2 players coming at him until help arrives, and (realistically, in an all players equal game, if 3 players come then the other engagement will end quickly)

 

Something needs to change. There needs to be a RISK for a stealth class to guard a node where 2 players have a reasonable chance at capping that node prior to help arriving.

 

my head hurts after typing all that.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Kaisies

[TUXs]

So you would want roots and slows added under the veil of CC and thus effected by resolve. Stuns, mezzs, pulls, KB's and knockdowns are what are currently effected by the resolve system adding roots and slows to that would significantly alter game play mechanics.

 

Melee characters would become "unstoppable wrecking balls" against ranged if they couldn't even be slowed by ranged to try and keep distance. A lot of abilities would become very situational as they have slows attached to them. Off the top of my head I can think of Unload/Full Auto (which would destroy Merc/Mando DPS in PvP once and for all) and TkT/Force Lightning. Those are not filler abilities for those classes either. They depend on those. Others that come to mind are Sever Force, Slow Time and Force Exhaustion.

 

I'm not trying to argue with you I just want to make sure I understand what you're saying.

 

I wouldn't "add them" - they are already there by definition. I'd simply stop pretending they aren't covered under "Crowd Control". How a ROOT isn't considered CC is beyond me...or a slow. ANY movement impairing effect is a CC. So yes, I'd include them in the things that add Resolve.

 

The only 2 toons I play and PvP with are a Commando and a Vanguard, so I'm well aware of what I'm asking for. For my Vanguard it would be a minor adjustment, but Commandos already need work. If this change were made, I'd suggest Grav Round (and charged bolts) be on a timer and instant, and Full auto be able to fire without being stationary. To counter, I would think a damage reduction while moving might work, but I don't trust the server sync to be able to account for that, so I'd leave it as it is.

 

Something needs to change with CC's. I'm open to any suggestions you have as well, but right now, the sheer number of CC's in this game is flipping crazy!

[Capt_Beers]

Lets say 3 players come at a node at the same time, with 2 shadows there that can coordinate (voice chat)

 

3 Enemies coming at node vs 2 Shadows

Let us ASSUME for THIS ARGUMENT and SIMPLICITIES SAKE 3 enemies (1, 2, 3) have no CC breaker currently.

 

0 Seconds - 1 and 2 are mezzed

2 seconds - 3 has ...

 

That is a bizarrely specific situation. It is possible but not likely. It would take a large amount of coordination on the Shadows part and an an insane amount of derp on the attackers part (seriously not even try to find the guy that just mezzed you, I guess assume he ran away?). I understand it's a hypothetical situation but it's an extreme one.

 

I don't think resolve is perfect but I don't think it's as bad as everyone says it is. Some improvements could certainly be made. One area for improvement would have to be how/when it begins to decay. They made a step in the right direction with it not decaying until the last effect was over however many times the effect ends because you are on your way back to the spawn. In all of the WZ's except Hutball and VS and only in very specific circumstances will your resolve actually be used (running right out of the door in both if your lucky and even more specifically in Hutball if the fight is anywhere near your spawn), it will most likely be drained by the time you get back to the fight.

 

If you died with full resolve your resolve shouldn't begin to drain until you enter combat again, at the very least it shouldn't start to drain while you have the deserter debuff (meaning you are still in the spawn). I believ that would be a very good improvement to the system. As it stands now you could be stunned back to back gain full resolve and die. At which point you respawn with at most 20 secs. of CC immunity stuck behind a door that has a 40 sec countdown on it. By the time you're out of that 40 sec door it may take you about another 5-10 secs. to get back in the mix and by then the same 2 players that stunned you before can stun you again as they should be off CD by now.

 

If your resolve at least waited for you to get out of the spawn to drain it would actually be useful. I would hope for until you entered combat since it's a long walk to the other side of the Huttball field, if that's where the fight is.

 

Can I get some feed back on this? Would this change your opinion of resolve at least a little bit?

Edited November 7, 2012 by Capt_Beers

[Quinlynn]

Two very simple fixes to the resolve system would make it work allot better.

 

1. Snares, Roots and Slows all contribute to the reslove and cannot be applied when resolve is full.

 

2. Use of the Stun Breaker skill, forces reslove full, for a short period of time of like 8 seconds.

 

IMHO.

[TUXs]

Can I get some feed back on this? Would this change your opinion of resolve at least a little bit?

 

It would change it a bit, but I don't think it's nearly enough...maybe it would be though. Hard to say without trying it.

 

I'm not going to say that Resolve wasn't a decent idea, it beats nothing by a long shot, I just don't think it's as effective as it needs to be. Bioware went CC crazy when they dolled out skills - the result of this is a cluster **edit** of CC's in PvP.

 

CC's have been the bane of this game since beta. The Resolve we have was (seemingly) built DURING beta due to the complaints so many had. Asking them to tweak a system that seems like it was an afterthought, doesn't seem like we're asking too much. It's a decent tool...it just needs fine tuning.

[Technohic]

I think the roots and snares adding to resolve goes too far. You can still heal and act under those. Even attack outside of melee classes, and melee classes should keep that in mind in stead of charging around in the open feeling invincible.. And many of them are curable.

 

There are also a lot of classes that depend on them and have at least one. Maruder has one to help keep from being kited, So does concealment operatives. Snipers, mercs and sages have them to try to keep others from getting too close. So it is not like you can't fight back and use your own to your advantage.

[Quinlynn]

I think the roots and snares adding to resolve goes too far. You can still heal and act under those. Even attack outside of melee classes, and melee classes should keep that in mind in stead of charging around in the open feeling invincible.. And many of them are curable.

 

There are also a lot of classes that depend on them and have at least one. Maruder has one to help keep from being kited, So does concealment operatives. Snipers, mercs and sages have them to try to keep others from getting too close. So it is not like you can't fight back and use your own to your advantage.

 

SWG had roots and snares and after ward a period of ~30sec in which another root or snare could not be applied.

 

PVP in this game was good and immunity work well. No reason it could no work here as well.

[Technohic]

SWG had roots and snares and after ward a period of ~30sec in which another root or snare could not be applied.

 

PVP in this game was good and immunity work well. No reason it could no work here as well.

 

Maybe it was just me, but SWG also seemed like just a button smash game anyway. Just mindless buff and zerg with a numbers game.

[TUXs]

Maybe it was just me, but SWG also seemed like just a button smash game anyway. Just mindless buff and zerg with a numbers game.

 

PvP had no objectives if that's what you mean, but it was no more of a "button masher" than this game is, nor is "zerging" a negative thing. Zerging means returning to fight more...how could that ever possibly be a bad thing?

 

And yeah...buffs in SWG were as bad as CC's are here. When SOE wanted to add something, they added a buff. When Bioware wants to add something, they add a CC.

[BobaStyx]

Maybe it was just me, but SWG also seemed like just a button smash game anyway. Just mindless buff and zerg with a numbers game.

 

Isn't that what SWTOR is becoming? Best gear + Best classes + omgzergfest? It's not like the known overtuned classes take alot of skill to overperform while some of the weaker AC's take much more time/effort to even get in the same ballpark, which some won't regardless of how skilled the player is.

 

Don't tell me if you get into a PvP wz and notice that you have 2 or 3 gunnery/arsenal specs in your midst along with some squishy sorc/sage dps that you don't shake your head knowing its going to be a long match if the other team has any number of the FOTM class/specs running rampant with WH gear.

[Technohic]

What I mean is, do you remember a lot of taking a position for strategy and holding your area in SWG? Or was it more of everyone running around in a big mass while sometimes you run closer to the other big red blob only to run out to the back of yours when you got in trouble.

 

A bunch of running around like chickens with their head cut off. Awesome LOS. And by LOS, I mean a completely different term as it meant that people couldn't hit you even if they saw you.

 

There are lots of things I miss about SWG, but lets not look at it with rose colored glasses while everyone complained and quit and came back and quit throughout its life.

[TUXs]

What I mean is, do you remember a lot of taking a position for strategy and holding your area in SWG? Or was it more of everyone running around in a big mass while sometimes you run closer to the other big red blob only to run out to the back of yours when you got in trouble.

 

A bunch of running around like chickens with their head cut off. Awesome LOS. And by LOS, I mean a completely different term as it meant that people couldn't hit you even if they saw you.

 

There are lots of things I miss about SWG, but lets not look at it with rose colored glasses while everyone complained and quit and came back and quit throughout its life.

 

Completely depends on the night, and the version. Pre-NGE, almost every fight was in a player owned base, so it made for some epic fights. The down side to this was the time between fights.

 

Post NGE, when we (Rebs) were outnumbered, we'd leave Restuss and force a fight somewhere else, usually the palace in Theed because it was easy to sucker Imps into the building where it had a narrow opening to enter and a massive atrium with stairs for us to hide on and take them out. They'd run in and die like lemmings jumping off a cliff. Fights here could last for a good hour while 8 Rebs took on 30 Imps. Imps would very commonly camp our bunker and gank the poor guy turning in his mission. Made for great fights as well.

 

Numbers mattered less than strategy in SWG. There were no "objectives", so there was no way for a stealth to know with certainty where you'd be and a fight could be in any town, around any corner, at the GTN, ANYWHERE...not just in one of the 4 boxes.